Plastics, food, and toxicity

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by Giambattista, May 30, 2009.

  1. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    I've been especially concerned lately about plastic containers and food. Water bottles, juice containers, microwaveable food containers, bowls, tupperware, etc.

    I started taking notice a number of years ago, but lately it's really come to my attention that some plastics and their safety might be taken for granted.

    I'm not very educated in the food-plastic area, but I would think it's reasonable that anytime you heat food in a synthetic polymer container, you're going to get residual molecules that break off and end up being ingested.

    Concern has been raised about several plastic formulations.

    http://www.theconscientioushome.net/articles.php?con_id=183
    Polyvinyl chloride. Never heard great things about it as it applies to toxicity.

    http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/eco-friendly/plastic-bottles-toxins-water-bottles-460410
    This link describes potential hazards of the 3 most suspect plastic types.

    Anyone have any comments?
     
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    some things should be pointed out.

    1. those diner type plastic lined coffee cups mentioned in one of the links have been around for decades. if there was something inherently poisonous about them it would have been very obvious and easy to pinpoint.

    i dont really know how many decades they have been in use but i think since the 60s but maybe earlier since i cant figure out how to search on google for it or have the time to research it right now then maybe someone here knows from personal experience.

    2. people in societies and culture where plastic is not used, both present and of course most obviously in the pat dnt use plastic and they dont live longer. in fact they have\had shorter lifesapans. living to 80-90-100 years is quite a feat for humanity and say for example in the 1800 dying at 20-40-50 was very common and it still does happen but more of these people who would have died very young are kept alive through modern technology but it still does happen. my cousin died in her 30s from cancer and you have to remember that in the 1800s or early 1900s this was not diagnosed. people just died but obviously they died from something. so now if someone dies very young there always seems to HAVE to be a reason, something they could have doen to prevent it or there was an environmental reason for their death...or so many people believe but this is, to an overwhelming degree, not true at all.

    personally i am very conscious towards what i do afa the environment and i was aware of environmental issues from an early age. one thing is that i never use air conditioning, no matter how hot it gets and have not used ac for over 12 years or since i had my own place to live. another thing i NEVER do is use plastic supermarket bags and now you can buy reuseable bags in most supermarkets but like i said i bring my own bags and have for as long as i can remember.

    recycling plastic is a very good idea and plastic is probabvly one of the top three discoveries to mankind. it really is incredible. to give an example: i saw someone drop a laptop off a desk pick it up and turn it on and it worked for years after that. it didnt shatter into a million pieces and is very lightweight.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
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  5. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, like lead paint! That was used for decades and we know that's not dangerous!

    According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, 1961, humans were living to age 50, on average. Today, it's about 77 to 81, and while a 30 year addition is pretty good, this can mostly be attributed to better nutrition, medicine, and sanitation.

    While we weren't always diagnosing cancer in the past, by the late 1800's/early 1900's, we do have pretty good medical records that indicate cancer rates. By the mid 1900's, we were identifying cancer almost as accurately as we are today. Cell production irregularity (like cancer) can be very hard to treat, but it's really not hard for us to identify, even looking to the past.

    More importantly, since the introduction of of polycarbonate plastics we've had a consistent rise in diabetes and obesity.

    Good for you, but we're not talking about John's Brilliant Ideas (tm). I certainly don't want you to rely on plastic grocer's bags. I don't either, and air conditioning is not great for the environment, but so is consuming things out of plastic. I use air conditioning and eat some things out of plastic, but I don't harbor any illusions that because I do it that it's good for the environment or me.

    No. Recycling plastic is merely a slightly less terrible idea than purchasing virgin plastic. Producing virgin glass creates less pollution than either plastic production or recycling.
     
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  7. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    I'm stunned today that so many parents choose not only to bottle feed their babies, but go a step beyond not caring enough about their children to attempt breastfeeding and go for plastic bottles that might contain BPA. Playtex no longer contains BPA, but as formulas and plastic bottles are both linked to obesity and diabetes, I think a child is worth putting your neck out a little bit. Adults can choose for themselves, but I honestly just want to puke when parents tell me they're bottle feeding their biological children. LAZY AND IGNORANT.
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    lead paint is dangerous if you eat it so i suppose the same can be said for plastic...or rocks and glass too for that matter. heating food or beverages in certain containers can obviously be a problem and there are warnings printed on the containers not to do it but that is why i mentioned the plastic lined coffee cups and how long they have been around for and tbh styrofoam i am not so sure about.

    er 30 years is a lot when it is someone we know or yourself. personally i really think the main reason is advances in medicine and i know there are billions of cases to corroborate that. tbh, many seemingly healthy people just die and they eat right and exercise even more than what is average.

    while neither you or i are doctors i dont agree with that statement at all. various types of cancers were certainly not diagnosed or even the ability to do so was not available in the 1800s. medical treatment and medicine in the 1800s\ early 1900s is not even in the same league. it is a world apart.
     
  9. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Lead paint is dangerous even if you're not eating it. You can breathe in the dust from it, absorb it through your skin, etc. Also, did you bother reading the links I had? You don't just eat this stuff and risk danger. READ.

    You're just repeating what I said, John.

    Evidence, please.

    John, you pay no attention to anything, do you? I'm studying radiology and I work in funeral services.

    Read what I said and get back to me.
     
  10. justwonderingjoe Gosh,the weather is nice today Registered Senior Member

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  11. justwonderingjoe Gosh,the weather is nice today Registered Senior Member

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    No.
     
  12. John99 Banned Banned

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    lead:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081203112734AA51j7o
     
  13. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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  14. John99 Banned Banned

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    well yes but normally you dont eat paint either. i seriously doubt you will have problems resting your arm on dry lead paint and people handle bullets regularly like people who reload ammo.

    you must think asbestos is dangerous also. the thing is that you can live with asbestos right next to you for 100 years and have no associated problems with that either.
     
  15. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    John, you're really frustrating me. You do not have to eat lead paint. That's not how most of it endangers people. If you had bothered to read the links, you'd have read that most people get sick from breathing the microscopic sheddings off the wall. Stop just arguing for the sake of arguing and try actually being informed.
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    If the paint is not disturbed it will not do any damage. this is why i mentioned asbestos because the same exact principal applies. do you think you can breath any insulation into your lungs and not be effected by it? asbestos removal was a huge billion dollar industry.

    as far as paint shedding you need to prove that paint sheds because i never knew that lead paint sheds. if you sand it that is a different story but tbh i think lead is mainly harmful to small developing children. someone else can come in and say i am wrong if i am.

    why dont you just post the relevant parts to your links? it cant be more than a few sentences and you would be sharing the info with everyone.

    i am not saying that if a small child eats paint chips they will not be effected by it but i think this is true for small children.
     
  17. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Because I'm not posting anything that long, John, and usually the majority of the article relates to what I am saying, and I assume you can be bothered to read three paragraphs in your busy lifestyle. Most people can be bothered to learn about the various ways they're being poisoned.

    Although since you'd rather get lead poisoning than read very much, here:

    "Eating paint chips is one way young children are exposed to lead. It is not the most common way that consumers, in general, are exposed to lead. Ingesting and inhaling lead dust that is created as lead-based paint "chalks," chips, or peels from deteriorated surfaces can expose consumers to lead."
     
  18. EmeraldAxe Registered Senior Member

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    The more logical reason for an increase in diabetes and obesity has to do with diet, processed food, etc.

    Lead indeed needs to be ingested to cause damage on a clinical level (according to the USMLE).
     
  19. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    Not to break your heart, but we've been processing the hell out of food since the 1950's. We weren't putting stuff in plastic then like we do today. Also, read the links. I think particles/treatments from the plastic definitely are getting in baby bottles/food containers and affecting people, from the evidence I've seen. Not to say the processed food doesn't hurt also, but I think all of it sucks.
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    TJ, you are flat out wrong on many things which is part of learning but you are very persistent. you can say 'i believe' or 'i think...' etc. but if your info is not factual or still in early stages of research then you should be a little more humble.
     
  21. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    John, notice how I use research to back me up? I try to speak in E-prime not to look like a jackass, unlike Mr. "A Joint is Just Like a Small Line of Heroin."

    BPA in plastic was concluded to hurt the hell out of babies. That's why Playtex doesn't put it in their products now.
     
  22. takandjive Killer Queen Registered Senior Member

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    And if you bothered to read, John, you'd know some of the research dates back to the 1970's regarding plastic.
     
  23. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Uh... you know, he kept going on about how no facial features carry indications of one's sexuality while we were discussing a study that showed greater-than-chance identification of sexuality just by examing eyes and mouth.
    I wonder if that's carried over here???

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