Proposal: That sex without consent is always rape.

Discussion in 'Formal debates' started by James R, Jul 7, 2008.

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  1. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Bully for you. You win. How pathetic.



    I am not on record anywhere, at anytime, as advocating nonconsensual sex.



    What label would you prefer? Rational, at least on this subject, certainly doesn't cut it.



    James, calm down. This has been covered. No one is debating this!



    Yes I do. Can you really not read? I would have thought the 72 point type would have given my position away....



    What? You want to debate whether sex is OK when two adults explicitly and implicity consent to it? Alright, bring it on, I'm your huckleberry.



    I am telling you what I really think. Stop ducking and weaving like some sort of weasel. I believe that sex between two consenting adults is permissable, OK, alright, acceptable, etc. If one of those adults happens to have consumed alcohol, I do not presume to take away their sovereignity over their own body, apparently you do. How fucking hard is this for you to comprehend? You can try to twist my words around all you like, but you end up looking like the fool. I have followed your posts here on SF for a long time James, and I have never seen you act like this. Get real, find any post of mine that says, explicity or implicitly, that I endorse nonconsensual sex, or apologize. Now.
     
    Randwolf, Jul 7, 2008
    #81

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  3. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I just don't understand why James is so obsessed with his strawmen.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #82

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  5. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    draqon:

    You must be selective in reading my posts. I post on all kinds of topics, ranging from physics to psychology to this kind of thing. I certainly do not talk about rape "all the time". I'm glad my posts on the topic have such a high impact on you, though.

    Secondly, why assume that there is a particular event in my personal life that has led me to a particular point of view? For all you know, I might just be trying to balance up an unbalanced topic by taking the other side.

    Of course, in this case, that's not entirely true. In my experience (which is not direct, as it happens, except here) I have found self-described "mens' rights" advocates to be, on the whole, narrow minded and selfish individuals. And that strikes a nerve with me.

    It must be a deep psychological issue of mine. Or not.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #83

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  7. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Ok Kadark the wimp.

    Change the rules,

    make ONE post explaining your position why a women (or a man) doesnt have the right to say NO after they start. Explaine your full position and either james, bells or whoever can make one post stating why your an IDIOT.

    You can rebute that post and then end the thread if that suits you

    Or are you Kadark the chicken?
     
    Asguard, Jul 7, 2008
    #84
  8. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    How have you not seen this before? This is all that I've ever seen from him.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #85
  9. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    james again i find that insulting that you would suggest that because someone advocates mens issues they are sexist. What about the people who work on the prostate cancer board?
     
    Asguard, Jul 7, 2008
    #86
  10. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmm, he would be a she, idiot.
     
    Randwolf, Jul 7, 2008
    #87
  11. Gustav

    Gustav Banned Banned

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    ha
    obviously you did
    backhanded compliments deserve nothing less
    i do not take affront

    perhaps you think you have been brave or something?

    /snicker
     
    Gustav, Jul 7, 2008
    #88
  12. Randwolf

    Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    F**k off, James. I have not changed my position at all. Perhaps you should slow down, and attempt to read what is posted. Just a thought.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Randwolf, Jul 7, 2008
    #89
  13. shorty_37

    shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Listen just because I am a woman doesn't mean I can't kick your ass!!

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    /chuckles
     
    shorty_37, Jul 7, 2008
    #90
  14. Kadark

    Kadark Banned Banned

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    I don`t have to take this from an ugly dyslexic pussy-whipped loser like yourself. I already explained my position on this topic: you`re committed when you start, and unless there`s a legitimate excuse for demanding a halt, then you`re shit out of luck. It`s irrational, disruptive, unfair, and indecisive to demand the man to stop having sex after you`ve agreed and already started. None of those excuses, in my opinion, qualify as legitimate reasons. There you have it.

    Note: Sorry for the funny looking apostrophes. My keyboard is acting gay.

    Kadark the Boss
     
    Kadark, Jul 7, 2008
    #91
  15. shorty_37

    shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    I am just waiting for either James or Asguard to say.........

    I dare you.....actually I double dare you

    This is getting pretty funny.
     
    shorty_37, Jul 7, 2008
    #92
  16. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    actually after jame's comment im tempted to challange HIM to prove that people who work in mens health or advocate for male victoms of domestic vilonce are women haters
     
    Asguard, Jul 7, 2008
    #93
  17. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I'm still waiting for James to either start backing up his claims or to give up his strawmen.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #94
  18. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Randwolf:

    What have I said that is irrational? That's just another attempt to dismiss me with a label. Not unlike angrybellsprout's pathetic cries of "straw man", actually.

    Kadark's position is that in some cases nonconsensual sex is just fine. Do you agree? What do you get from his posts? You know, sex with a prostitute is fine under any circumstances, a wife owes her husband sex whether she wants it or not, etc.

    You may have missed the post where I suggested we debate the conditions under which consent might or might not be implied. Read back.

    Apparently you think I do. This is something we could debate, as I suggested earlier, but it would require a different topic statement.

    When you initially posted in this thread that you agreed that sex without consent is always rape, I said "Fine. I have no issue with you." Read back, if you've forgotten. For some reason, you chose to continue to post, as if we still have a disagreement. You could have simply bowed out of this challenge at the point where you agreed with me.

    Now, it seems to me that we do potentially have some areas of disagreement about the possibility of rape in an atmosphere where consent is implied but not explicit. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure about that; it's something I'd need to explore further with you. But that has nothing to do with the proposed topic of debate in this thread. I'd really rather dismiss the easy targets, like Kadark and ABS, first, with their nonsense that you can't rape a prostitute, and such. But I'm willing to consider a more nuanced debate as a separate issue, as I've said.

    I'm sorry if I appear to have landed on you from a great height. I let a lot of things slip by on sciforums without comment, but in this case I had some free time and decided to prod some people to see how committed they actually were to their point of view. You have been caught up in the net on this occasion. There's nothing personal in it, by the way. I hold no grudge against you, and I hope the same can be said in reverse. It should be possible to debate contentious issues in a civilised way. That is one reason why I set up the Formal Debates forum in the first place.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #95
  19. Kadark

    Kadark Banned Banned

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    What do you get from his posts? You know, sex with a prostitute is fine under any circumstances.

    Is that what I said? Let`s examine:

    Of course not. If she's on her "work" hours, then obviously not. Prostitutes know that sex can and will be rough with unknown males, and prostitutes know full well that they're going to have to do things with men that they don't want to do. It comes with the territory.

    You were saying?

    Kadark the Unique
     
    Kadark, Jul 7, 2008
    #96
  20. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Randwolf:

    You call me an idiot for making an innocent mistake? Why? More labelling?

    Apologies to visceral, by the way.


    Kadark:

    To make this quite clear, let's take a hypothetical. Man A is having sex with woman B, who initially consented to sex. Before the man reaches climax, woman B says "Wait, I don't like this. Stop!" But he continues.

    You believe that the man is then under no obligation to stop. In fact, it is just fine for him to continue until he is "done".

    Note that after she says "Stop" there is no consent. Therefore, you are arguing that sex without consent is NOT rape in this case.

    I challenge you to a debate on this single issue alone, if you have no other arguments. I suggest a change of topic, if you agree, to:

    "That a woman cannot revoke her consent during sex."

    or

    "A man who continues to have sex with a woman after being asked to stop does not commit rape."

    Will you debate either of these topics with me?


    ABS:

    I will "back up" all my arguments in a formal debate.

    Do you wish to change your mind and have a debate? Yes or no?
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #97
  21. Asguard

    Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    James i challage you to a debate that all advocates for mens issues are women haters

    Its the third time at least you have made that claim now, the first was when we were debating if the howard "vilonce against women" campaine was sexist
    The second was earlier this morning and yes you apologised but then you repeated it here
     
    Asguard, Jul 7, 2008
    #98
  22. angrybellsprout

    angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I'm still waiting for you to point out where I ever said that nonconsentual sex is not rape.
     
    angrybellsprout, Jul 7, 2008
    #99
  23. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Asguard:

    No thanks. I do not believe that all advocates for mens' issues are women haters. Some certainly are, though.

    I would be willing to debate the topic "No advocates for mens' issues are women haters". I will argue that some are. Agreed?

    I think you're misreading me.
     
    James R, Jul 7, 2008
    #100
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