Live Baby thrown in Garbage at Abortion Clinic

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by madanthonywayne, Feb 6, 2009.

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  1. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    To be human is just to be a member of a particular species. The morally significant question is whether we are dealing with a [enc]person[/enc], or not.

    The simplistic argument against abortion goes like this:

    1. It is always wrong to kill an innocent person.
    2. A foetus is an innocent person.
    3. Therefore, abortion is always wrong.

    This argument is vulnerable to attack on either or both of points 1 and 2.

    On point (1), it is not always wrong to kill an innocent person. One classic example is killing one to save many others. Now, think how this might be applied in the case of abortion.

    On point (2), we can argue about when a foetus achieves personhood, and if it indeed does so any time prior to birth (or even for some time after birth).

    Since I have discussed these issues in depth before, I won't repeat myself again here and now. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them.
     
    James R, Feb 7, 2009
    #41

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  3. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What really gets me about this is that they did not even check to see if the baby was dead before throwing it. Perhaps they don't want the responsibility of making a decision about a child that the mother did not want. Either way, a baby at that age is already so challenged by poor lung development that to put it in a plastic bag and put it in the trash seems to me an ultimate statement on how uncaring we have become.
     
    S.A.M., Feb 7, 2009
    #42

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  5. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Do you still like humanity ?
     
    Enmos, Feb 7, 2009
    #43

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  7. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Not those that have lost theirs.

    What happened to the child? Did it die?
     
    S.A.M., Feb 7, 2009
    #44
  8. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    The thing is, we are all incredibly alike.
     
    Enmos, Feb 7, 2009
    #45
  9. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
    Enmos, Feb 7, 2009
    #46
  10. copernicus66

    copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Why the outrage? A baby is a 'parasite', albeit a slightly less invasive (but more demanding) one than the fetus.
     
    copernicus66, Feb 7, 2009
    #47
  11. copernicus66

    copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    copernicus66, Feb 7, 2009
    #48
  12. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yes it is isn't it? That baby is a medical mirace

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    On October 24th 2006, Amillia Taylor was born at 21 weeks and six days. No baby born at less than 23 weeks gestation had ever survived, but 10 ounce Amillia was able to pull through (and even was trying to breath and cry on her own at birth). Hospitals had initially hoped to release her yesterday, but decided to keep the now healthy baby a few extra days for observation.

    She's lucky to have made it.
     
    S.A.M., Feb 7, 2009
    #49
  13. Orleander

    Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I can't see where it says the baby was alive when it was thrown away. And this woman was there to have the fetus killed but was horrified that it was? Isn't this what abortion clinics do? They kill fetuses?

    Was she charged with the death or just disposing of it improperly?
     
    Orleander, Feb 7, 2009
    #50
  14. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    If you follow the link and read the whole article you'll see that the baby was born alive. The autopsy showed it's lungs were inflated which means it was breathing until it was thrown into the plastic garbage bag.
     
    madanthonywayne, Feb 7, 2009
    #51
  15. Roman

    Roman Banned Banned

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    Roman, Feb 7, 2009
    #52
  16. Orleander

    Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I read that. How do they know it was still breathing in the bag? It was born breathing, but isn't it possible it died after one breath?
     
    Orleander, Feb 7, 2009
    #53
  17. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I've got a feeling there's an old aborigine guy somewhere still telling that story about what some white guys will believe.

    It's normal to discard earlier miscarriages as medical waste, without checking to see if they are alive. All hospitals and all miscarrying women that I know of do that.

    I'm still not seeing an explanation from the prolife folks about what makes this situation different, in their view, from an ordinary miscarriage at six weeks.

    I know what makes it different in my view, but I'm not the one claiming all abortion is murder.
     
    iceaura, Feb 8, 2009
    #54
  18. Orleander

    Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I read the mother is suing for pain and suffering. She went through a horrible trauma watching the baby die.
    Why did she go there??
     
    Orleander, Feb 8, 2009
    #55
  19. copernicus66

    copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Un-fucking-believable. You should be able to look something in the eye before killing it. If you can't do that, then perhaps you shouldn't be taking a life, or taking the cowardly way out by paying someone else to do it for you.
     
    copernicus66, Feb 8, 2009
    #56
  20. draqon

    draqon Banned Banned

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    Suing who? Herself?
     
    draqon, Feb 8, 2009
    #57
  21. shorty_37

    shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Link??
     
    shorty_37, Feb 8, 2009
    #58
  22. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    You touched on one word that is vital to this whole story.

    The child was born. It was not aborted. It was born and born alive at that.

    She was given medication to induce her.. the abortion should have come just before that and then she would have gone into labour and that would have been the completion of the abortion. But she delivered the child and it was alive. Now most normal people at any medical clinic, abortion or otherwise, would have given the child the medical help it needed. They would have at the very least called for an ambulance or had a doctor on hand to provide medical assistance. But they did not. The staff at the clinic failed to provide any medical care for the child when it was born alive and it failed to provide her with any medical care or counseling either.

    So the child wasn't aborted. It was born alive and then killed when it was put in a plastic bag and disposed of.

    This woman didn't go there to give birth to a live baby and then have it placed in a plastic bag and disposed of. That is vastly different to an abortion. And abortion clinics usually do not kill the fetus after it is born.

    For an abortion. But what happened was not an abortion. The child was born alive and taken from her and placed in a plastic bag and she was then sedated. It was still attached to its umbilical cord and attached to her. The cord was then cut and the baby scooped into a plastic bag while it was still breathing. That is not an abortion. That is a horrific scenario that should never have occurred.
     
    Bells, Feb 8, 2009
    #59
  23. copernicus66

    copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Why do you consider that such a defining difference? What does it matter if the child was killed inside or outside of the womb?
     
    copernicus66, Feb 8, 2009
    #60
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