Which Western countries allows killing of animals for food without bleeding out? I only know the laws of Germany and they do not allow any other method. Electrocution is only supposed to make the actual cut less painful, but with the exception of religious reasons (freedom of religion supersedes animal protection in Germany) you have to kill animals in a (supposedly) painless way.
How painless is it? In reality, factory farms are deplorable. Don't know if all animals are bled out, I buy kosher meat.
You are defining pain too narrowly. It is unpleasant in the extreme to have one's throat cut. And there is always vegetarianism. Or even reducing the amount of meat to a minimum. This frees up a lot of vegetable protein and arable land. I can see how nomads are in a different position, but any city dwelling Muslim who wants to reduce animal pain and really follow the spirit of halal could drop meat out or much further out of the diet.
Assuming of course that we are not torturing carrots when we bite into them raw. I think killing animals for food is fine, we recycle the elements of life. Meat is not especially recommended or even compulsory in Islam, but we have the choice to eat it. I feel anyone should be permitted to eat what they want short of cannibalism and even that can be excused in dire circumstances. But I dislike making a sport of it. If we have to murder to dissect or eat, we should make it as painless and devoid of cruelty as we can.
Well in theory it should be less painful than mere throat cutting. This I can agree on, however, is kosher meat never produced in factories (like in some of the more expensive kind of "organic" farms? If so I still prefer the animal to be unconscious before cutting its throat.
I do hope you are kidding. You think electrocution and throat cutting are less painful than bleeding out!!!! I bet you've never actually been to a factory farm.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Caution, not for the weak of stomach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHTUq90RDIQ I buy Jewish kosher meat now, but in India, we have butchers who kill animals in an abattoir. They are Muslims so they follow halal laws. No idea how the Jews do it here, but this is an opportunity to find out.
I dislike making a sport of it also. Hunting, of course, can be to put food on the table. Perhaps it was clear earlier in the discussion that you were comparing bullfighting to hunting for sport where the meat is not eaten. Still an animal hunted and killed for food has had it much better than many factory farmed animals, whether they are, in the end, killed halal or kosher or just killed. Bullfighting is a disgusting spectacle of killing as 'art form'. I would rather take my chances in a herd of grazers that were hunted by humans, than take my chances in the bullring. In each case I stand a chance of surviving and in being hunted I will not be contributing to some sick romantic idea or the pompous self image of a torturer. True a hunter may brag, but that is nothing compared to what happens to winning bullfighters.
Enmos: Not at all. But I don't like when the bull is injured or drugged before. Only cowards fight a bull who is not ready to rip you to shreads. But ah, the romance of man v. beast! Defying death before the crowd. That takes some balls. Of course, again, if only the beast is legitimately a threat. I don't like canned hunts of any variety.
Hand to paw/hoof combat is the only not canned fight I can think of. Metallurgy didn't become an unfair advantage only before gunpowder.
Simon Anders: Giving a man a weapon that forces him to stay within the kill zone is not too much of a swaying of the odds. That being said, bear and crocodile wrestlers are kick ass!
But, in fact, it is. Bullfighters kill their bulls for the most part. A bullfighter losing is the exception and the bullfighter getting killed is even rarer. Probably up there with motocycle riding or eating a lot of fast food.
Simon Anders: This is owing to the modern prevalence of drugging or injuring the bull beforehand. It's more dangerous against a fresh beast. Also: Motorcycle riding is actually pretty dangerous.
OK. If someone actually wants to have a fair fight with a bull it offends me less. But why not find another human - you know, the most dangerous game - who can truly give his assent?
Farm animals of course: chicken Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! cows Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! pigs Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Its also called Confined Animal Feeding Operations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming
Simon Anders: This is why I have a man crush on this man: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Fedor Emelianenko. The pound for pound greatest mixed martial arts fighter ever (reigning Pride Fighting Championships heavyweight champion and soon to be the crowned world champion) and world Sambo champion. I adore combat sports of all sorts. MMA, boxing, Greco-Roman, Judo, jiujitsu, Muay Thai, K1, karate, et cetera. But specifically MMA.
True, but the bull fight is a different type of combat sport. It is one where man fights against a tremendous, deadly beast. So long as the fight is not geared towards weakening the bull, I have no problem with it. I do, however, detest canned hunts of any type, including bull fights which are essentially rigged in favour of the matador. That is shameful nonsense.
