Does Hitler deserve respect?

Discussion in 'History' started by Norsefire, Jul 25, 2008.

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Does Hitler deserve respect?

  1. Yes

    43.3%
  2. No

    56.7%
  1. Kadark Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,724
    Hitler was a manipulatively brilliant leader who took a country helplessly in debt, and turned it into a global superpower. He truly did desire Aryan control of worldwide resources and manpower, and he knew the greatest obstacle standing in his way was the international bankers (who had a notorious reputation of funding both sides during warfare). Karl Ritter discovered that many of these bankers were Jewish, just as many other architects of Nazism noted. The solution was to erase the Jewish "race", taking with it the parasitic money-lenders of Europe. The problem? Instead of targeting only those who were responsible, Hitler simply killed tons of innocent Jews, and failed in succeeding his goals. He committed grave tragedies, of course; however, his economic prowess, passion, and convincing demeanor are respectable qualities. Ergo, I believe Hitler does deserve respect.

    Kadark the Royal
     
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  3. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Let's set aside the details - some of which I disagree with quite a bit. Let's look at your overall analysis. He had effective qualities that you list. He had bad qualities. Fine. You can respect the effective ones. But you cannot then

    sum up

    and say he deserved respect.

    To take this leap at face value is both illogical and to pretend I am naive. It is not logical to sum up and say he is deserving of respect. What it is is provocative. You know how this summing up will affect certain people, and whether or not you are aware of you real motives, this is your goal. Otherwise you would be content with saying 'he was skilled at revving up a crowd' or whatever. To end on a general simple sentence saying he deserves respect is like pissing on someone's grave in front of her family.
     
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  5. Kadark Banned Banned

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    I'm not trying to provoke anybody, thank you very much.

    "He killed lots of Jews, and you respect him! What are you, some kind of an anti-Semite?"

    That's essentially what you're saying, isn't it? Of course, it's completely wrong. Richard the Lionheart, a crusader who took the lives of so many Muslims, is somebody I respect - not admire. Surprisingly enough, I'm Muslim myself. Does this, in turn, mean I am attempting to provoke Muslims, or that I have hidden motives intended to harmfully affect Muslims? Of course not. Hitler was a horrible man, just like Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, etc.

    I still respect all of them.

    Kadark the Khan
     
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  7. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Hitler is recent compared to Richard the Lionhearted. You have also stated that it is true that the Jews unleashed chaos in Germany.

    If someone said that Muslims unleashed chaos in the Middle East and this was part of why Richard the Lionhearted crusaded there and this happened recently I'll bet you would have a harder time saying you respected him AS A SUMMATION.

    You fail to address the main point. If you had simply listed details about Hitler
    I respect his ability to sway a crowd.
    I do not respect his stubborness.

    and so on.

    That would be one thing.

    But you could not resist making a summation.

    I am not saying you are consciously trying to provoke people.

    It could quite possibly be unconscious.
     
  8. lepustimidus Banned Banned

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    Mr. Spock:
    You have some rather strange sexual fantasies, I must say.
     
  9. Kadark Banned Banned

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    No, I truly wouldn't. Richard the Lionheart was an amazing commander and warrior, which is why I respect him. However, the fact that he left cities knee-high in blood is why I could never admire him.

    I needed to make a summation, considering the poll was asking me, "Yes or no, does Hitler deserve respect?" I wrote about what Hitler was good at, what he did wrong, and arrived at a conclusion. What's wrong with that? Everybody who has voted in this poll has done the exact same thing.

    Well, you're wrong.

    Kadark the Tyrant
     
  10. John99 Banned Banned

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    22,046
    Seems to me that you are wrong. Hitler and those around him had a distorted view of Eugenics. This explains why they also went after other specific groups. Strange thing is that this interpretation is not even accurate and possibly a contradiction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    Yes, that's what I mean. You can respect him and not agree with him.


    In terms of influence and accomplishment, very few come close to Hitler.
     
  12. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,461
    Look, he probably had a greater impact on the 20th century than any other human being. I agree with you that he deserves a hot poker up the ass, but I also respect his accomplishments. As I respect the accomplishments of Napolean, or Ceasar, Hannible, or even Ghengis Khan.

    I don't think respect has to mean you admire someone. It simply means you acknowledge the magnitude of their achievements and/or power.
     
  13. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Exactly.
     
  14. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    3,634
    Personally, as a matter of word choice, I would say that one can soberly assess the power of another and understand his or her capabilities and role in history and yet not "respect" that person. If nothing else the risk of confusing the primary meaning of respect in this context (to "esteem" or "admire") with what I take to be a secondary meaning ("have an awareness of the dangerous qualities of") makes me wary of using the term.

    Dean Arthur Schwartzmiller, the serial child molester, is (and would be again, were he ever released from prison) a significant threat to children living in his neighborhood. From what I have read, it seems he is a very bright and articulate man (which no doubt helped him in his quest to molest children). Still, I would not say he "deserves respect" as a matter of conversation.

    I think it is good for people to study and learn about people like him, and to come to understand the danger he poses and his qualities and talents may enhance that danger, but one can definitely fdo that without "respecting *him*" as opposed to the danger he poses.

    If your respect is for a given person, then I think one can say that a person may "deserve respect." If one respects a particular trait then I am less comfortable with the notion of saying that the person with the trait "deserves" respect. Tidal waves are powerful, but I don't think I would say that they "deserve respect" except (to me) in a figurative sense.

    Again, in this case in particular, I am circumspect because I take the primary meaning of "respect" as an attitude of admiration. I understand that Hitler was dangerous. He should be studied and understood so that red hot iron pokers can be applied to other like him in the future before they can cause harm, but he should not be admired or held in high regard.

    As such, even if a certain, esteem-free, definition of the term "respect" is intended that is applicable to the man (rather than certain isolated traits), and even if a definition can be found rendering him "deserving" of that respect, one runs a risk in saying "Hitler deserves respect" that certain others hearing it will some degree of admiration attaches.

    I'd avoid using the term "respect" in reference to criminals for that reason, and the likes of a Stalin or a Hitler or an Osama bin Laden all the moreso. They are historically important figures, but as they are villains, they are not the objects of my respect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008
  15. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,671
    Heh, nobody knows much personal stuff about him. He had a huge personal library and was well read. On the other hand W reads on te 3rd grader level...
     
  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    33,264
    Just what did he accomplish? He destroyed Germany, he cast a pall over the world, he started World War 2, he exterminated those who didn't go along with his ideas, he only thought that one kind of human was the best of everyone else. Does that deserve any respect, hell no!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    He can just keep eating shit .
     
  17. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    And a military incompetent who over-rode his generals at nearly every opportunity.
    Hardly "absolute genius".....
     
  18. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Sort of like we respect malaria. Which has Hitler beat on the death toll.
     
  19. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    Accomplishments of Hitler:
    (1) Taking a reconstructed economy and destroying it
    (2) Killing 6 million+ innocent citizens
    (3) Beginning the most destructive war in history
    (4) Losing the most destructive war in history
    (5) Causing the divide of Germany
    (6) Cause Germany to lose nearly all of it's greatest minds

    His skills as a speaker aside, Hitler was largely helped by those around him. There were some brilliant military minds in the Nazi organization, but Hitler was not one of them.

    As far as I can tell he was a poor general who destroyed his own nation and millions around him without accomplishing anything. Having a certain type of respect for the Great Kahns I can understand; they accomplished remarkable feats and held onto them. Hitler accomplished nothing good for himself or others.
     
  20. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    12,461
    Because he was an evil bastard, you're trying to diminish his accomplishments. He rose from practically nothing to leadership of Germany, then took over most of Europe, and in the end it took the combined military might of the rest of the world to defeat him.

    Pretty impressive if you ask me.
     
  21. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,383
    Hitler had a great ability to motivate, persuade, intimidate, and lead. He was hit and miss as a tactician. Some of his tactics worked very well and some flopped.

    He turned Germany into a more powerful force than anybody expected it could be but even so Germany was not as powerful a force as would be required to do what Hitler tried to get Germany to do. Hitler bit off more than Germany could chew.

    What Hitler wanted Germany to do was just plain evil. Hitler ability to tell right from wrong was completely lacking. Hitler was one sick confused puppy. The German people failed miserably by not realizing that Hitler was one sick confused puppy.

    Many Americans have the same weakness that Germans had and can not tell that the egotistic patriotism driving them to support leaders who want to dominate the world is wrong. In most of the other nations you can also see that nasty egotistical patriotism is latent and waiting for a Hitler type to lead it. Hitler was not the real problem. Violent egotistical patriotism is the real problem.

    Chimpanzees need the emotions and instincts that underly this violent egotistical patriotism in order for bands to maintain and enlarge territories and thereby spread their DNA. Chimpanzees do Genocide on weaker bands in neighboring territories. It makes sense for Chimpanzees to do this from a Darwinistic game theory point of view. WE humans are no longer living Chimpanzee style and we aspire to be more civilized than Chimpanzees. To succeed in being more than just animals we humans need to recognize our instinctual urge to violence against the others and domination of others and we must refuse to give in to this urge and we must refuse to choose leaders who are promoting this urge.

    Hitler did have talent but he used that talent for evil.
     
  22. Jetex Jim Registered Member

    Messages:
    68
    People always think of Hitler's talents has a public speaker, I think his skills go deeper than that.

    Hitlers regime, pre war pulled Germany out of the economic chaos of the Waimer Republic. He did that by applying the very 'Keynesisan' economic strategy of spending on public works. As a result the German economy had recovered from the global economic depression of the day, quicker even than the USA. After that Germans thought he could work wonders.

    His second major card, the institutionalised persecution of a minority group, was not invented by him. Moreover anti-semitism had roots much older than Hitler. Martin Luther, the German Reformation leader wrote about it in the 1543 and its roots in general form are probably much older.

    Hitler was playing an old political game by scapegoating a minority group and Luther's writings gave his line some (spurious) authority.

    Respect for Hitler, no. Should we take note of how he did it? Oh yes.
     
  23. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    7,536
    Respect your enemy.

    nuff said.
     

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