Ms

Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

Undecided case of MS, and think it's getting worse. I'll tell you the symptoms.

Caused by seeming relationship with person I don't even have one with.
Seems to have destroyed my ability to have sex.
Almost as someone wants me to die.

Seriously.
It is all over. I can't really move or see. Can't move my legs or arms. Been placed in jail.
Fingers and arms legs all very tierd. Can't control my back. Sit or stand. I can still operate fairly well but think it's poor to consider that as true, and I was wondering about seeking the advice of people here.

Future outcomes and possibilities.
Believe me I miss being able to have sex
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Whats most disappointing, is I think it's still possible to recover from I know that sounds absolutely terrible but what I mean is it seems possible to recover from but the symptoms are nearly so great that I don't know what to do about it.

Any advice/suggestions/cheering up is welcomed.

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Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

Tnerb MS is a terrible disease, a family friend (who is only about 20) has it. To be honest i dont know a whole heep about it but i THINK its cyclic and its a case of the onset of symptoms becoming more frequent rather than it directly being a degenerative disease (at least initially).

ok rather than speculating i found this (seems i was only partually right, there is both reocurring and progressive)

http://www.msaustralia.org.au/aboutms-treatment.asp

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Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

Do you know any about the sexual aspects of MS and ability to have sex? Couldn't find any research on that. Seems irrelevant. But still worrying.

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Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

Symptoms of MS are unpredictable and vary greatly from person to person and from time to time in the same person. They may include: extreme tiredness (fatigue), impaired vision, loss of balance and muscle coordination, slurred speech, tremors, stiffness, bladder and bowel problems, difficulty walking, short-term memory loss, mood swings and, in severe cases, partial or complete paralysis.
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http://www.msaustralia.org.au/aboutms-faq.asp#TYPICAL-SYMPTOMS

concidering both the neropsycologica and neromusculuar symptoms it makes sence though it isnt stated directly, will keep looking

Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

here is more on the specific symptoms (click on them)
http://www.msaustralia.org.au/aboutms-symptoms.asp

there are treatments which can help you know

Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

ok found one:

Sexual problems are often experienced by people with MS, but they are very common in the general population as well. Sexual arousal begins in the central nervous system, as the brain sends messages to the sexual organs along nerves running through the spinal cord. If MS damages these nerve pathways, sexual response—including arousal and orgasm—can be directly affected. Sexual problems also stem from MS symptoms such as fatigue or spasticity, as well as from psychological factors relating to self-esteem and mood changes.

In a recent study, 63% of people with MS reported that their sexual activity had declined since their diagnosis. Other surveys of persons with MS suggest that as many as 91% of men and 72% of women may be affected by sexual problems. Ignoring these problems can lead to major losses in quality of life. Yet both individuals and health-care professionals are often slow to bring up the subject.

In women, symptoms include:
Reduced sensation in the vaginal/clitoral area, or painfully heightened sensation
Vaginal dryness
Trouble achieving orgasm
Loss of libido
In men, symptoms include:
Difficulty achieving or maintaining an erection (by far the most common problem)
Reduced sensation in the penis
Difficulty achieving orgasm and/or ejaculation
Loss of libido
Other MS symptoms cause problems in both sexes:
Fatigue and weakness can interfere with sexual interest and/or activity.
Spasticity can cause cramping or uncontrollable spasms in the legs, causing them to pull together or making them difficult to separate—either of which can make positioning difficult or uncomfortable.
Pain can interfere with pleasure.
Embarrassment can be caused by bowel or bladder incontinence.
Therapies Are Available to Treat Sexual Problems of MS
There are a variety of therapies to treat sexual dysfunction. For men, erectile dysfunction may be addressed through use of the oral medications Viagra® (sildenafil), Levitra® (vardenafil), and Cialis® (tadalafil); injectable medications such as papaverine and phentolamine that increase blood flow in the penis; the MUSE® system which involves inserting a small suppository into the penis; inflatable devices; and implants.

For women, vaginal dryness can be relieved by using liquid or jellied, water-soluble personal lubricants, which can be purchased over-the-counter. It is a common mistake to use too little of these products. Specialists advise using them generously. Petroleum jelly (Vaseline®) should not be used because it is not water-soluble and may cause infection.

Both men and women with MS and their partners can benefit from instruction in alternative means of sexual stimulation, such as the use of a vibrator, to overcome slow arousal and impaired sensation. Abnormal sensations and spasms can often be controlled through use of medication. Techniques such as intermittent catheterization or medication can control urinary leakage during intercourse.

Fertility, Conception, and Sexually Transmitted Diseases
MS does not affect the basic fertility of either men or women, although sexual problems may interfere with the ability of a man with MS to father a baby. "Dry orgasms," that impair fertility, have been reported by men with MS in several studies. These problems have been successfully treated with medication or through techniques to harvest sperm for insemination. Men who are concerned about fertility issues should consult a urologist experienced in this area.

Women and men with MS are also advised that they must make the same decisions and take the same precautions regarding birth control and sexually transmitted diseases as anyone else.

Emotional Issues
The emotional factors relating to changes in sexual function are quite complex. They may involve loss of self-esteem, depression, anxiety, anger, and/or the stress of living with a chronic illness. Counseling by a mental health professional or trained sexual therapist can address both physiologic and psychological issues. This therapy should involve both partners.
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http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/symptoms/sexual-dysfunction/index.aspx

Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

Asguard said: ↑

http://www.msaustralia.org.au/aboutms-faq.asp#TYPICAL-SYMPTOMS

concidering both the neropsycologica and neromusculuar symptoms it makes sence though it isnt stated directly, will keep looking
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What about me? Does it seem like from my posts I may be suffering from something of the sort?

Bells · Apr 17, 2009

Tnerb said: ↑

Undecided case of MS, and think it's getting worse. I'll tell you the symptoms.
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Have you been diagnosed as suffering from MS? By a doctor?

Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

Bells said: ↑

Have you been diagnosed as suffering from MS? By a doctor?
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No. But I have reason to believe that I have a dysfunction in my sexual activity which would be related to MS. It's hard to find someone to talk about it to.

Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

i missed that:embarised:

Tnerb i thought you ment you HAD MS, seriously why are you asking about it on an internet forum? go to a doctor who will then send you to a specialist (i dont know wether that would be a nurologist or an immunologist or someone else entirly)

Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

Asguard said: ↑

i missed that:embarised:

Tnerb i thought you ment you HAD MS, seriously why are you asking about it on an internet forum? go to a doctor who will then send you to a specialist (i dont know wether that would be a nurologist or an immunologist or someone else entirly)
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This is really upsetting. I seem to be doing fairly well.

Bells · Apr 17, 2009

Tnerb said: ↑

No. But I have reason to believe that I have a dysfunction in my sexual activity which would be related to MS. It's hard to find someone to talk about it to.
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So let me think if I have this..

You have never been diagnosed with MS, but you assume that a sexual dysfunction in your sexual activity, you say you are suffering from, is a direct cause of MS?

Ermm.. Okay.

You say it is hard to find someone to talk about it.. So you come to an internet forum populated by complete strangers to you to talk about it, instead of going to a doctor?

Again.. Ermm.. Okay.

This is really upsetting. I seem to be doing fairly well.
Click to expand...

What is really upsetting? That you think you have MS because of a dysfunction in your sexual activity or because you "seem to be doing fairly well"?

Seriously, call your doctor and go and talk to them about it.

Do you think you have MS because you aren't having sex? Or you can't perform sexually, so you think you have MS?

Either way, you need to seek professional help immediately.

Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

as bells said even if you could trust me or anyone else here to know what the hell they are talking about and they could trust you to be honest and open about your problems (which is unrealistic to say the least) YOU CANT DIOGNOSE MS CLINICALLY

At this time, there are no symptoms, physical findings or laboratory tests that can, by themselves, determine if a person has MS. The doctor uses several strategies to determine if a person meets the long-established criteria for a diagnosis of MS and to rule out other possible causes of whatever symptoms the person is experiencing. These strategies include a careful medical history, a neurologic exam and various tests, including magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), evoked potentials (EP) and spinal fluid analysis.

The Criteria for a Diagnosis of MS
In order to make a diagnosis of MS, the physician must:

Find evidence of damage in at least two separate areas of the central nervous system (CNS), which includes the brain, spinal cord and optic nerves AND
Find evidence that the damage occurred at least one month apart AND
Rule out all other possible diagnoses
In 2001, the International Panel on the Diagnosis of Multiple Sclerosis updated the criteria to include specific guidelines for using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), visual evoked potentials (VEP) and cerebrospinal fluid analysis to speed the diagnostic process. These tests can be used to look for a second area of damage in a person who has experienced only one attack (also called a relapse or an exacerbation) of MS-like symptoms — referred to as a clinically-isolated syndrome (CIS). A person with CIS may or may not go on to develop MS.

The criteria were further revised in 2005 (now referred to as The Revised McDonald Criteria) to make the process even easier and more efficient.

The Tools for Making a Diagnosis
Medical History and Neurologic Exam
The physician takes a careful history to identify any past or present symptoms that might be caused by MS and to gather information about birthplace, family history and places traveled that might provide further clues. The physician also performs a variety of tests to evaluate mental, emotional and language functions, movement and coordination, balance, vision, and the other four senses.

In many instances, the person’s medical history and neurologic exam provide enough evidence to meet the diagnostic criteria. Other tests are used to confirm the diagnosis or provide additional evidence if it’s necessary.

MRI
MRI is the best imaging technology for detecting the presence of MS plaques or scarring (also called lesions) in different parts of the CNS. It can also differentiate old lesions from those that are new or active.

The diagnosis of MS cannot be made solely on the basis of MRI because there are other diseases that cause lesions in the CNS that look like those caused by MS. And even people without any disease — particularly the elderly — can have spots on the brain that are similar to those seen in MS.

Although MRI is a very useful diagnostic tool, a normal MRI of the brain does not rule out the possibility of MS. About 5% of people who are confirmed to have MS do not initially have brain lesions on MRI. However, the longer a person goes without brain or spinal cord lesions on MRI, the more important it becomes to look for other possible diagnoses.

Read more on MRI
Visual Evoked Potential (VEP)
Evoked potential (EP) tests are recordings of the nervous system's electrical response to the stimulation of specific sensory pathways (e.g., visual, auditory, general sensory). Because damage to myelin (demyelination) results in a slowing of response time, EPs can sometimes provide evidence of scarring along nerve pathways that does not show up during the neurologic exam. Visual evoked potentials are considered the most useful for confirming the MS diagnosis.

Read more on visual evoked potentials
Cerebrospinal Fluid Analysis
Analysis of the cerebrospinal fluid, which is sampled by a spinal tap, detects the levels of certain immune system proteins and the presence of oligoclonal bands. These bands, which indicate an immune response within the CNS, are found in the spinal fluid of about 90-95% of people with MS. But because they are present in other diseases as well, oligoclonal bands cannot be relied on as positive proof of MS.

Read more on cerebrospinal fluid analysis
Blood Tests
While there is no definitive blood test for MS, blood tests can rule out other conditions that cause symptoms similar to those of MS, including Lyme disease, a group of diseases known as collagen-vascular diseases, certain rare hereditary disorders, and AIDS.

Other Conditions Cause Demyelination (Damage to Myelin)
Demyelination in the Central Nervous System
Although MS is the most common, other conditions can damage myelin in the CNS, including viral infections, side effects from high exposure to certain toxic materials, severe vitamin B12 deficiency, autoimmune conditions that lead to inflammation of blood vessels (the "collagen-vascular diseases"), and some rare hereditary disorders.
Demyelination in the Peripheral Nervous System
Demyelination of the peripheral nervous system (the nerves outside the brain and spinal cord) occurs in Guillain-Barré Syndrome. After some injuries, the myelin sheath in the peripheral nervous system regenerates, bringing recovery of function.
Some demyelinating conditions are self-limiting, while others may be progressive. Careful (and sometimes repetitive) examinations may be needed to establish an exact diagnosis among the possible causes of neurologic symptoms.
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http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/diagnosing-ms/index.aspx

Diagnosis
There is no laboratory test, symptom, or physical finding which, when present or positive, always means a person has MS. In addition, some of the symptoms of MS could also be caused by other diseases.

Consequently, the diagnosis of MS must be made by a careful process which demonstrates findings that are consistent with MS and that also rules out other causes.

The basic "rule" for diagnosing MS relies on two criteria:

There must have been two attacks at least one month apart. An attack, also known as an exacerbation, flare, or relapse, is a sudden appearance of or worsening of an MS symptom or symptoms which lasts at least 24 hours.
There must be more than one area of damage to central nervous system myelin - the sheath that surrounds and protects nerve fibers. The damage to myelin must have occurred at more than one point in time and not have been caused by any other disease that can cause demyelination or similar neurologic symptoms.
MRI is the preferred method of imaging the brain
MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) is currently the preferred method of imaging the brain to detect the presence of plaques or scarring caused by MS. It is better at detecting plaques than CT scanning. Often brains that appear to be normal on CT scans will be shown to have plaques on MRI. Still, the diagnosis of MS cannot be made solely on the basis of MRI. There are other diseases that cause lesions-areas of damage in the brain that look like those caused by MS. There are also spots found in healthy individuals, particularly in older persons, that are not related to any ongoing disease process.

On the other hand, a normal MRI does not absolutely rule out a diagnosis of MS. About 5% of patients who are confirmed to have MS on the basis of other criteria, do not show any lesions in the brain on MRI. These people may have lesions in the spinal cord or may have lesions which cannot be detected by MRI.

Clinical exam includes history and tests of function
Other symptoms of MS will be evaluated during the clinical examination conducted by a physician.This covers an extensive review of mental, emotional and language functions, movement and coordination, vision, balance and the functions of the five senses. Sex, birthplace, family history and age of the person when symptoms first began are also taken into consideration.

Sometimes other tests are needed
It is not usually necessary to do all diagnostic tests for every patient. If, however, a clear-cut diagnosis cannot be made based on the tests above, additional tests may be ordered. These include tests of evoked potentials, cerebrospinal fluid and blood.

Evoked potential tests are electrical diagnostic studies which can show if there is a slowing of messages in the various parts of the brain. They often provide evidence of scarring along nerve pathways that is not apparent on a neurologic exam. Cerebrospinal fluid, usually taken by a spinal tap, is tested for levels of certain immune system proteins and for the presence of oligoclonal bands. These bands indicate an abnormal autoimmune response within the central nervous system,meaning the body is producing an immune response against itself. Oligoclonal bands are found in the spinal fluid of about 90-95% of people with MS, but since they are present in other diseases as well cannot be relied on as positive proof of MS. They may also take some years to develop.While there is no definitive blood test for MS, blood tests can rule out other causes for various neurologic symptoms. Some other conditions that cause symptoms similar to those of MS are Lyme disease, a group of diseases known as collagen-vascular diseases, certain rare hereditary disorders and AIDS.

Source - NMSS Information Resource Center and Library. Compendium of Multiple Sclerosis Information (CMSI). 1997, US National Multiple Sclerosis Society. Rev. 10/97. Reproduced with permission.

About Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI). What is MRI?
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) is a technique that produces detailed images of the inside of your body. These images produce a clear picture of your internal organs and soft tissues, from many different angles. Dozens of images may be produced during any one scan, depending on your doctor's request.

MRI works by using radio waves (similar to those emitted by your TV antenna) and magnetic fields, in conjunction with special computers. The magnetic field that is produced prepares the cells of your body to reflect radio "signals". The signals reflected by any abnormal cells are identifiable on the image or "picture" that is produced. MRI is therefore an important and very useful tool in the location and diagnosis of abnormalities of the brain, spine, joints and internal organs.

Is MRI safe?
The radio and magnetic waves used during MRI are in themselves safe and no adverse health or side effects have been reported following normal exposures. There is no radiation or x-ray involved in the procedure.

However if you have:

A pacemaker.
Metallic implants or other sources of metal within your body.
Internal contraceptives.
A prosthetic device.
Heart problems.
You need to inform you doctor prior to the examination as the procedure may not be suitable for you. There has been no evidence to suggest that MRI is hazardous to pregnant women. However, if you are pregnant or suspect you may be, you should inform your doctor.

What do I have to do to prepare for the scan?
Unless you are already in hospital, you will be tested as an outpatient. There are no dietary or other restrictions prior to MRI. You may like to practice relaxation techniques such as meditation, breathing exercise or guided imagery. These may prove useful during the scan.

Immediately prior to the scan, you will be asked to remove all metal objects including:

Glasses
Dentures
Hearing aids
Jewellery
Wallets, credit cards and coins
Watch
Hair pins/clips
You may also be asked to remove any excess make-up. You will then be provided with a hospital gown to wear during the procedure.

What will happen during the scan?
MRI scan procedure is very simple. You will be asked to lie very still on a padded "bench" which is then moved slowly into the scanner. The scanner itself is a long, well-lit tunnel, open at both ends. If particular information is required about specific organs, you may be given an injection of a special fluid (contrast agent) prior to the procedure, to allow for greater detail.

During the examination, you will hear a loud knocking sound. This is just the machine working during the scan. Earplugs or music earphones will be provided and you are welcome to bring your own music or relaxation tapes. Special reflective glasses can also be provided if you would like to see out of the end of the tunnel. Throughout the procedure you will be in voice contact with MRI staff, who will keep you informed of what is happening.

Can I have someone with me during the scan?
Yes. Friends(s)/relative(s) may be invited to sit in the room and converse with you during the scan. Parents may like to be there with their children during the procedure. Visitors will also be required to remove any metal objects (jewellery, etc) before entering the room, so as not to interfere with the magnetic field.

Will I feel anything during the scan?
No, however, the enclosed nature of the scanner may cause some people to experience certain levels of anxiety. If you have any history of panic reactions, or feel this may be a problem, you should talk to your doctor and inform the radiographer prior to the examination. Many people have found talking to someone, wearing special reflective glasses and/or listening to their own music or relaxation tapes help during the procedure. In severe cases, a sedative can be provided.

How long will the scan take?
The MRI scan will take from 30 to 60 minutes, averaging 40 minutes, depending on the amount and type of information required. During this time, you must lie very still, as any movement can cause an unclear sequence of pictures which may then need to be repeated.

What happens after the scan?
You may leave the hospital immediately after your scan. However, if you have had a sedative, it is advisable that you have someone to accompany you home. Your pictures are interpreted by the radiologist and the images and results are then sent to your doctor as soon as possible. You should consult your doctor to arrange a date and time to discuss the results of your scan.

Source - Information Booklet. MRI Department - Epworth Hospital. Reproduced with permission.
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http://www.msaustralia.org.au/aboutms-diagnosis.asp

Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

Asguard said: ↑

as bells said even if you could trust me or anyone else here to know what the hell they are talking about and they could trust you to be honest and open about your problems (which is unrealistic to say the least) YOU CANT DIOGNOSE MS CLINICALLY
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blah blah
It isn't true that I can be open and honest about my problems. That was part of the reason for this thread.

It would require being open and honest, to firstly not be in such poor health, which is probably another reason for this thread.

Bells:

So let me think if I have this..

You have never been diagnosed with MS, but you assume that a sexual dysfunction in your sexual activity, you say you are suffering from, is a direct cause of MS?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that my case of movement paralysis seems to be a direct result of MS.
I'm saying that my movement paralysis is similar to symptoms of MS. And I'm also saying that my sexual dysfunction is my most worried about symptom of this MS.

Ermm.. Okay.
Click to expand...

It's quite a pain
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You say it is hard to find someone to talk about it.. So you come to an internet forum populated by complete strangers to you to talk about it, instead of going to a doctor?
Click to expand...

Sure.

Again.. Ermm.. Okay.
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What is really upsetting? That you think you have MS because of a dysfunction in your sexual activity or because you "seem to be doing fairly well"?
Click to expand...

That I'm having extreme difficulties and yet I seem not so bad off. That the symptoms of the "disease" are not as bad they would seem and yet the future isn't clear.

Seriously, call your doctor and go and talk to them about it.
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Wouldn't care, was curious about symptoms.

Do you think you have MS because you aren't having sex? Or you can't perform sexually, so you think you have MS?
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No. I think I have MS because I am not wanted sexually. In any way shape or form.

Either way, you need to seek professional help immediately.
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You seem to have good advice.:shrug:

Bells · Apr 17, 2009

Tnerb said: ↑

I'm saying that my case of movement paralysis seems to be a direct result of MS.
I'm saying that my movement paralysis is similar to symptoms of MS. And I'm also saying that my sexual dysfunction is my most worried about symptom of this MS.
Click to expand...

So go and see a doctor about it.

That I'm having extreme difficulties and yet I seem not so bad off. That the symptoms of the "disease" are not as bad they would seem and yet the future isn't clear.
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You mean a disease you don't even know you have or not?

It could very well be that you do not have MS but are suffering from something else or nothing physical at all. Again, go and see your doctor about it.

Wouldn't care, was curious about symptoms.
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What symptoms? MS? You haven't even been diagnosed as MS. Ie. You don't even know if you have MS. But the main issue of this whole thing is this:

No. I think I have MS because I am not wanted sexually. In any way shape or form.
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You think you have MS because you think no one wants you sexually? Is that right?

I'm sorry, but being refused sex by others is not a symptom of MS.

I wasn't kidding when I said to seek professional help. I wasn't being unkind about it. I am saying it because it is obvious that you are in dire need of professional help. And professional help of that kind is not what you are going to get from this or any other forum.

Tnerb · Apr 17, 2009

You think you have MS because you think no one wants you sexually? Is that right?

I'm sorry, but being refused sex by others is not a symptom of MS.

I wasn't kidding when I said to seek professional help. I wasn't being unkind about it. I am saying it because it is obvious that you are in dire need of professional help. And professional help of that kind is not what you are going to get from this or any other forum.
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I don't need professional help. I do my work on my own.

Bells · Apr 17, 2009

And it shows.

cosmictraveler · Apr 17, 2009

Tnerb said: ↑

I don't need professional help. I do my work on my own.
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Oh I think you do!
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Oli · Apr 17, 2009

You have to be very, very cautious with self-diagnosis.
I was convinced for weeks that I had nothing more than a very bad case of the 'flu, eventually when I was dragged to the doctor by friends it turned out that I was actually dead.
Always get a professional opinion.

Asguard · Apr 17, 2009

HA HA oil
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but seriously you need to see a doc. i mean lets say for a min your right and it is MS. how are you going to get it treated if you dont see the doc for the drugs? a physio ect

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