I respect what Hitler accomplished

Perhaps, but was he admirable?

 

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I belive he was admirable for his abiliteas if slightly odd. He is the best of his group. I admire him for what he did and i belive that everyone can be admired for their acts melevolent or benighn for their pure ingenuity.

 

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Wow, there's a topic for a thread: Mass Murderers as objects of admiration.
Maybe we should start a Yorkshire Ripper fan club....

 

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wow, the sarcasm meter is of the scale... but i still apreciate the things they all did. BTW i am vaugley proud of doing things with as fewer moral conotations as possable so on the bare bones they way they didnt get caught is ingeneous or ont he other hand shows how stupid some murderers are to get caught so easily.

 

Nope, your sarcasm meter is faulty.
I'm seriously thinking of starting a thread on the subject.

 

Amphetamines alter your behaviour and what not thus influence your actions. Ever tried it? You should, then you might understand that what John99 said isn't as far-fetched as you make it sound like. You're right when you say that Hitler's notions were already present before the speed consumption, however you're completely on the wrong road if you claim that addiction to speed doesn't influence one's reasoning and actions. It suffice to see what some people do under the influence of alcohol...and here we're just talking about...alcohol. And, from personal experience, I've seen what people do under the influence of pervitin, and taking that into consideration it truly is possible that with Hitler's alleged messianic complex, manic behaviour, easily influenced mind, paranoia, and dictatorial position, that a person like that would make such drastic measures to destroy ethnicities, groups of a certain ideology, etc. that supposedly threaten his existence, the existence of Germans and des Dritten Reiches.

If you don't think that it impairs your mind and functions then look at this web of a spider that was under the influence of amphetamines: http://www.amphetamines.com/pervitin-spiders.html

Really, your insults towards John99's intelligence were absolutely uncalled for. But if you think that by insulting other people's intelligence without solidly backing up your disagreement against their theories, and so forth, you'll sound any smarter than them then you're mistaken, again. It doesn't require a high IQ to come off as a prick on an internet forum.

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Now coming to the critical part concerning you and me:

Since you seem to be slightly disappointed about me not having particularly validated your "effort" you've put into your meagre research about Hitler quotes. I'll endeavour to explain to you why I actually didn't.

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... "
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity...."
Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."
"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity <is> the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State."
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."
”
“
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics."

Those quotes you've presented are from Hitler's Politisches Testament, and the thing is...this book is based on partially fake Bohrmann Diktate by Monsieur Genoud who falsified, added, removed, altered bits and pieces, plus the mistranslations from French into English, etc.

Here, the following links will go into it in a more detailed fashion about the faking of the Bohrmann Diktate:
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2002/nov02/carrier.php
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/docs/Testament/byGenoud.html

I will not deny that Hitler criticised the Church though. It is true that he was discontent with a few things concerning the Church's hierarchy and weaknesses as I've already mentioned before, but in spite of this, he was still a die-hard Christian. Also you should realise that Church and religion are not the same words and shouldn't be confused with each others.

Also, on this very occasion I'd like to quote Mister Krueger:
"So here's what evidence we have. There is a certain worldview, Nazism. Its leader, Hitler, professes on many occasions to be religious, and he often states that he's doing the will of god. The majority of his followers are openly religious. There is no evidence anywhere that this leader ever professed to anyone that he is an atheist. He and his followers actively campaign against atheism, even to the point of physical force, and this leader allies himself with religious organizations and churches. This is the evidence. So where does atheism fit in?"

On a side note: I actually wanted to expand my response a bit more since you've been quite a mischievous fellow. Yes, I've noticed your funny joke about me being the living proof that Hitler's rhetorical skills are persuasive. I wanted to point out that this response of yours was in reaction to the quotes I've posted. Seemingly you completely disregarded that half of those quotes were from Mein Kampf solidly balanced out with a few excerpts of his speeches, and even one private confession to his general. I'd be glad if you'd at least attempt to properly read through the posts you want to respond to before actually clicking on "Submit Reply".

 

Oy.

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Not the point.

Very simply, Tiassa. It would be much the same way they occupied the rest of Europe: isolate the opposition, threaten their noncombatant population base, and generate collaborative institutions to take the pressure off their combat and control units. You are perhaps familiar with the surprising amount of jackbooting they did until about 1942? Ah: insurgency, you ask? SS Partisanjaegers and a hundred executed civilians for every one German dead, I answer. Don't overestimate the perseverance of the American public.

 

Not really. He managed to unite the right wing military and the right wing capitalists into backing his coup and was able to hide deep economic flaws through autocratic control and war. Germany would have had quite a nice set of social and economic problems if it had actuall survived long enough to see them. Its no different that what happens over and over in the third world today. Dictators male a breif splash while raping the country and then run or die as it collapses.

Not really. Nothing he did was sustainable.

Only you can force yourself to be a racist.

He was a tactical idiot who had the early advantage of fighting like a rabid weasle, peace time build up, lying like a psychopath, and launching sneek attacks. While these produced early gains it also steeled the reserve of those fighting him and gained them new and unlikely allies, like the us and soviet union.

It doesn't matter why you lost the war. Only that you lost it. But in this case it was blinding stupidity and a complete disregard and lack of understanding of human nature.

no Historians do.

His technology wasn't appreciably better than any one else and his manufacturing sucked. None of his advances and any significance except for inspiring the allies to fight harder.

He had some tactical advantages early on, but failed to adjust as the war went on and those were neutralize by his more adaptive enemy, as shown in the battle of Kursk.
http://www.2worldwar2.com/kursk.htm
write up of the t-34
http://www.2worldwar2.com/t-34-tank.htm

Perhaps the best endictment of him was the battle of Stalingrad where 1 million civilians died refusing to surrender to him despite horrenous conditions. If you make yourself so odious that civilians will endure that kind of fighting through the Russian winter rather than surrender, you cannot win.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/battle_of_stalingrad.htm

You've let yourself be seduced by the glitz and you are ignoring the substance.

 

Hmm, what would I do different.

He could probably have had better success staying east. Keep Czechoslovakia, Poland and Austria, then move into Hungary and turkey. Then stop and consolidate. As long as he doesn't attack France or England, they might declare war but they won't do anything and he has enough to support his ports and airspace. With Italy and Spain he has effective control of the Mediterranean and he is right on top of oil, which he desperately needs.

When Japan attacks the US renounce the act and break with Japan, a totally useless ally. This keeps the US completely out of Europe and even if they become involved, their forces will already be committed in Japan.

Give up the genocidal maniac and treat the new territories extra nice.

You can then sue for peace with France and England, organize the new territories and see if Russia is willing to let you develop their oil fields.

Give it ten years and the western world will help you take on Russia. Go straight for the oil and then you can take south Russia which ain't Russia any way, and let the north freeze.

If they get grumpy you have the allies to back you.

Its an even shot France going fascist and you'll probably pick up Greece too for taking out Turkey.

You can move into the middle east (bleah, but oil) or take the nice part of Russia (very attractive farming, minerals and oil). To keep the balkins happy make every one their own state and let feel independent a bit. 30 or so semi autonimous states should do it. It worked for the brits in India. The Russians did good for years by making service manditory and shipping every one out of their home state.

 

Heavier guns, not better and the armor was only heavier in the front. In short a heavy battle tank.

They were more effective at long range, head on, but at medium or close range and from the side and back they had no advantage. They were also slow, heavy and big. As can be seen easily at Kursk, they were not the wunder tank by any means.

The t-34 was a medium battle tank. It was cheap, easy to make and maintain, reliable, fast, had a low profile, sloped armor and long range. It started with a respectible 76mm gun and that was upped to a long 85mm gun as the German armor got thicker and to give it comparable range. Like the AK-47 it is still fielded today. That is a hell of a service life. Right up there with the DC3 and M1911.

And frankly at that technology level lots of good reliable tanks beats fewer cranky fancy tanks any day. Particularly if your generals are smart enough not to do head to head long range slugouts.

 

Your inability to understand what is actually admirable is not admirable. Your antisemetism and inability to own up to your own racism is also not admirable.

Perhaps you should do something about that.

 

Hitler got things done

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/9767364/F1-executive-Ecclestone:-Hitler-'got-things-done'

 

I would suggest reading this instead http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/berlin.htm

 

I respect him for the same reason I respect Nazi Germany How much they accomplished in so little time. In Just a few short years, they conquered all of Europe, almost the entirety of Russia, the Middle East, and about half of Africa. Very few empires in history can claim control over such a large area.

Not only that, but the Western world owes so much to Nazi Germany. They were the first country in modern history to have strict animal protection and anti-smoking laws. They were the first to have regular TV broadcasts. They are responsible for numerous architectural, agricultural, medical, and other advances. We wouldn't even be in space were it not for the V2 and Sanger Silbervogel, which are direct predecessors of NASA's rockets and Space Shuttle.

The Western military gained the most, though. They are essentially inventors of missiles. They were the first to use combined arms tactics, now used by almost every nation. They were also the first to use Blitzkrieg, which is also used by almost every nation, though usually under the name "Shock and Awe". They were the first to use jets, helicopters, fully electric subs, night vision, thermal vision; air-to-air, air-to-ground,and surface-to-air missles, and more. It's too much to count.

We owe much of the things common place in the world today to the Nazis. Your cell phone wouldn't work if Hitler hadn't demand the V-2.

 

Er, Goddard? Tsiolkovsky?

No.

Yup, they simply used British-proposed methods (Liddel-Hart, Fuller etc., Plan 1919 and "Deep Battle" spring to mind).

No.

Not by much, the French and Poles(?) weren't far behind at all. Of course, being over-run by the Nazis didn't help development in either country afterwards.

All because they were needed to counter Allied superiority.
In point of fact Britain was ahead of Germany with infra-red but didn't see any need for it in combat.
Um, air-air missiles? Built but not used AFAIK.
Likewise air-ground (unless you're talking about the air-surface anti-shipping missiles).
And none of the surface-air missiles entered service either.
All of which the UK and the US were working on and had, if not prototypes, many workable designs.

Germany had far too many woo woo projects going, not enough resources, nowhere near enough centralised control and idiots in charge who wanted "infallible wonder weapons" as opposed to workable "good enough for the job" projects.

 

Hitler was just mad.