Evolution v Intelligent Design; Should we really teach evolution?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Norsefire, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    But some things allow us to survive and reproduce with better success. Like vaccinations and internal combustion.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_theory


    The edit doesn't add to your argument though, it's just an interesting fact

    All. Not most. I simply said "most" since I usually say "most" instead of "all" when talking about different things.

    How is it contrary?

    The begining of the universe doesn't help us. It's about knowing though.
    Again, it's about the pursuit of knowledge.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    Ownt. Didn't think about it like that.
     
  8. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    My point was, it doesn't rely on evidence. It doesn't have evidence beyond mathematics in being theoretical physics.

    Do you consider the string theory in the same league as pink unicorns? I don't. That's what I'm trying to get you to understand: ID is mathematically a very real possibility. It's not an absurd idea.
     
  9. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,538
    It worked for Tom Cruise.
     
  10. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    Where's the math to be worked out in ID? There isn't any, there's the difference.
    lol
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    The notion that higher life forms somehow affected our own development, to me, is not ridiculous. It doesn't have evidence, but the concept itself, is not absurd, to me.
     
  12. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Possibilities. All things which occur are either caused or occur naturally. Therefore, it remains a real possibility that Humanity was "caused", or in other words, a mathematical possibility we were created. It isn't an absurd notion.

    Again, do you consider string theory in the same league as pink unicorns?
     
  13. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    A REAL possibility? I don't understand how Humanity COULD have been caused, maybe that's where I am going wrong. Shouldn't there be some evidence left over from the DNA(and whatever) altering? There isn't any, while there is for evolution. What should have been payed more attention was someone's question to you asking whether you know what Occam's Razor is. Clearly, you do not.

    Course not, pink unicorns' existence doesn't make sense to me, M-Theory does.
     
  14. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    What evidence? I mean, you don't know what evidence you're looking for in order to find it. It's like if I put you in a room filled with junk, and simply said "find it", without ever telling you what "it" is. You can't find it becuase you don't know what you're looking for.

    As a real possibility, it is just that, a real possibility. What is so hard to understand that Humans could have been created or guided in their development? It's not that crazy of an idea. It also doesn't exclude evolution in this view; in fact, such higher forms of life could've specifically implemented some sort of eugenics to advance our species.

    I'm glad you understand that not all concepts are the same.
     
  15. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    Uh oh, I might have just wasted a lot of your time. I completely agree that it's possible it could've happened that way, it's just outrageous to think it did. There's a mathematical chance this laptop could fall through the table I'm sitting at, but it won't.
     
  16. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    A low mathematical chance. ID isn't absurd, or outrageous. Frankly, we were either created or we came to be naturally. The scale tips in favor of evolution, sure, but not so much that ID becomes such a drastically low and ridiculous idea.

    Also, yes it's outrageous to BELIEVE it did, but the supposition itself isn't outrageous. It should be left an open possibility, because it's a very real one.

    Edit: Betrayer, see 1:14-1:30 of the video.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  17. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    First, to the edit, Richard Dawkins was lied to before that interview.

    Fine, it should be left an open possibility, only if it somehow works with evolution. Evolution is undeniable, a little googling will show that. Speciation has been observed, things have "transformed" into things more complex. It's much much much more likely that evolution is true, so back to the original question, of course evolution should be taught in schools instead of ID.

    I'm leaving this topic though, another time probably. It's been nice talking to you Norsefire.
     
  18. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    What?

    It doesn't necessarily matter if it works or it doesn't work with evolution, because the question is about the origin life complex life, not what happens to it. The level of complexity that we Humans posess seems far beyond what evolution could lead to, IMO.

    Evolution and ID should both be taught IMO, but NOT as facts. Only as theories, or ideas.

    Also how can you determine what is much more likely?
     
  19. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,311
    Couldn't help it, I'm here to say (hopefully) one last thing. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html and
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html.

    There aren't any limitations on evolution. If aliens could modify our genes, can't we just make ourselves super complex and smart, and with that new smartness make ourselves even more smart?

    A theory is an idea, but an idea isn't a theory. See link one.

    You can determine which is more likely because Evolution has evidence, while ID only has a mathematical probability of existing.
     
  20. Myles Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,553
    You are confusing abiogenesis with evolution.

    The only way to decide whether ID has any value is to study evolutionary theory, then listen to what Creationists have to say and weigh things up for yourself. It requires a bit of work to do so but it is infinitely better than wasting time repeating arguments which have been refuted over and over. Creationism has nothing going for it other than a determination to twist some facts, deny others and to mislead those who have no knowledge of evolutionary theory.

    Don't ask others; find out for yourself !
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  21. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    Why?
    What makes you believe that?
    That's what I don't get.
     
  22. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Because he doesn't understand it. My guess is that he doesn't understand it because he never bothered to learn about it.
     
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

    Messages:
    16,330
    why does evolution move towards more complex systems (as opposed to simple systems) to better the chance of survival via natural selection?
    Or why does matter come to take on life (aka abiogenesis) for the same reason?
    Or given the complex information structures that surround genes, how did the means to read molecular information arise separate from a living cell?
    etc etc
     

Share This Page