Star Wars vs Star Trek

But an overide can only be given after the actions take place. Unless the captain can predict the future, he/she wouldn't know of the Omega until after the ship's computor locks down and gives a report. Could there be a failsafe to only display the info after the battle without the total shutdown?

 

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Typically speaking, its the los Angelos class attack submarine that is famous for carrying Tomahawks, most other submarines CAN use it, its just that they dont typically do, ie, the seawolf is meant to hunt enemy ships and submarines, it is not typically equipped with a large complement of tomahawks, and even those are ship hunting cruise missiles.

And you really cant use the Ohio class submarine example because 14 out of the 18 are trident submarines that carry ballistic missiles and ONLY ballistic missiles.

The other four DO carry tomahawks, but they all have conventional payload. And no there is no way for a submarien underway to change from one kind of tomahawk to another because the only way to do that is at a naval base.

Los Angelos class attack submariens are the submarines that use tomahawks most effectively, they can launch them from torpedo tubes or 12 vertical launch tubes.

These are the subs you are probably thinking about because there are 31 of them where as there are only 4 ohios equipped with tomahawks, and let me stress again, they are NOT nuclear missiles.

To answer your question, a TASM, is a sub launched tomahawk programmed to hunt enemy ships, i believe it stands for Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile
P.S. why use nuclear tomahawk missiles when you can just launch a ballistic missile?

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Actually, that is untrue - our submarines do carry nuclear payloads for their toms, but they are not "active" and ready to go - they must be assembled and readied for launch at the notice of a JCOS command and requires both the CO and XO parameters to be used if I'm not mistaken.

And yes, TASM is an anti-ship tom, an awe inspiring weapon that compliments the Harpoon nicely.

As for why to have nuke toms - why not? TacNuke Toms are useful in their own right, and are cheaper than ICBM's. Plus they move faster and are harder to intercept, if I'm not mistaken.

The seawolf and virginia class both have VLS systems aboard - the LA is also a hunter/killer like the Seawolf, but is a much older SSN.

The Virginia, for example, has 12 "double stack" VLS tubes - in essence, it can carry 24 toms. It's actually a class of it's own, dubbed currently an NSSN - New attack Sub Surface Nuclear - it's a blue water, litoral (inshore) and open water attack platform able to carry out both hunt/kill, rescue, missile strike, observation, and SEAL Insertion missons. It's quite a sub I must say

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The CO can override if he anticipates it, or can override the lockdown before it takes effect. The lockdown is simply to prevent the information getting into the wrong hands because of the incredible power of the Omega Particle.

 

A nuke tom, has to be armed in port with a nuclear warhead i believe.

And no, it is actually significantly easier to intercept a cruise missile than to intercept an ICBM, it just like shooting down a small plane.

Which begs the question, what is the point of a TASM? The harpoon i believe moves faster and has a smaller cross section making it harder to shoot down, i guess the Tom may have range...

And the virginia is the solution to the seawolf problem. The seawolves are incredibly awesome subs and cost a crapload to make, the virginias use cheaper technologies so there can be more of them.

I actually got the chance to see a seawolf submarien in port in maine, it was quite a sight... not really... 70% of it was underwater

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Okaaay so since this is obviously turning into a discussion about cruise missiles and shit, that means Star Trek wins.

 

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So: for me it's a question of which universe violates more of TLOP. (The laws of physics)

Whichever violates more laws, (and gets away with it, they always do) that side will emerge victorious.

I say Barf from SpaceBalls rules the Fremen with his fist inside the Empire's glove, which in turn holds the Stargating Lightsaber of Subspace Frequencies.

 

The Virginia is an awesome sub in itself, but at a slightly different role. The Seawolf is/was designed to locate and remove threats along the lines of the Typhoon class SSBN - a double hulled titanium ship over 3x the length of a US Football field. It's sheer size and it's incredible armarment made it something even a mighty 633x designation LA Class (with the upgraded weapons platform and the BSY-3 sonar system) could not tackle. It could also outdive most of our torpedoes, including the Mk. 48 ADCAP.

 

First off, the term breaking a ships back refers to the very dificult skill used my submariners not cruise missiles.

It refers to the practice of shooting a torpedo ten feet below the draft of a ship and detonating it at the center of the ship. What would happen is that the air pocket would expand and lift up the center of the ship, and than the center collapses and rips the ship in two. It is a very dificult tactic but it really never fails. It is literally "breaking the ships back"

So you really cant do it with a missile.


It doesnt matter if the typhoon could outdive our adcaps, because they can only launch missiles within 130 feet (i think, it may have been meters) of the surface of the water, and that is well within range of the ADCAP.

And pretty much all munitions since world war 2 and even earlier that were anti ship, with the exception of torpedos, were made to punch through ship armour, have a delay, than explode. But that doesnt always do the trick. Take the Yamato for example, it took 10 torpedos and 7 bomb hits, and the only reason she sand was one hit a forward magazine.

 

This isn't a thread for discussing this, and I didn't want to be the one to say it's off topic but it has become pretty annoying. Seriously, because I don't care about any of that stuff and if I did, I wouldn't be looking to discuss it in a SW vs ST thread.

So I'm sorry but could we please stick to discussing the topic?

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trek wins end of story...

Stargate could probly beat trek ro wars, at the very msot trek or wars could never beat stargate.

 

What makes Stargate so threatening? I mean, there's been a lot of really dramatic battles in space movies and TV shows but not so much on Star Trek shows. Lot of people present the federation/dominion battle as a federation fail and I barely remember it mentioned cuzz DS9 was not my thing.. but for a good writer of large scale galactic wars, Im sure a really good Trek vs Gate could be imagined... Unless I just didn't watch enough Gate and missed something...

 

stargate has the advantage of even more innovation than star trek, do remember that the starships are created and boost technology thousands of years in the making, so they have been around much longer than fed ships.

And also remember, we have the advantage of mobility, we can fight you on one planet, run away, when you leave, we go back. Simple as that.

Worse case scenario, we just run to the other side of the galaxy no sweat. Or even to another galaxy.

It'll pretty much be like the US vs. Vietcong, with gate being vietcong, the fact is that sure you have ships and they are powerful, but they cant be everywhere at once, and everywhere your ships are is where we are not.

There are some pretty damn powerful weapons in gate anyways, look at drones.

 

IMO stargates are structures, and not by any means difficult to figure out. What's to stop others from using them? Or destroying them for that matter. And then not all planets have gates so say you want to go bother the Klingons... don't they have to have a gate? Then if anyone should fear enemies would come through the gate, just blow the damned thing up. I don't really see them as being a great advantage... like transporters.

"The Sikarians were known to use a folded-space transporter, relying on dimensional shifting rather than matter-to-energy conversion. Similarly, the Iconians perfected their own form of transport known as gateways which were capable of near instantaneous transport over vast distances."

So maybe start a thread about SG vs ST. Don't matter, just scramble the codes and junk like that one episode I think there was a virus or something that futz'd up their use if the gates.

 

Actually, modern torpedoes (Like the Mk 48 ADCAP) don't use a delayed warhead - they pierce the hull via a shaped charge - even if they don't hit directly, the overpressure wave is generally more than enough to severely damage a submarine. The typhoon is one class, however, that can survive this.

Another reason to use a TASM over a Harpoon - the Harpoon maxes at 60 nautical miles, compared to the TASM's 600 miles

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One interesting feature which you may find... well i dunno i suppose the term itneresting fits best... is that apparently the mk 48 can actually run parallel to enemy subs or ships and when it reaches what it think is just ahead of the midsection, it makes a 90 degree turn straight into the core of the submarine, and the armor at the front or sides of a sub are minimal even on a typhoon, even if a typhoon withstood the torpedo, there is really no way it could launch its missiles succesfully.

But the term breaking a ships back actually refers to the keel of the ship which is typically 15 feet under water, so yes technically you can detonate ordnance in a ship and break the keel, most of that ordnance is in the core of the ship and is very hard to get to, and this is assuming you get a lucky shot and actually hit the ordnance centers. Anyways, chaff would easily deflect missiles, the reason why is because missiles do not lock on to their target ships until about 10 nautical miles away from the ship. The operation of an anti ship missile works somewhat like this.

1.) missile fired
2.) missile proceeds to the pre directed heading (but is not locked onto enemy ship).
3.) at a pre set distance (usually 10 nm away from enemy ship) the missile arms.
4.) Missile searches with seeker cone for closest target (this is where chaff can wreack havoc on missile)
5.) missile locks on, accelerates to attack speed.
6.) missile impacts the ship and soona fter detonates.


Also, the stargates are incredibly dificult to destroy, and considering that most worlds with stargates have no user manual in which to use them, it would take too much time for trek to figure it out, and even if they did use it, theyd be resigning their only advantage which is ships.

 

Also, the most overlooked fact about submarines is that they cannot receive radio messages while submerged, so even if a typhoon was sent a message, it would have to go to persicope depth to take on any messages, and than dive back down to fire missiles, and a seawolf probably would have checked its own radio too, at which poitn it would be told to engage and destroy the typhoon, and the typhoon would never have a chance to fire its missiles.

 

2.) I asked nicely!!

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Destroying a stargate is incredibly difficult? Why would you think that? Am I just supposed to take your word for it? Anyway, I've heard them mention 'burrying' a gate. Whatever works, dude.

As for the user manual thing... fine. We'll just go with 'no gates on any ST planet of strategic importance.' So they're useless for anything other than escape from some planet that DOES have a gate. Pointless argument,useless structures. It would be down to heads up starship battles. Trek wins, game over.

 

trek couldnt win against gate. The worst that could happen is a tie. Last time i checked, trek vessels can barely make it from one end of the galaxy to the other, let alone across two galaxies, our vessels can cross from one galaxy to another in around 4 months.

Anyways the replicators would KICK YOUR ASS.

 

Actually, this is untrue - most modern subs have what is called a "floating wire" thru which they can RECIEVE messages, but not send. They can also be reached DEEP underwater via ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) Radio, though it takes several seconds to send one character of a message via this frequency.