The Secret [movie]

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by S.A.M., Jul 19, 2009.

  1. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    Statistical Backup.

    I'm just about done here. There clearly IS a legitimate community of scholarly professionals and educated people that just have a different point of view.

    People of science are so unmerciful with people of religion for being "brainwashed" and indocrinated, and not being open minded enough to LOOK at what they have been taught all their lives. . . and yet, they refuse to consider that perhaps, they may have the very same affliction. :shrug:

    The thing is, I am not even talking about some anthropomorphized "god" here. This is universal. These consciousness principles would hold true and be the same for any sentient being any where in the galaxy, it needn't be considered a "religion" or a "philosophy" or anything of the sort. It is merely an explanation for the existence of consciousness and thought. Eventually, there will only be so much more that can be understood about the physical third dimension until these principals are begun to be understood.

    Your resistance to understanding and being educated about the interaction of parapsychology with the physical world, and the complete denial in the face of mounting and historical empirical evidence strikes me as just down right obstinate and somewhat ignorant. Sorry, that's just my point of view. It doesn't matter at this point. I know, that from here on out, I will only encounter a case of "raising the bar" to satisfy you. I needn't bother.
     
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  3. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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  5. Gustav Banned Banned

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    mmm
    so obviously traumatized
    poor little lucy

     
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  7. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    Well, as it now seems, it came up didn't it? He apparently does make useful contributions now, doesn't he? I wouldn't have had to have gone through the tediousness of reposting the scientific results of the TM experiment if you had just read them when he posted them, right? No, you were ignorant of them and we had to go over it pages later in the thread. YOU brought up the meditation topic with S.A.M again, when statistical evidence was already presented linking the methods of the secret with excellent scientific methodology, probably the best piece of evidence in the whole thread. And you missed it because you have him on ignore. Why? Because of your ego and your emotions. Love and Fear Ms. Snow, Love and Fear. They caused you to look foolish in this instance, and YES, you did miss quite a bit. Not too wise if you ask me. . . . . not too wise.
     
  8. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    No. There isn't anything I want to know from him thanks. I am quite capable of having a conversation with others and ignoring him and still getting through a thread. Sam and I were not discussing statistics

    Look foolish

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    This coming from the guy who posted the rice and alien theory.

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    Listen I don't care about the stats Eso. I'm not interested. I was discussing something with Sam I wasn't really in a conversation with either you or the fly. So stop trying to create emotion where there is none.
     
  9. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    Listen Ms. Snow, I addressed S.A.M., you made one of your snide know it all comments towards me about meditation which was IGNORANT AND WRONG, had you read Gustav's post, you would have known that. THAT is the point. End of story, mmmkay?
     
  10. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Stop calling me ms. snow. You can call me lucy or lucysnow.

    we didn't discuss medtation it at length so you don't know what I know or do not know. I don't care who you think is ignorant, its your opinion and it doesn't amount to much in a place like this. As far as Gustav is concerned...well I am not concerned with Gustav he can be here or not be here and its entirely irrelevant to me.
     
  11. Gustav Banned Banned

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    hehe
    i used to call her lucywhore

    /ashamed
     
  12. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    hmmm.. . . . you are so particular, aren't you? you have no problem addressing me, "eso" and yet, should I address you anything but what you prefer? hmmm :bugeye:

    Seems good for the goose is not good for the gander? I never said anyone was ignorant, did I? I merely pointed out an opinion was MISINFORMED and would not have been had you not been callow, o.k.?

    Really, I do hold you, your intelligence, and your contributions in the highest regard. In fact, I quite like you.

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    I wish to cease this petty bickering here with at once.

    I am grateful for the attention and the consideration that you give to my posts, in all due regard, that they should even make you ponder for one moment, they you should take a moment of your precious day, is more than I could ask. Your world view and grasp on reality is, as it would seem, rock solid, and beyond challenge in anyway. You are clearly here to dissuade others of their beliefs. Good for you.

    What is it YOU believe? Is it only what the corporate funded institutions of higher learning and research, the corporate media, and the corporate funded governments tell you is the official truth in our society? You do know, the corporate interest is to have people consume, so the paradigm they are interested in constructing and having the people maintain, at all levels, is a strictly consumer/material one, yes?

    To vehemently attack people that look at anything outside of this paradigm makes you a puppet of those who are the masters of this paradigm. You really should look at who really benefits the most from this. Unfortunately, just like a child that was raised in a fundamentalist church their entire life, and just cannot see that their entire thinking process has been bought and paid for, you will not see, your world view for what it is, inherently hostile to anything that threatens markets, trading, extracting resources, war, shopping, etc. the entire paradigm, as a way of life.
     
  13. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    You never complained about being called Eso.

    No I am not here to dissuade anyone. Asking critical questions of another poster isn't meant to dissuade, its done to me I do the same to others, its part of why we are here.

    You know you seem to make a lot of assumptions about what others believe without the slightest investigation, you also assume to know what shapes another's belief which doesn't get you anywhere really.

    Attacking ideas isn't attacking people. You take things way too personally about people who are largely indifferent and I say indifferent because at the end of the day I couldn't care less if you believe there's a ufo waiting for you behind the Hale-Bopp comet. We don't know each other we come here and we throw out our ideas, we exchange, we sometimes learn new things or whatever. Its an internet forum and we are not going to convince each other of anything. Sam knows that she isn't going to turn atheists into theists and they know she isn't going to listen to their point of view regarding religion, Its all verbal sparring Eso nothing more.

    You don't know my world view Eso its that simple, you simply make assumptions and accusations. You're being silly not to mention pompous as you pretend to know that which you do not know, which is who I am, what I know and what I believe. Now go and eat some flax you strike me as being a little constipated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  14. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I see, so the idea was just to throw this guy's name at me, and then if I had legitimate disputes with his scientific assertions, you can just tell me he worked at CERN and is smarter than me. Great plan, real fair after all your complaints that I was just going after the messengers and not the message. If being at CERN is all it takes to be correct about quantum physics, why don't all physicists believe this stuff? The fact is I have lots of friends working on projects for CERN right now, projects important enough that my university actually plays for them to fly down to Switzerland and discuss things at the actual lab on a regular basis. I myself could have chosen to work for CERN on one of their particle detectors, but I chose to do a project that at the moment is based at Stanford's SLAC accelerator, with whom Dr. Hagelin claims to have also worked.

    No, it is in fact sad that all these physicists in the TM movement, despite the fact that many of them actually do have a decent education in the field, have decided to shun some of the most basic principles in quantum mechanics. They talk about entanglement between particles as if this phenomenon can be used to transmit healing thoughts. So whether you can grasp this or not, I'm just going to come out and say what's wrong with the entanglement concept put forth in all these newage attempts to connect science and spirituality. Everyone who's studied quantum mechanics knows it's impossible for thoughts, messages, or any kind of information whatsoever to be transmitted through this means. It's already been proven that entanglement causes signals to move faster than light, but quantum randomness prevents these signals from carrying any sort of communicable information. If it were possible to control entanglement in a way that could affect the signal being sent, as the newage movement advocates, information would be communicated faster than light, and Einstein's relativity shows that in this case there would be ways of actually setting up time paradoxes like the grandfather paradox. So yeah, I've never heard of someone picking up a newspaper and reading that someone has already gone back in time and killed their grandfather before they were born, but that's the kind of effect that could in principle be achieved if The Secret were actually true.

    I haven't accepted anyone named Jesus as my lord and saviour. If this Jesus fellow wants to come discuss it with me, he's welcome to come over to my apartment and show me his miracles in person.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Funny too that Dr. Hagelin is supposed to get credit and reverance for having worked at CERN, as just one of the tens of thousands of physicists who have done so in the past. If you're allowed to use CERN to back up his credibility, then can I use the fact he was in a Ramtha School of Enlightenment propaganda film to dismiss him?
     
  16. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    So I'm supposed to believe in the reliability of a self-published study conducted by the TM movement? No peer review in a mainstream scientific journal? I don't just take people's word for it when they make extraordinary claims, I told you from the start I'd be very skeptical of anything that couldn't be independently verified. Why shouldn't I be? Why should I just believe whatever other people tell me when it's something that would completely alter my fundamental outlook on life, why should I just take their word for it?

    And have you seen me call you brainwashed? My personal opinion is that you're badly misinformed, but I'm open enough to the possibility I could be wrong about some of these things, as I'm only human. No, I think I'm being very fair and open here, discussing the actual ideas and their scientific merit/lack thereof, and I even go into details showing where the principles you advocate fall short. Don't like the points I'm making? Then give me proper scientific reasons to change my viewpoint, or we can stop now and agree that science up to this point doesn't say anything in support of a spiritual worldview.

    Regardless of how well-meaning your intention is here, you're making extraordinary claims, and you need to cite extraordinary, reliable evidence to back it up. You can dispute the existence of radio if you want, but you would easily be proven wrong. I'm disputing the scientific assertions being made by books like The Secret, and if these things are so blatantly obvious and self-evident, it should be easy to prove or provide a simple means of proving that these things are actually true. Quantum physics looks all mysterious and trippy even to someone like myself who's used it in actual calculations, and I can see how it would seem exciting and promising from a spiritual perspective. So when they put together a fancy video with some computer graphics and go "Oooooo, look how spooky and strange this all is, it must be proof of Hinduism", it's made to seem overwhelmingly convincing to the layman, but most educated scientists can see right through the bullshit from the very beginning.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  17. Gustav Banned Banned

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    elaborate on the criticism

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    ovid

    journal info
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  18. Gustav Banned Banned

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    you may of course keep ranting hysterically if you so desire
    'lil lucy will keep you company in this cacophony of bleats and brays

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  19. Gustav Banned Banned

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    dont
    read the goddamn thing already and report back your findings
    i am curious to find out how rigorous the methodology actually is

    hop to it right smartly, mr scientist
    thanks
     
  20. Gustav Banned Banned

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    since those bastards at csicops will not allow me to access "Voodoo Science and the Belief Gene", i shall link the book, “Voodoo Science: The Road from Foolishness to Fraud” from which it is excerpted

    google books

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    and again....voodoo rebuttal
     
  21. Gustav Banned Banned

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    now
    lets take a look at the pseudoskeptic, robert l park. this most eminent beacon of truth and slayer of crackpots

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    images can be clicked for source

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    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  22. Gustav Banned Banned

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    ere
    fair and balanced and whatnot

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    park's # 1 fanboy
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I have no trouble believing that practice in self-discipline and adoption of moderate behaviors might extend life or improve health.

    I also have no difficulty in seeing how the mentally ill, the severely depressed, the risk-prone and socially outcast would be more likely to suffer more and die younger, as well as being less likely to be stable members of the local church.

    And of course the effects of the proximity of a group of believers fall on the isolated among the neighbors more strongly.

    These factors would operate most effectively within a given culture. The non-religious tend to suffer from the proximity of the religious more than vice versa, for example. Like riders in SUVs being safer on the highway - they are, because (among other reasons) they endanger other motorists in a variety of ways to improve their own safety. Religion operates as an arms race, occasionally. There are corporations in my area that screen for religious belief in a variety of ways, for example, with the reward for correct belief and practice being access to considerable wealth and other factors strongly correlated with extended lifespan and better health.

    So a better comparison might be between cultures. Do we see this extension of life and improvement in health among the more strongly theistic cultures, compared with the less? Do the populations of countries more strongly believing in the efficacy of prayer and the physical effects of mental attitudes enjoy positive physical - measurable by observer - benefits?
     

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