The infinite universe

Does this mean it is a closed system? I'm not exactly sure how the whole quanta popping in and out of existence thing works, but I was told that infinity is the largest distance possible, when talking about physical terms. I was asking about the limitations of gravity, and they told me I was confusing the specific type of mathematics where infinities are larger than others and real life. So, it seems to me that it is impossible for anything to be "outside" the universe if it is infinitely big, using standard ways of thinking. But then I also thought, what if it didn't extend infinitely in every dimension, and that it may be a closed system the way we think, but it actually isn't because we're disregarding the upper dimensions. Of course by we, I mean freshmen in high school. So, is the universe a closed system or not, assuming it is infinitely big, which I also have some questions about :\

 

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By definition, yes.
The universe is all there is

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Where did you learn it's infinitely big ?

 

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I never learned that it was, I always thought it had to be finite, but someone said something that got me thinking, and I thought the universe might be like a piece of plastic in the sun, where some places expand and some places contract, while it is still infinite, then I realized that the entire universe could be expanding while it is still being infinitely big, and so I'm not too sure about what I think now. If I could know what the physical boundary of the universe was made of, I could be so much more sure of so many things. If the big bang happened a finite amount of time ago, and there are things in that big bang, how is that supposed to make the universe infinitely big now if things are limited by the speed of light? One last question, I know gravity is limited by infinity, so is gravity as fast as the speed of light, or infinity?

 

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I'm by no means an expert on this type of stuff though. But the following is how I see things..

I think you need to stop thinking about 'the boundary of the universe'. I don't think that it's helpful in any way.

Not. But no one knows whether or not the big bang was actually the beginning of everything. The universe might be fluctuating.

I don't know what 'gravity is limited by infinity' means. Explain ?
Perhaps you mean that gravity is instant ? I guess you're right.

But, again. I might get my ass kicked for some of the "answers" I gave here

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Space is the a priori form of our intuition (Kant). See Critique of Pure Reason Antinomies Nos. 1 and 2. It is both infinitely divisible and infinitely extendable (Euclid).

 

My guess is it isn't a closed system. No 1 knows yet. No Earthian yet knows of anything outside our known universe. Closed or not, there may be much more to our universe than we are currently able to detect.
Nothing can pop in & out of existence. Something might pop in & out of our awareness or current detectability.
No infinity can be larger than another.
If you're referring to theories of possible upper dimensions of our universe, that would be aspects of our universe we have yet to detect or prove. As to parrallel universes, each universe would be all that exists in that plane.
Perhaps our known universe is like a local galaxy group & there are many others way way out there. Once we know this, we'll need another name for our local group of galaxy groups (a cosmi?) & the word universe should then be applied to the bigger picture.

 

For the universe to be an open system there needs to be an 'outside the universe'. This cannot be since the concept 'universe' encapsulates all.

 

How can a universe expand?, matter/energy can expand into already existing empty space I agree. What would the "universe" be expanding into exactly?, you have 'something' and claim it expands into nothingness, bringing existence and empty space along for the ride.

Just because energy/matter has been observed to expand this does not mean existence and space itself is expanding with it, Energy/mass dont require space itself to expand, go blow up a baloon, you didn't just expand time and space itself while blowing air into a baloon and watched it expand, you just blew a baloon up and it filled a greater amount of space with its increased size.


We can't even test or examine empty space as it has no energy level or mass to even observe. It actualy defies the laws of physics by not being physical at all.

peace.

 

Not empty space, nothing. The universe creates space.

 

So what is space.


peace.

 

You'll have to ask someone with more knowledge about this stuff than I have

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The fabric of space though, I'd say, is made up of dimensions. But your next question will of course be "what are dimensions ?"

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Ofcourse that is my next question,

But anyway, Space itself is not actualy a physical entity it goes against what we usualy understand as real, you can't even look at it to observe it, your gaze goes straight through it, same as your touch and all other human senses. Our five senses cannot detect space, our sight can observe the distance between 2 objects and see howmuch space is in-between.


Even when space is occupied by physical maatter it still remains beyond it, say a ball was traveling from point A to point B, every squre inch of space that ball passes through remains unchanged and the same. The ball does not warp or remove space for a slight duration while matter occupies its physical place in the universe. Like when writting with a pencil on a piece of paper, even when the pencil markings are on the surface of the paper itself remains underneath. Get an eraser/rubber remove the markings and the empty blank space remains.


The universe is like that piece of paper, but it is is not 2D and it is not made of a physical canvas. Matter and energy are not all that exist, they are what our senses can pick up alone, non physical things that are beyond a normal comprehension based on observational study exist, they cannot be explained using our regular understanding of physical existence, space is not physical it has no properties to study or even present data on.

The scientific physical data on space = 0 energy 0 mass, non existent.

0+0=0 to ge a 1 or 2 you must start with atleast 1 or 2, therefore space has always existed, Time is a construct of the mortal mind based on motion and distance, a measuring device that we use to represent events that take place based on cycles. in 1 hour many actions, causes and effects take place. We measure events with motion and cycles, Time is an absttract.



peace.

peace.

 

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=86702


Here is a link to a discussion i just noticed, the connection is that spcae itself is the Aether/Ether whatever you prefer to call it. It canot be detected by physical means because it is very clearly a non physical entity/energy/thing.


peace.

 

Here we go again.

 

Well, I am going to stay out of it from now on. Anything else I would post would have to be pure speculation.

 

Speculation should be fine as long as it's clear that it's speculation.

 

It's all speculation, apart from my speculation is more logical and is clerly the best, take your expanding universe witchcraft to the religion forum with the other nutjobs.

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peace.

 

What you said about space isn't speculation. Space is a word with a definition which fits what you said. If there is any fabric or aether or whatever, it's IN space not space itself & that is not speculation.

 

So how do you know space itself is not an Ether and has qualities of an underlying energy/fabric but its energy level is beyond our senses aility to pick up on it.

I personaly believe space itself is an energy and fabric, it clearly exists but has no physical qualities to examine. How do you propose that something without physical energy/matter exists in the first place?.


We come up with many fantastic and bizzare explanations to explain space, How can something non physical exist in the physical universe?. Is the universe physical? or is the matter and energy physical alone?.


peace.

 

WTF? Am I on Candid Camera? Did you suddenly switch positions?