Paedophiles - where do they come from?

If you don't think he's serious you haven't seen much of his posts on this. He is always and forever using intellectual objectivity to defend paedophilia and its 'abstract' 'relative' definitions and 'defending' the right of children to have sex with middle-aged men.

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Let's have sex with children in the name of science!

 

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not really. no.

 

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This issue isn't just about you and me. According to a report by the Kaiser Family Foundation, while there seems to have been a slight decline in sexual activity between 9 and 12th graders, even in 9th grade, around 33% of teenagers have had sex, and by 12th grade it rises to around 62%. While some may say that it's kosher if it's within their age group, this isn't necessarily the case, especially when it comes to raising children. I think that part of the reason that things seem to have worked out between Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau, is that while Vili may not have been ready to raise children when he conceived them, his parents stepped in and Mary Kay had already been raising some of her own.

You seem to be ok with the relationship of Vili and Mary Kay, and yet their age differential is much greater than that.

Comparing youth to mentally retarded people is, in my view, not altogether accurate. While one would expect that people in a sanitarium may never be able to function in society, youth by and large already do and when they get older they will officially gain 'adult' status.

The reason I brought it up was because I felt you might well have heard of that case. Their case is certainly not the only case of 2 lovers that were greatly condemned by society only to do it their way in the end despite all the condemnation. However, it may well be the most famous case.

From what I remember of his testimony, I have a strong feeling he'd disagree with you. Now here's the punchline: who are you to judge? What do you know of his life?

And it did, despite the fact that Mary Kay Letourneau was jailed twice for expressing it with him. Do you believe society was justified in jailing her for having consensual sex with him? Do you honestly think it helped anything? As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 conditions that should be met before someone engages in sexual intercourse with someone else:
1- It's likely to be beneficial to both people involved.
2- They are, together, able to deal with the consequences of their actions, such as, say, pregnancy, if the sex is unprotected.

General consensuses aren't always right. I myself refuse to agree with the majority just because they're a majority.

It depends where you are. In some places in the U.S., you essentially get full sexual consent rights at 16. In spain, the age of consent is 13 and in certain muslim countries, I'm not completely sure how low it goes for sexual activities, so long as there is parental consent. As I've mentioned before, there are certainly many negative aspects of these muslim countries, not least of which is the idea that females are property, but I personally like the idea that engaging in sexual activities be linked with someone who can handle the responsibilities of doing so. That is, if a parent allows their children to engage in sexual activities and their child gets pregnant, they should help shoulder the burden of the consequences.

And this leads up to what I feel is the biggest irony; adults, by and large, are far more capable of taking care of children then minors. And yet instead of essentially allowing them to help with the consequences such as pregnancy, we send them to jail?

 

Yes, but I didn't write what you're quoting there; it was part of the post, allegedly from a teen, that was in a response to me in another forum.

 

Paedophiles - where do they come from?

Assembly line in the Vatican, right next to the cracker & kool -aid line

 

I think Stryder nailed it on page 1, there are too many variables to say where paedophilia comes from. Predisposition, learned behavior, emotional/environmental triggers, probably a combination of all of the above.

That said, I actually feel sorry for people with paedophiliatic(correct term?) tendencies. In today's society, I can't imagine anyone choosing to be attracted to minors. I'm sure if they could stop their attractions and choose to be "normal" they would.

Unfortunately for them, if they act on those tendencies, they are breaking the law and lose any sympathy from me. It must be hard having to suppress an urge like that for an entire lifetime, but that sucks for them.

No one is promised an easy life, or a happy ending.

 

Scott: but I personally like the idea that engaging in sexual activities be linked with someone who can handle the responsibilities of doing so. That is, if a parent allows their children to engage in sexual activities and their child gets pregnant, they should help shoulder the burden of the consequences.

Talkandjive do you get it now?

 

Yeah the same could be said about serial killers.

 

Indeed. Sucks for them too. People can't always do what they want.

 

But when you feel compelled to justify it?

Too strange. I like this "I myself refuse to agree with the majority just because they're a majority." So if the majority decides that eating shit is bad we can be sure that the rebel will disagree.

 

I have my own opinion about teenage parents, but that's got nothing to do with the topic at hand other than proving Vili and Mary Kay are probably irresponsible.

Put down the peace pipe and check it for crack, Action Jackson. It's NOT okay that Mary Kay slept with a student. Now they're two grown-ups, and not in a teacher/student relationship.

Yeah. That's my point.

Now, Scottie, how many kids have you dealt with? Because I routinely deal with kids from age 3 to 17. I think I have a pretty good idea about how their decision making skills are or aren't up to par.

Look, I watched on this case. That's not a "punchline." Reality check: You seem to think kids are miniature adults. They're not. They're not equals. It's not possible for them to have equal say because of hundreds of years of civilization and a lot of people think this has a biological basis. Actually know stuff about kids, I tend to agree.

You don't get to determine what's beneficial, Scott. Some people think raping the shit out of a mouthy woman is beneficial to the raped and the rapist. Well, I guess that's okay, too! Someone says it's okay! Who am I to say rape is wrong?

Yes, sending her ass to prison served a purpose. It sends a message to teachers not to abuse their positions of power to fuck kids. If she was in "love" with this boy so much, then she would have never drug him through the shit she did. She would have waited. That's not "love."

Well, ain't you a Tom Dandy free thinker? I don't agree to agree, but if MOST SUCCESSFUL MODERN CULTURES think that fucking a kid is wrong, I might think, "Gee shit, maybe they're right. Let me think about what I know and have experienced, rather speculation. And if I don't know anything, but would like something to be so, I will not bullshit, but will keep my mouth shut."

So the kid should be able to fuck who they want and have no responsibility for what happens? That makes sense. And have you noted that most successful countries don't allow someone twenty years older to bone someone else?

Because statistically, minors make great parents! Oh, wait, no they don't. And where the hell do we send minors jail for being pregnant?

 

Do you mean that you wish to define a child in such a manner?

Sometimes you have to know a bit in order to make sense of that chart. Take a look at Afghanistan, for example. See how it says 18 for males and "married" for females? It may well be that there is no official age of consent for females in Afghanistan, that the only condition is that you be married. Informally, however, I believe the age of consent seems to be 9 for a married female, as that is the alleged age that the prophet Mohammed consumated his marriage with his youngest wife, Aisha. There's a rather long article on the subject, which can be found here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm

So you are appealing to majorities then? I personally would rather appeal to logic...

Yes, there are certainly cases where the list says a number that isn't the whole story...

This establishes a very good point: the person doesn't even have to be an adult. The other point, which I have mentioned before, is that this is only the clinical definition of pedophilia. There is, as I have mentioned, also the legal definition as well as the"common usage" definition.

The clinical definition, yes. I hope you haven't forgotten the other definitions that wikipedia mentioned, however....

You're forgetting countries like Afghanistan. I believe it's not that common, but it can be acceptable for a 9 year old to be married, as I have mentioned. We tend to hear about it only when the child protests the marriage and the marriage is annulled (and I certainly don't believe in forced marriages so I'm glad annulments of this nature can happen).

The irony is that the medical definition doesn't always agree with the above statement; first of all, the person may be 16 or 17 and second of all, if the person in question's preference isn't the under 12 crowd, they aren't pedophiles.

Eventually I believe terms such as non age specific attraction may start getting used a bit more, just as the term bisexual is much more known now then it was when there was so much gay bashing.

 

LMFAO. Oh God. You're my favorite person in the world right now. That is priceless.

I get it now, Lucy. I'm slow, but I get it now.

 

I actually have been enjoying this conversation to some extent, although I'm not sure if that will last. The questions mentioned weren't my own, but rather from the post of the guy who wrote all those points.

I haven't gotten kicked off of any forum recently. It's just that talking about 9/11 gets tiring and I tend to like subjects concerning some aspects of sexuality better.

 

:bugeye: You have drastically misunderstood me. I'm not justifying anything. Paedophiles and serial killers have urges that they cannot act on. It puts too many people at risk, and its bad for the public well-being. I do not have those urges. I find sex with women appealing, the same way a paedophile finds sex with a minor appealing.

My urge is legal, and (aside from stds) puts no one at risk. A paedophile's urge harms people. They can't act on it. If they could choose to not have those urges, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance. But they can't. And I lose sympathy for them when they do.

Don't you think that would be a hard thing to live with Lucy? That was my point.

 

As the term 'paedophilia' is a very broad one, I wouldn't say that I am 'defending paedophilia'. Rather, I have frequently asked people to think about the many grey lines concerning sexuality that exist. For whatever reason, people seem to get extra mileage out of this particular subject, but people who know me know that I have talked about other issues concerning sexuality as well.

 

I think this is a real problem when debating this type of thing amoung with people that have such broad definitions of pedophiles. I have never advocated for forced sexual interactions, generally known as rape. And yet your definition of pedophiles apparently includes this and I know that you're not alone in having this type of broad definition. Perhaps there should be a term, even something like "non violent MAAs" (Minor Attracted Adults), in order differentiate from people who are, indeed, violent.

 

Wrong. My guide is logic, instead of a 'the majority must be right' mentality.

 

Well how would you define a child? There is a consensus that a child is 12 and under. 14 seems to be the youngest one can safely give consent with a few exceptions right?

So you take 7th century law used by the taliban of all people as a standard of acceptable behaviour? IRIN says this

"Nearly 60 percent of marriages in Afghanistan involve girls below the legal age of 16, according to reports from the Ministry of Women's Affairs and NGOs. Some girls are married as young as nine. Rights and health activists say that such marriages increase the maternal mortality rate."

Can you guess why it would increase maternal mortality rate? Most girls begin their period at 12.

It adds:

"Badakhshan [northeastern province] has the highest maternal mortality rate in the country and one of the main reason is under-age marriages - even as young as seven in some cases. This needs to be addressed,” Paul Greening a project officer of the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) said on Wednesday in Kabul."

It outrageous many Afghanis as this is not part of their traditional ways but something placed by extremists. Are you saying we should take our cues from extremists?