Star Wars vs Star Trek

Fascists always lose.

 

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yes, but then nobody can win because everybody loses in the end.

 

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I can't understand.

 

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it's easy to decide who wins a war on a short term, but who really knows who really won in the long perspective.

Germany lost ww2 but at the same time it caused germany to become the most powerful country in europe together with france. because the UK won.

see?

nothing is easy

 

...

Bullshit.

 

It's all in the EU.

 

The USA won and Germany lose. Obviously in 70 years a lot of things can change... But this is not interesting.

 

Currently, the most powerful countries in the world are the UK and the US, respectively. Our two nations have weapons that, literally, could rip the earth to the very core and exterminate all life on the planet, 99% of it still highly classified. (ever heard of Ice Fortess, or Angel? Didn't think so)

Back on topic - the force abilities in the EU are nothing, and they mean nothing. We don't see them in the movies, and in fact, we see a lot that disputes them.

A) Precognition - why didn't Mace Windu know Anikin was going to betray him?
Why didn't the emporer know Vader would betray him?

B) Massive Telekinesis - why don't we see Jedi able to stop themselves falling to their death? EG- Obi Wan during the betrayal of the clones, Mace Windu being knocked off the tower after Palpatine zapped him, Obi Wan and Anikin in the damaged droid cruiser trying to land HALF the bloody ship? All those times, the ability to use superior telekinesis would have been helpful to say the least.

C) Crushing planets - if your super-powered jedi could crush a planet, why is it that we've only EVER seen Windu crush so much as a Droid, and even then, not completely?

 

Because these powers wouldn't fit into the movies.

 

That doesn't matter mate - you can't simply ignore the fact that they have shown, time and again, the INABILITY to do amazing feats like that. As the movies are higher cannon, they override the books - in other words, the Jedi are all but Impotent.

 

Which never happens in the movies. The times that the Jedi could have used that ability to save their asses is countless. Even in the Clone Wars, when they are in very real peril, they don't use that ability. And these Jedi are considered absurdly strong in some cases, such as Yoda, Palpatine, and Anakin. Yet never, ever do we see this.

That's rather telling, don't you think?

 

Actually the 501st are vaders elite and wear black armor.

 

Exactly.

 

That's funny, I don't recall seeing black armor in Battlefront II, which just so happened to follow the 501st up till their massive loss at Endor...anyone care to explain that?

 

no scott the 501st are indeed Vaders elite but they have white armor. maybe you should look at 501st.com ???? we have a lot of TK's in our club and they are all white.

 

It seems to me that you are right... They were the guys who boarded the Tantive IV in the first movie.

 

What is the most feared species in Star Wars? Nothing I've seen is even slightly scary. And the best mental power they have is The Force? I hardly consider Yoda moving Luke's fighter out of a swamp comparable to Kes hurling Voyager 10 thousand light years across the galaxy.

But lets talk strategic scenarios. Janeway is godmother to Q's son. Federation has the timeship Relativity. We'll just chalk those up as two situations where Star Wars never stood a chance. But lets go best out of 5, right? Treks best psychics keep track of the Jedi movements and assist the Founders in avoiding detection as they infiltrate strategic locations and sabotage their shield grid. (If Han, Luke, Obi Wan,Chewy and 2 droids can wander around on the Death Star, its safe to say shape shifters won't have a problem.) ...and then a transwarp conduit opens and a probe comes through and self-detonates, scattering millions of nanoprobes all over everything. Assimilation tactics 101.

In Universe vs Universe, Trek has way too many seasons of invented technologies and species. Star Wars could gather its best and any Trek fan can easily name 3 species that could handle them remotely without ever being in harms reach. And the nature of the Borg species is that they cannot be stopped. You can win encounters, you can hold them off maybe for awhile, but you can't kill all of them and they only need 1 to reproduce. Their numbers are high enough that individual encounters would hardly play into their strategy so much as conquering every inhabited planet in the system and take one system after another. But if they WANT to assimilate the Death Star, the Empire would spend the rest of its existence fighting until the battle was lost. They come, they adapt, they assimilate, period.

Anyway, the biggest deciding factor in all this is Star Wars is straight-up battle - the most firepower wins. Star Trek is usually about finding weaknesses and exploiting them, or out-thinking the opponent. They've out-witted oponents time and time again, much stronger, larger numbers, anything that could be imagined and entertaining for us over the 40+ years of shows and movies, they've presented it and showed us how if we put our minds to it, we can think of a way to beat the odds. Seems to me the Star Wars storyline never really presented good strategy or smart thinking... just brute force tactics. If that's the show they bring to the table, Trek still wins. Janeway, Voyager, Q, Mrs Q and son, Seven, her nanoprobes, a halographic doctor, transporter technology and time manipulation. Don't think guns will even play a part in this war, sorry to say.

 

Indeed alpinedigital - here's how it'd go down, Borg vs Star Wars:

Borg cube encounters ISD fleet- gets destroyed in seconds, but broadcasts threat locations and weapons/defenses information via the collective mind- next cube comes in, completely immune to their weapons and assimilates them. Now, all locations of all Star Wars known worlds are known to the collective. They dispatch five cubes to every planet in the known Galaxy and mass assimilation ensues - if they can't simply blow away defensive positions, they ram them, using their incredibly massive, dense vessels as weapons themselves to smash the defenses.

End result - hundreds of trillions of new Borg drones, and Borg w/ Hyperdrive technology.

 

However Kes is one of a kind and quite Dead by now. Also Yoda was one of the most powerful of the Old Jedi. Of the New Jedi 12 appretices of Lukes flung a fleet of 30 stardestroyers out of an entire solar system with such force that the ships were crippled. Luke expanded a singularioty to envelope a ship, created a perfect working copy of his wifes ship from dust,
cast mind affecting illusion on the most powerful sith lord ever. There are monks that can instantly transport multiple Star Destroyers from one edge of the Galaxy to the other and so on. Anything done in Trek is far outstripped in SW.

Janeway is godmother to Q's son? So what she was going to die sooner or later anyways. To the Q her lifespan was pathetically short anyways and if she can;t handle herself why save her.

The time ship Realitvity, Sorry but that Deus Ex Machina only works if you assume ST wins. It also assumes the ship is thousands of years more advanced than current Fed tech (it isn't). Since neither is guaranted it is just blown out of the water.

The reason Luke, Han and Chewy were able to blithely wander around is that Tarkin and Vader planned on letting them go and lead them to the rebels. That whole rescue and narrow escape was a trap from moment one. So basing all secuirity on this is just borderline idiocy and you are not an idiot.

Nanoprobes might be able to assimiliate people, but likely not the hyper advanced Tech of SW. And you would have to assimiliate the right people to get the tech know how. God forbid to try to nano probe certain species or any force Sensitive. Just imagine what Luke would do to the Queen. "We are Borg, we service the Jedi Council. Resistance is futile."

Actually we can name several species that you would have no hope against. There are species and races in SW that are so deadly and competent in their fileds that ST does not have an equivalent. The technology of SW is also far beyond even the ancinet Voth of ST. Borg are no threat becuase they just don;t have the power generation capabilities to adapt and resist the weapons of SW. Yes a Cube can adapt and resist the firepower of a Galaxy class Star ship. However the main guns of a ISD produce far more power each than the entire GCS produces total. To put it in better terms the Borg cubes are wearing second chance standard kevlar vests rated to stop firearms upto and including .45ACP. However the SW ISD is using 120mm cannons loaded with HEAT or APSDU rounds. There is no contest here.

Actually the deciding factor is Strategic speed. SW has it in spades. What good is Transporters and Nimble ships when suddenly without any arning a moon sized battle station appears above Earth fires once and then the planet is gone. Just as suddenly the moon sized battle station hyperspaces back out faster than any of you scanners could even lock on to the vessel.

 

The earth club 501st dresses in white, however in the EU the 501st wear black they are a unit with sole loyalty to Vader and NOT the Emperor. They are the best unit in the Empire as they cross train with Vader Noghri commando. The unit on Endor was the Emperor Guard second best unit in the Empire but the difference between 501st and Emperor Guard is like the diffence between a SEAL and a Marine. Both will kick your ass, but we all know the SEAL will take the Marine.