Existence of God; the philosophical debate.

didn't realize you were going to answer all posts.

if so perhaps try and stay focused...........

Ladicius was offering an opinion and noted the control imposed by beliefs.

i thought it fitting that the core etymology of the word religion is 'to bind'

but if you like you can post all you like, just quit 'jabbing'

 

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What does "binding" have to do with control?

 

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Bishadi

like all of the people all of the time?
“

So to become a member of the FDA, the main requirements are that one is not overtly religiously/politically inclined?
golly ....

actually we see quite the opposite

Its not clear what you are indicating as a suitable means test that everyone draws an equal on .... and less so how this pertains to levels of compassion and the ability to create

strange

you say everyone can learn the truth by themselves yet simultaneously feel a need to step in and tell it how it is ....

probably because the question involves issues of qualification, much like car mechanics, medicine and the sale of vegetables and fruit

they are however addressed with knowledge of which person is qualified to do what (even in fields that we have no jurisdiction of knowledge)

(I assume that you don't go to your local doctor to buy bananas)

“

The claim of God

erm
the omnipotent, summum bonum, cause of all causes one that you seem to indicate with a "G"

just like some medical practitioners suggest oral medication, some massage, some surgery, some injection, some changes in diet, some acupuncture, etc etc

geez

why can't the bozos simple agree on one point?

so IOW "do nothing"?

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not sure what you mean

you asked if a cure for cancer was defined who would you 'run it by'

i trust the mankind as a species, especially the children.

you trust what men wrote about God..........

another one, i don't understand you here

each are born with compassion (if conscious)

all can create (notice every word in existence; created by mankind)

i say everyone can learn the truth. The evolution of knowledge took 1000's of years.

We now have the internet, so i can say, if you really wanted it bad enough, you could do it.

are you questioning my qualifications?

i didn't claim god. the thread was asking others their ideas. Since god is not on the thread being able to share his views, then 'we the people' are who must talk thru these issues.

i am learning, while getting my checks slapped.

you mean alpha/omega..... as omnipotence is not God it is a definition applied by a sect.

you keep bringing up doctors and such.... means nothing to me

that's three ......... :shrug:

 

This WAS our room. You just ruined the only good thing to happen to the Philosophy forums in over a week.

 

Curious... Have u observed the trouble that when we observe our nature and get some idea of it, we automatically relate our nature to rest of the society and then try to make it better as per the idea of what is better within the society? That also means that we are changing the very nature we just observed as our nature.

Ever noticed? Just wondering.

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What is bad in your perception can be good in another humans perception. I wish to suggest that it gets easier and faster if you reprocess the entire thing all over again without using good, bad, right, wrong, sin, virtue, positive and negative. That would give you more open ended ideas about the idea of nature in a much more complex but interesting manner.

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Yes! Except there are no circumstances with no cause & effect.

I suspect it's partly genetic but before I believe it's mostly genetic, I'd have to know of a large number of people with absolutely no religious influence from birth to age 40 & see what happens.

 

Bishadi

You said

But in science, theories are not considered true until the evidence is provided to support the idea.

I asked to who the evidence is provided to exactly

You responded by saying "the people"

The question still stands, why do some people call the shots on evidence and not others? Why does the FDA operate in one jurisdiction and transport unions in another?

you responded by indicating a body who's central determining factor is (apparently) an absent political and religious agenda ... which strikes me as slightly strange (maybe if they had a few degrees and/or experience in the medical profession it would make more sense)
“

doesn't matter

we still see quite the opposite, namely that compassion and creativity are not exhibited equally in all people
“

You said we are all equal. I am just trying to fathom how you calculated this.

I don't have a problem with that.
I do have a problem when you tag the word "equal" to it, since it is obviously not the case.

well if it rests on an already existing body of knowledge (evolving over 1000's of years) I guess we can rule out the possibility of one learning it by themselves.

hehe

What do you suggest I read on the internet?
The testimonial authority of others?

no

I am questioning the merit of your posts that discuss issues of evidence/truth without even so much as hinting on issues of qualification.

“

I know

But you question the claim, however ....

and I guess a key step in that is looking at what the claim of god does (and does not) involve

hehe
that's usually the way it works

summum bonum already incorporates that idea

what potencies do you suggest god lacks and why?
and furthermore, how is this suggestion of yours the predominant understanding of the nature of god?

doctors also make a claim of knowledge, much like theistic practitioners.

You claim that the realm of theism is a web of disjunctive conclusions and practices.

I am indicating how you can call the same shots on medical practice.

IOW if you don't understand the essence of a discipline (whether it be medicine or theism) of course it will look like a mess.

it seems to be the rational conclusion of your summation of theistic conclusions. If it's fine to discuss how sublime it all is, but I think you also have to look at how we relate to the picture too

 

I do believe you smell the truth.

The defined morality issues can be related to the physical. As we live in the domain of differences set by the manner of observance to nature (2LoT).

Such as consciously our standard observable frame to reference is within the corporeal, even thou capable to perceive the total continuim. (enlightenment of the eastern view/totality as ONE)


them morality functions are defined by observing only one side of the equation, just the same as in current physics, the 'potential difference of 2 point,' but that isn't the whole picture.

your post tells me that you are of aware of this

the problem is returning that 'entire' scope to the tangible in which the concept can be conveyed. (how to bring 'good and bad' back from the 'total', into words that can be understood)

meaning the math is not as tough as the conversion to words but the words will allow the comprehension to be conveyed; the math is just the last word.

as the math is unique when including the entangled environment, How to convey has been the 25yr old question. The math was done in 82'. The tough part is learning how to communicate the application.

And the 'name' is not for sale or vindication. Responsibility is far more important than me making people happy or proving anything to anybody.

And i cannot be bought. (a sort of hold out goof who cares more for the truth, then anyone liking me)

 

political questions... not interested

only one agenda that matters: absolute truth

and man and women is a wee bit different biologically but 'consciously' just about the same (equally capable)

sorry, but you bumped into that idiot; it's been done and existence (God) has a name

and what is a religion?

perhaps an older 'unevolved' rendition of a multitude of 'books'... to create a 'guideline'........

they didn't have what we have.......... freedom to cross all borders of knowledge. From math, philosophies to the variety of religions across the world, 'we the people' can actually observe what we choose, for the most part.

What is missing to many is the honesty, integrity and true grit.

everything you can concieve, experience or know is combined as the He you seek.......... and only by imagination or ignorance does omnipotence exists.

As knowledge and comprehension are what remove the blinders of accepted phenomena being applied to the magic of God.

It is like suggesting your car is magic carpet and can fly to the moon and back. But you and i both know 'you can't' do that and why.

'i believe he is the garden and i have been trying to catch him at his work'
Einstein.

 

Bishadi

so essentially there is no reason why the manager of a trade union cannot fulfill the requirements of a person who validates the claims of new medical procedures within the FDA aside from politics?

golly

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“

so when your car breaks down do you see a doctor or a car mechanic?
“

once again, it's not clear what you are looking at (or determining the quantity of) when you use the word "equal" since its the practical experience of everyone that we are not equal.

You even mentioned earlier that you trust children more than others so its obvious not even you can subscribe to this absurd picture of equality you are trying to paint.
“

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done by who exactly?
“

it doesn't matter

Either way learning requires input from the testimonial authority of others. Just because you are doing it over the net doesn't change anything (actually its not to hard to lodge an argument that it makes it worse)

at least on our RDO's I guess, huh?

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What is missing from many people's use of these words is a philosophical framework that actually makes them meaningful and do-able
“

ok
still not clear on what potencies you suggest god lacks and why.

Ok so a car doesn't have the potency to fly to the moon and god doesn't have the potency to _________ (fill in blank)

and (given that einstein didn't catch him) this suggests god isn't omnipotent because .......?

 

There is no material evidence that supports the existence of God.

Through their hearts an minds. The illusion of an absolute reality.

We created god out of our longing for an external super being to watch over our deeds. But little do we realise that we already are gods. Brahmans made flesh. We must liberate our minds from the material bound world and tap into that perfection.

 

Well bringing good and bad back from the total is trouble. If i try to share my understanding, am gonna get flamed for that. Instead lemme try to beat around the bush...

- Every human brains idea(electrical signals stored) of words of are slightly different on how its stored inside another brain. Means no two humans can relate to each other in terms of their emotions but can only speculate the parameters of other persons exact state of mind.
- Every human brain has an inbuilt operating system which remains unchanged but slowly evolving and continuously receiving data from nature which in turn process their stored memories and it also does the basic data in and out of brain in its own pattern. This is not a part of DNA if am not wrong in my deductions but more likely an external control from nature which takes away humans possibility of artificial breeding and helps balance the flow of thought across the species. So character = nature + nurture + c where c being the natures constant which obviously varies with people.
- Good and Bad is dependent on this operating systems preferences and people with similar operating systems or its slight variations appear as good to each brain and the the more it differs with its operating system, its counted as Bad. Like how in computer world diff OS's cannot interact btween each other without a common language.
- Operating systems from each individual brains can be grouped to some extend but due to the limitations in explaining the parameters in any language, it can be really confusing to ordinary people.


** use of the word operating system is mentioned as an easier way to compare and comprehend without touching information's which might invite slight prejudice.
** If nature does control our physical features, its only logical to deduct that our thoughts are also controlled by nature in a finer manner. DNA only contributes to the least deductible entity of our physical factors. It doesn't control thoughts not more than any computer hardware does.

 

Curious: why is it that the discussion has derailed off onto a discussion about the nature or morality?

 

moral standards being part of the deal which every God from history has promised to humans apart from the permanent membership in heaven, i guess its only natural to discuss various aspects.

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What god promised moral standards?

 

None so far.

[/quote]What reason do people observe the existence of God?[/quote]

You would have to ask the person in question. But the fantasy of god has been well marketed for a very long time. I appeals to any number of baser human motivations. Lust for heaven, fear of hell, ignorance of the unknown, bigotry against out groups, hoary dogmatism...

There is no doubt the gods which get worshipped are gods of the imagination.

 

You put ... there but I have to mention also fear of the unknown & arrogant conceit.