So, the water influenced the color, including the ones- OVER THE FREAKING CLOUDS?
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Star Wars vs Star Trek
- Thread starter Pollux V
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So, the water influenced the color, including the ones- OVER THE FREAKING CLOUDS?
I wonder why I'm arguing with you then? No matter.
Provide proof that the writer DOES control canon.
Because, you know, Star Wars was his creation...
Provide proof that Lucas controls Star Wars... because according to these guys, the FANS do... they keep trying to dictate what is cannon when Lucas has quite clearly done that.
Because Alderaan is a core world, and all core worlds had Planetary shields. Even some Mid and Outer Rim planets had shields, like Ukio.
Star Wars Novelization:
A voice announced over a hidden speaker that they had approached within antigrav range of Alderaan--approximately six planetary diameters.
Star Wars Radio Dramatization:
TARKIN: Make sure we are well out of range of the explosion.
Here are more EU references on planetary shields:
The Last Command:
pg.8: "..could be seen dropping through the brief gaps Ground Control was opening for them in Ukio's energy shield, a hazy blue shell surrounding the planet about 50 kilometers above the surface.
Planetary shields (at least in Ukio) are well within the atmosphere.
The Last Command:
pg.10: "Sequence four had two of the Ukians' thirty overlapping shield generators as its targets....launching such an attack would mean that Thrawn had given up on his stated goal of taking Ukio with its planetary defenses intact."
Wedge's Gamble:
pg. 34: With his mention of the defense shields, two spheres constructed of hexagons appeared to encase the world. One moved in the direction of its orbit, the other moved in the opposite direction.
SW planetary shields are composed of multiple overlapping shields. Also, these shields seem to be in the form of an umbrella or plate of some sort instead of hemispherical. Thrawn's cloaked ships could maneuver under these shield segments easily. Hoth's Echo Base had but a single generator, implying the same geometry; a high atmospheric "parasol" much like the shieldships used to travel to Nkllon in "Heir to the Empire". If this is the case, then the Imperials could just land "outside" of the shield area and walk in under the "umbrella".
The Last Command:
pg.73: "If the Empire has learned a method for focusing nonvisible energy against a shield, it could conceivably weaken a section long enough to fire a turbolaser blast through the opening."
It is unclear here whether Ackbar was referring to part of a shield or one of the multiple overlapping shields. If the former, then it seems planetary shields can "leak" energy at points if overwhelmed. Parts of the shield can be overwhelmed, and if the entire shield itself soaks up too much energy it will catastrophically collapse.
The problem is, none of this matters. Books are overruled by the movies. According to the MOVIE, there was no shield.
So, the water influenced the color, including the ones- OVER THE FREAKING CLOUDS?
What are clouds made of...
that and, do I look like a GeoPlanetary Expert? The proof is right on his website... read it!
Again, fuck Centerpoint already. It can't FIRE at us, it can't MOVE to us... it can't do ANYTHING.
And, again, we'll just dis-assemble those ships at the molecular level.
You want to play hardball, fine.
Enterprise-E goes back in time via a temporal vortex to a time before the Star Wars universe climbed out of the ooze and slags the planets in every solar system with a few high yield multi-million isotonne warheads.
Now Star Wars never happened.
Since you guys dont' have Temporal Shielding around the ENTIRE universe (nor do you have a ship able to travel back in time) you're Shit out of Luck.
You want superweapons? We can make superweapons out of normal ships...
So, the -E just finds one because you said so? It is a plan relying on everything happening perfectly- which, as an intelligent person knows- is impossible.
"In 212 BBY, Bosbit Matarcher engaged the hyperdrive on his Delmedian starhopper, intending to take a short trip from his homeworld of Delemede. Due to faulty relativistic shielding, what he experienced as a two-hour trip took 190 years from the perspective of the rest of the Galaxy. His experiences brought him brief notoriety when he arrived in 22 BBY, resulting in a HoloNet News interview. Matarcher took the experience in stride, as his run-down homeworld had become prosperous in the meantime. However, he decided to let someone else fly him home."
Yes, all Star Wars shields are Hull-Hugging. But when you get REALLY, REALLY big, like an Executor. Then it extends outwards, but not by much.
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/4/40/Geonosis_space.JPG
Unfortunately, the Movies seem to contradict this:
ISD's, ISD2's, and DS 1 and 2 have shields ships can fly under and attack the capital ship directly...
lots of random shit
And this matters why? I never see it in the movies, and the MOVIES are the highest cannon... thus if they don't exist in the movies...
What are clouds made of...
that and, do I look like a GeoPlanetary Expert? The proof is right on his website... read it!
Yes, I know the clouds are made out of water, but if the color of whatever it was over influencing it, why wasn't that part of the atmosphere white?
Unfortunately, the Movies seem to contradict this:
ISD's, ISD2's, and DS 1 and 2 have shields ships can fly under and attack the capital ship directly...
No proof for the ISDs, and as I said, the bigger the thing gets, the more the shields go out. The DS1 and two were so big, it was impossible to completely covered with shields, and there were seams, as stated in the novel and seen in the movie. Canon
So, the -E just finds one because you said so? It is a plan relying on everything happening perfectly- which, as an intelligent person knows- is impossible.
"In 212 BBY, Bosbit Matarcher engaged the hyperdrive on his Delmedian starhopper, intending to take a short trip from his homeworld of Delemede. Due to faulty relativistic shielding, what he experienced as a two-hour trip took 190 years from the perspective of the rest of the Galaxy. His experiences brought him brief notoriety when he arrived in 22 BBY, resulting in a HoloNet News interview. Matarcher took the experience in stride, as his run-down homeworld had become prosperous in the meantime. However, he decided to let someone else fly him home."
Sadly, this is not cannon in any way. In Star Wars, and indeed, even in novelizations, we see ships with NO shields, even ships on EMERGENCY POWER, jump to HyperSpace (for a few seconds) to escape danger.
This "reletivistic shielding" would, at most, protect against the theory of relativity and the idea that, the faster you go, the slower your time goes.
However, that is DEBUNKED as the FASTER you go, the SLOWER time goes - if HyperSpace is near light speed, you would not age at all, but everything around you would.
Explain THAT you smartass...
As far as the Ent-E going back in time - if a decrepid old Klingon Bird of Prey could make the time jump TWICE, what makes you think the PRIDE AND JOY of the Federation couldn't!
And this matters why? I never see it in the movies, and the MOVIES are the highest cannon... thus if they don't exist in the movies...
The EU is still canon, idiot. Just because it isn't in the movies doesn't mean it's canon, unlike in Star Trek.
Yes, I know the clouds are made out of water, but if the color of whatever it was over influencing it, why wasn't that part of the atmosphere white?
Because the clouds instantly vaporized... including the portions of the planet under it.
The EU is still canon, idiot. Just because it isn't in the movies doesn't mean it's canon, unlike in Star Trek.
Nope, sorry. The movies are highest cannon... you trying to dictate cannon again? I'm sorry, LUCAS said otherwise my friend...
we have provided quotes to that effect, which you have so conveniently ignored...
No proof for the ISDs, and as I said, the bigger the thing gets, the more the shields go out. The DS1 and two were so big, it was impossible to completely covered with shields, and there were seams, as stated in the novel and seen in the movie. Canon
So the ISD's shields were down due to a few small slow moving space rocks. Good.
Trek wins simply because those same rocks would have an impact FAR LESS than a ship impacting at 80% the speed of light.
Sadly, this is not cannon in any way. In Star Wars, and indeed, even in novelizations, we see ships with NO shields, even ships on EMERGENCY POWER, jump to HyperSpace (for a few seconds) to escape danger.
This "reletivistic shielding" would, at most, protect against the theory of relativity and the idea that, the faster you go, the slower your time goes.
However, that is DEBUNKED as the FASTER you go, the SLOWER time goes - if HyperSpace is near light speed, you would not age at all, but everything around you would.
Explain THAT you smartass...
As far as the Ent-E going back in time - if a decrepid old Klingon Bird of Prey could make the time jump TWICE, what makes you think the PRIDE AND JOY of the Federation couldn't!
Hyperspace is 11 Million times C. And it wouldn't matter if Bosbit didn't age, as the only thing else there was his ship, which can go on a pretty long time without maintenance.
ALL ships have relativistic shieldings in Star Wars, it is even in the guide to SW's tech.
I have to go as I do, unlike some people here I think, have a life outside of this debate.
C'ya, and I leave you with one thought:
How do you plan to defeat the Q...
So do I.
Q WOULDN'T HELP IN THE FIRST PLACE! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD!
So the ISD's shields were down due to a few small slow moving space rocks. Good.
Trek wins simply because those same rocks would have an impact FAR LESS than a ship impacting at 80% the speed of light.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. There were GIGANTIC NICKEL-IRON ASTEROIDS MOVING VERY FAST, AND THERE WERE TONS OF THEM! Watch the freaking movie, man...
Nope, sorry. The movies are highest cannon... you trying to dictate cannon again? I'm sorry, LUCAS said otherwise my friend...
we have provided quotes to that effect, which you have so conveniently ignored...
Why yes, the Movies are the highest canon, followed by television shows, followed by everything else except a few comics and books. Red the canon chart and Weep:
In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity-tracking database referred to as the Holocron continuity database. The Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years, but the capabilities of database software allow for each element of a story, rather than the stories themselves, to be classified on their own merits.
The Holocron's database includes an area for a single-letter (G, C, S, N or T) representing the level of canonicity of that element; these letters have since informally been applied to the levels of canon themselves: G-canon, C-canon, S-canon, N-canon and T-canon. As part of his work with the Holocron, Chee was responsible for the creation of this classification, and he spent the early stages developing and refining them into what they are today.
G, C, S and T together form the overall Star Wars continuity. Each ascending level typically overrides the lower ones; for example, Boba Fett's back story was radically altered with the release of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, forcing the retcon of older source material to fall in line with the new G-canon back story. However, this is not always absolute, and the resolution of all contradictions are handled on a case-by-case basis.
G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely.
T-canon[1], or Television Canon[2], refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee[3].
C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be; they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.
S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.
N-canon is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm.
Because the clouds instantly vaporized... including the portions of the planet under it.
"The defense system on Alderaan, despite the Senators protestations to the contrary, were as strong as any in the Empire."
―Grand Moff Tarkin
There, from the movie, canon. The defenses include Planetary shields, which were on Coruscant, as seen in Episode 2.
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