I've never, in my entire life, seen two gay animals going at it. Yeah, I've seen animals fuck before - from little bugs to dogs - but they've always been heterosexual in nature.
If an embryo is subjected to high levels of the inappropriate hormones at the wrong time in development perhaps that could have an effect? This would then be nurture or nature? I think there is a statistical increase in second sons being gay. From the standpoint of an alpha male perhaps it makes sense to have a lot of stong gay males to protect his women?
Kadark male dolphins give other male doliphins head all the time (not sure i would want my dick near there teath concidering how sharp they are but *shrug*). there have also been reports of swans marrying other swans of the same sex
you pick up quite a lot of mostly useless facts if you live long enough Homosexuality in nature has been known for AGES (would say as long as we have been able to think) but people who are anti homosexuality like to argue that its "ALPHA male showing domance over submissive males" and then go on to argue that homosexuality DOESNT exist in nature so its unnatural. Its a delibrate tactic from the biggots like Kadark and Norsefire. They want to twist the facts to suite there own interest when the facts dont agree with them. Its sad but there isnt much you can do about it
ahh but the the interesting thing is that you are so sure of this that you are willing to call someone who disagrees or suggests otherwise a biggot couldnt it be true that both nature and nurture both play a role yes it is true that some people are naturally timid or submissive but obsessive moms that dont let thier kids play in the back yard without a helmet and compass or better yet, implant a gps tracking device on thier kids, dont help the teletubbies dont help a guy growing up with five older sisters doesnt help there are way too many variables to this that you cant just point the finger in one direction and say the culprits over there you cant prove any of it
also when you say that homosexuality in nature has been known for ages, you must understand that all living creatures do think beyond thier NATURAL instinct and can produce thought, the level of thought differs greatly between species of animalia but thought exists none the less. which throws one big ass wrench in the gears of your biggest piece of evidence
PJ: Since rampant homophobia has historically been the order of the day, are you surprised? It is probaly not uncommon for gay people to try sex with the opposite sex first, to be absolutely sure that they are not that way inclined. Is that what you're talking about? There are huge social pressures to conform to a heterosexual stereotype, you know. As madanthonywayne said, not every trait is adaptive. If a trait is not harmful, it can persist in a population. There are other theories, too. One has to do with genes shared among kin. For example, if you have a gay brother, he shares 50 percent of your genes. Therefore, it is not just in your interest that you reproduce; it is also in his interest. So, one way he can propagate some of his genes is by protecting and supporting you, so that you have children. If he is gay, he can devote a lot of time and effort to his nieces and nephews, since he may have no children of his own. In a clan situation, having members who have no direct family interests but many indirect interests they help to protect may be an evolutionary advantage. That's just one idea, of course. One idea (and again it is only one idea) is that homosexuality is due to a "switch" gene. Theoretically, those who carry two copies of the gene (or combination of the correct genes) have a 50% chance of being homosexual. If this is true, we would expect 12.5% of the population to be homosexual. It is wrong to infer that because something is not yet known, it will never be known. By the same argument, anybody living before 1950 would have said the microwave oven would never be invented, because history had shown it hadn't been invented before. You seem to want a bet each way. On the one hand, you seem to be arguing that homosexuality is not genetic, then in the next breath you want to put it down to a "genetic abnormality". SAM: How would you suggest we examine the causality in the case of homosexuality? What experiments do you suggest? River Ape: Where are you getting your statistics from? Please post a link. This is interesting - if it is true. Again, where are your statistics on that? Kadark: Your personal lack of experience really doesn't count for much.
maybe not so a warm environment turned a male species into fags reducing the temp reverted back to hetero i'll browse history to identify organism i am conflicted but can live wirh a epigenetic explanation actual hereditary would blow me aeay there is a corresponding brain structure that is indicates gayness by the way, prostrate stimulation makes way for explosive orgasms
I'd be interested in a article about said organism. Yes, there is a corresponding brain structure but it could have been caused by both nature and nurture. Personally, I think homosexuality has both a genetic as a nurture aspect. Nurture in the broadest sense that is. I suspect prebirth hormone levels or toxins have something to do with it as well. I don't like the phrase "Nature or nurture" much, since nurture is obviously nature as well. I don't know why people just call it by its name and say "Genetic or nurture".
On the question whether 'gayness' is caused by nature or by nurture. Maybe I misinterpreted your comment "nice yet controversial", I thought it was a reaction to my post.
If gayness is not natural then I'm a monkey's uncle: Why there's even books on it. Homosexual Behaviour in Animals An Evolutionary Perspective Edited by Volker Sommer University College London Paul L. Vasey University of Lethbridge, Alberta And articles by proper scientists! http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16321985.000-queer-creatures.html and newspaper articles even: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/may/23/g2.conservationandendangeredspecies
Came across this on wikipedia, re homosexuality in animals: The most gay species in the world... some hot girl ape on girl ape action. Thats some strange stuff! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
