What is the goal of integrating mentally retarded people in normal schools?

All of your other arguments I simply disagree with. Nothing more is required since you haven't stated anything factual.

 

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I think you washed your font on a too high temperature.

 

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i think i have discovered what you are now...
a thread killer.
hhmmm.....

 

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I love it when people go back in time to diagnose those with a disorder that was first discovered by a pediatrician in 1944. Its interesting since no one would advocate someone diagnosing themselves nor others on off-the-cuff observation.

The make the list and then add this caveat:

NOTE: Also included are famous people for whom there is a lot of speculation that they have or had Aspergers Syndrome, but who may not have (or have had) Aspergers at all.

 

Well, not wanting to go back and read all posts, ....have we arrived at any valid reason for integrating the mentally and physically retarded kids into normal schools?

Baron Max

 

It works.

 

To do what??

Baron Max

 

Baron Max, do you think it would be fair if a school excludes you of their classes because they think that physically handicapped folks should get into a special school? Taking into account that your mentally fully capable of competing with the physically normal children.

 

Normal, public school should be for normal, public kids with normal, public lives in normal, public environments.

Our schools systems often accept kids with disabilities and retardation such that those kids, with their problems, will never, ever be able to take care of themselves in any way or fashion. In other words, they're a burden on the state practically from birth all the way to death ....and you, somehow, think that that's fair???

Baron Max

 

They're also fruits of our society and therefore we sure as Hell ought to take care of them to the fullest extent.
First thing that you need to realise is, that those disabled folks didn't choose to be like that. And I'm sure that all of them, if given the choice between being born disabled or not disabled they'd all go for the latter.
Secondly, you claim that they're a burden to our state...this may be true, but then we'd also need to get rid of all the normal people who are physically and mentally up-to-par yet are completely unwilling to contribute anything meaningful to our society. No, instead of contributing they're just taking. Not working and receiving money from the State.

Personally it pains me more having to support those lazy fat asses out there. I'd much rather see my money spent on folks who didn't even have a choice in the first place.

 

Well, I don't know what "fullest extent" means, but basically I agree. The difference is that you want to put them in with the "herd", and I want to have them put into institutions that are more capable of caring for them until they die. ...and not disrupting the herd or contaminating the gene pool.

And that matters ....how?

The disabled offspring of wild animals didn't choose to be born that way, but when the parents realized that they couldn't care for them, they left them to die ....as it should be. If they can survive without special help, then fine.

I agree. Let's get rid of those people, too. There's too freakin' many people in the world anyway ...kill off a few and thin the herd. That will also solve lots of other problems in the world ...like pollution, over-population and starvation.

Why spend it at all? You nor I had anything to do with the choice to have the disabled kid, why should you and I have to support it? To hell with it, let it die ...or be cared for by it's parents.

Baron Max

 

May God help you find back to your more compassionate nature.
In nomine Patris et fillii et spiritus sancti *lifts arms in a histrionic fashion* --Amen.

Jokes aside. Is it so hard for you to bear the sight of disabled folks? One thing you don't seem to understand is that there are various levels of disabilities, and not all do have such a serious impact on the learning capabilities of a given individual. There are some physically handicapped children who are potentially more intelligent than some normal children, and definitely don't need to be put into a special institution. I've got the impression that by throwing all the disabled folks into special institutions our society is trying to hide its weaknesses such as imperfection.

Including disabled folks into our normal society doesn't automatically imply that we're going to make sex feasts where everybody can have a quickie with one of them. Other than that not all disabilities stem from genetical mutations...

The funny thing in all of this is, that you'd probably have a completely different opinion if one of your children was disabled, or if you yourself were.

 

So "compassion" is the tendency to place extra burdens on ones own society in order to care of only a few members of that society?

If they can function as normal kids, doing normal kid-things, then it's just fine with me. But if they can't or if they disrupt the normality of the schools, then they should be institutionalized (or the parents can care for them forever).

Persons with special interests should NEVER pe permitted to make laws or rules for the society! In fact, I think you'll find that legal judges, etc are required to recuse themselves if such is the case ....just for that reason!

Baron Max

 

It isn't all that big of a burden if I'm honest. It creates a lot of job opportunities.

Good thing that you finally mention this, because prior to that you did seem to throw all disabled folks into the same cup.

About the latter, you're probably right to some extent.

 

this debate seems to ignore the question of ethics.

i find that quite interesting.

here is the question in a more "normal" setting.

why should average children be allowed to go to a school for higher than average children and be a burden on them and their education, future, finances, time and waste all the resources that would be put to far better use ?

why is it that society at large do not support streamed schools so the higher intellect children may avoid being burdened by all the masses of average children who drag down the ones who really can and do want to learn ?

that to me seems to be the most important question that encompasses the same moral and ethical debate as the thread topic question.

"pet the retard"(allow integration of special needs children into the daily lives of normal function children) is indeed a beneficial thing for children as they grow if you wish them to grow up with empathy and compassion for the human condition.
however...
if you wish to just train little clones with no real emotional intelligence then you need a school that is clone like.

note; every thing is retarded.

 

It enhances the lifes of both handicapped and able bodied/mentally astute children and promotes tolerance and integration.

(And before you ask, no! You go find the ruddy evidence yourself. It won;t convince you. It never does.)

 

I do not know if you realised but we are all actually retarded when it comes to understand what is actually going on in nature as well as in human universe. Even now, our economy, science, resources, calculations and many other things are made by computers. Because we do not have this capacity. We are capable of doing hand made crafts, arts and gossip, that's all. Our current system already put us into a retarded situation. Before, everything was controlled by nature, now and in the future it will be more and more machines. We are discussing who is more or less retarded, that's all.

 

Baftan, who created those computers and machines?

 

Humans created those computers and machines, so what, nature created humans but nature do not have a full scale control over its creation. What's your point?

 

That's not the same. We created those computers and machines consciously to improve our life, to help us handle it faster, more accurately, better the communication level, etc. Plus, so far, we still do have control over our technological creations. If you can prove otherwise I stand corrected.
Nature didn't create us consciously.