Proposal: That sex without consent is always rape.

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by James R, Jul 7, 2008.

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  1. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    ABS:

    You're wasting my time. I take it you are unwilling to debate me.

    Now, run along.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #101

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  3. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    You keep making the claim that I have said that nonconsentual sex is not rape.

    Will you back this statement up, or will you admit that you have done nothing but build a strawman this entire time?
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #102

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  5. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    How about the unsubstantiated position that I advocate nonconsensual sex? Do you call that rational? Cite your source, or back off.



    Who the fuck cares what Kadark's position is? No offense to Kadark, but we are talking about me at the moment.


    I'm not here to fight your battles for you James.



    You may have missed the posts where I came out against nonconsensual sex. Read back.



    James, what is it here? Do you just want to debate something with me? Anything? Why? If you want to debate that consensual sex between two adults is permissable, whether or not they have been drinking, and does not constitute rape, then bring it on. Otherwise, shut up.



    Yes, but where would the fun be in that?



    Fine. Take your shots, and get back to me....
     
    Randwolf, Jul 7, 2008
    #103

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  7. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    heh
    the obvious expectation is that the hookers are as dumb as you

    lemme role play for your sorry ass

    the demands are negotiated prior to actual rendezvous
    i do not like anal intercourse. however,for $200 the john can do me up the ass. the only things that get done are that which i agree to.
    if he gets rough with me all bets are off. smith and wesson or paco the pimp will handle it from there

    your territory is obviously the video rental store and the safety of your couch

    /sneer
     
    Gustav, Jul 7, 2008
    #104
  8. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    angrybellsprout:

    No, but never mind.

    Let's try to deal with this directly one last time. Here's how it works. I ask you a simple question. You answer with a simple "Yes" or "No."

    Here's the question:

    "Do you agree that sex without consent is always rape?"

    Over to you.

    If you answer "Yes", then we're done here. If you answer "No", or refuse to answer, we still have the possibility of a debate, if you're game.


    Randwolf:

    I think we have established quite clearly that you do not advocate nonconsensual sex.

    I'm happy to back off. Best wishes.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #105
  9. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    why in gods name would i debate THAT, you would win just by posting any of ABS's posts.

    My problem isnt with the statment SOME advocates are women haters, that would be like saying no femists are men haters which clearly there are.

    Your comment implied that all or at the very least MOST are:

    Now how does that tie with, the womens housing board calling for a mens housing board, Gay rights activists calling for laws to alow surogocy and gay adoption for gay men, doctors and the families of men who have died of prostate cancer (this one IS personal, my grandfather died from postate cancer) calling for more resorces for prostate cancer treatment, surport and resurch, and people calling for recognition that males are the victoms of domestic vilonce and sexual assult are MUCH less likly to report which means a sexist campaine like howards is compleatly counter productive and more funding needs to be put into shelters for men, advocasy services, public awearness ect of this issue. Not to mention people working to outlaw male genital mutilation (again mainly womens groups). How can you call these workers and achademics "on the whole, narrow minded and selfish individuals". Especially when alot if not most of them are WOMEN
     
    Asguard, Jul 7, 2008
    #106
  10. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    I know I don't know much about SF as I am a noob, but Gustav, you are truly the wierdest fuck here. I love your posts...

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    oke:
     
    Randwolf, Jul 7, 2008
    #107
  11. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I'm sick of your strawmen.

    I talk about when both implicit and explicit consent are given, and you respond with some absurd accusation that I believe that nonconsentual sex is not rape.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #108
  12. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you. Maybe I can get some sleep now, as it is 3:00 AM where I am.

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    Randwolf, Jul 7, 2008
    #109
  13. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Asguard:

    Why in god's name would I argue that ALL mens' advocates are woman haters? That would be equally stupid.

    I said that in my own personal experience, many are. I have no reliable way of deciding whether most are or are not at this stage. I freely admit that I really haven't tried to find out.

    I didn't call any of those people anything. And I agree that those are all worthy causes.

    The thing is, my direct experience of self-described "men's rights activists" is confined to sciforums, so I was thinking mainly of examples like ABS and mountainhare. We've had other examples here, too. And there are many radical "mens' rights" loonies out there, just as there are many radical "feminist" loonies. These people give their causes a bad name. Just watch "A Current Affair" or "Today Tonight" for a while...
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #110
  14. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Still prevaricating, ABS?
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #111
  15. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Sorry if I kept you up.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #112
  16. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    um james IM a self confessed mens rights activist. I am going to do my resurch assignment on how postate cancer is treated compared to how breast cancer is (in funding, surport services ect). Why do you think i find the comment offencive.

    The difference is i also advocate for womens issues as well and tend to refer to myself as a human rights advocate because i cant stand either side of the debate.
     
    Asguard, Jul 7, 2008
    #113
  17. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    So says the person that replies to comments about two persons giving implicit and explicit consent by saying that they really think that nonconsentual sex is not rape?
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #114
  18. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Asguard:

    I'm not sure that I'd say mens' health issues are the same as mens' rights issues, unless you're talking about something like equal attention being paid without prejudice to the importance of, say, prostate cancer compared with breast cancer.

    If anything, I'd be more inclined to call you a mens' health advocate rather than an activist. Perhaps if you lobby health authorities and/or lead protests or have a "one-issue" website you might be an activist, but it doesn't sound to me like that's what you do, exactly.

    But maybe I'm splitting hairs here.


    angrybellsprout:

    I've asked you directly more than once, and you will not say that you believe that sex without consent is always rape.

    Your silence speaks for itself, does it not?

    Now, perhaps you wish to join with Kadark in arguing my proposed alternative topic: that if a woman withdraws consent during sex, no rape can be committed if the man continues anyway.

    Will you argue this narrower topic?
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #115
  19. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    i believe i have a workable analogy
    it deals with expectations either on an individual or societal level

    sally and jim make a date
    they have dinner, watch a movie then agree to fuck
    sally, for reasons unknown (irrelevant really), goes into coitus interruptus (pun) mode and walks away

    i believe sci holds that jim outta accept his lumps with equanimity and grace.
    i say no. it is ok to be frustrated and perhaps angry. i'd mock the bitch the next time i see her and bill her for her share of the nights expenses

    so the analogy
    not quite the best fit......
    sports. a match. a team walks off the field.
    what would be the comments in a situ like this?
    lemme illustrate with bill belichick

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    so there you have it, bitches
    it jes aint cricket!
     
    Gustav, Jul 7, 2008
    #116
  20. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    i am pretty sure i am in the wrong thread
     
    Gustav, Jul 7, 2008
    #117
  21. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I'm confused?
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #118
  22. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    no i am not (in the wrong thread)

    /beams
     
    Gustav, Jul 7, 2008
    #119
  23. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Current state of play:

    Randwolf and I have sorted out our differences, at least as far as this debate topic is concerned.

    angrybellsprout is petulantly refusing to say what he believes.

    Kadark has not agreed to a debate, even though he has clearly indicated that he thinks that sex without consent is fine in some circumstances.

    ---
    It has been 3 hours since I proposed this debate. Kadark has left for the moment. Nothing useful is coming from ABS.

    Now, I will leave this thread for 12 hours or a bit more, to give you both a chance to consider your positions.

    Let's see if you can get your acts together.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #120
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