No, your point was that the nasty Jews were getting paid too much. I can see it above in the thread. Why the sudden tune change? Melody not what you thought it was? You're not honestly attributing anti-Semitism to unequal Holocaust payouts, are you? (Note: when I said "point to whatever specific example you like", I meant, in relation to what we were just discussing. My bad, obviously.)
Hmm someone is misusing antisemitism. I wonder why? The point is, since you refuse to get it, is that the current fascination with the holocaust is a contrived one. There is a distinction between the Nazi Holocaust, which is about those who suffered and the Holocaust Industry, which is about those who cashed in on that suffering. And the reason for the fascination with the holocaust above the other genocides is that no one is milking the others for cash.
Indeed, I do wonder why you're misusing it. "Holocaust Industry"! What an excellent phrase. Let me make this plain for you: The money is punishment, and the only kind they can exact. Moreover, you cannot simultaneously complain that the Jewish community first is wrongfully extracting too much cash from the Swiss for their part in the Holocaust, and then turn around and criticize them for not distributing it more equally. Either the payouts are right or they are wrong; the nature of their distribution isn't the issue WRT anti-Semitism. Which is it? The other difference being the defenselessness of the murdered.
Strange, they always call it recompense, except that those who should be compensated are eating chicken necks for inability to afford meat.
and for a moment there someone might have made the mistake and think you actually care for holocaust survivors. good thing you made your point clear-I hate israel because <something>.
Why have S.A.M.'s posts about Hazaras been deleted? They're very interesting. She claimed there are too few mosques in U.S. and suggested that Hazaras find refuge here. Her last post included this: "If the US had kept their fingers out of Afghanistan, it would not be in the state it is today. Kabul University was a hangout for hippies in the 1970s for Gods sake." What she failed to mention is that the Soviet-backed government's popularity kept decreasing among the native population and the opposition was backed not only by U.S. but also by Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others. She thinks the Soviet-backed government and Soviet military presence in Afghanistan would be beneficial for the country, forgetting the way Russians have been treating Chechens for the past few decades. Perhaps she thinks Chechens are some Siberian tribe, blond and blue-eyed. She also forgets the way Soviets treated other satellite states; perhaps because she doesn't know about the Ukrainian famine that took place in early 1930s. Also, she thinks that U.S. intervention in the Afghan war somehow excuses what was done to Hazaras. She forgets to mention that Hazaras were discriminated against for at least two centuries prior to the beginning of the Afghan war and are still discriminated against now when Taliban government is gone. She wants to overlook the fact that the discrimination of Hazaras in Afghanistan also carries a religious aspect, that Sunni and Shiite groups have always been in bitter conflict that also affected Iraq. She likes to say that Muslims are very tolerant people who wouldn't hurt anyone.
What do you think of the poor treatment of holocaust survivors? Why don't any of the people who cash in on the holocaust industry do anything for them?
sad as it is, and it is very sad, the political use you are trying to make of it is disgusting just as much-or even more.
So which is it causing the anti-semitism, since that's what we're debating: the payouts or their distribution?
The Armenians in America have finally gotten some attention, but I don't think they're going to be able to squeeze very much money out of Turkey. To be fair, they did build a huge infrastructure with it. My wife spent some time in Israel in 1969, and every public vehicle on the road was a Mercedes. I have some Jewish relatives on my father's side, and my mother's family was 100% Bohemian (or Czech as we call them today because it's easier to spell). I lost a whole lot of cousins on both sides. Where were you on 9/11/2001? Obviously not here or you wouldn't have to ask such a silly question. People here in the Washington region still remember it like it was yesterday, and they will NEVER forget who did it. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it just IS. They still have huge memorial services all over Washington every September 11th. Duh? Film! We had full-page photos of the concentration camps as they were liberated. Photos of the emaciated, tattooed survivors. Even a few photos of things no one should ever have to see. Sure photography existed as far back as the Civil War, but it wasn't as good and there wasn't as much of it. I think I've only seen one photo of the Christian genocide in eastern Turkey. I am a very verbally oriented person which is why I live so happily on the internet, but most humans are highly visually oriented. Images like that are seared into their brain and they never forget them. That was the key to the unexpected opposition to the Vietnam War. By then TV had become ubiquitous. Full-color video was coming into our homes at dinnertime.
Like <pick one>? Or do Americans have a short attention span of the genocides/terrorist acts they commit? Cos I've never seen memorial services for any of the above. Which of course, justifies holocaust survivors living below the poverty line. Or moving from Israel to Germany, where they have better expectations. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3388445,00.html Worth more dead than alive, clearly.
I like the whole: "Your sources are a bunch of anti-semites!" and "It doesn't matter that your sources are semites (jewish, more properly)!" argument that Geoff has going. Interesting. I'd forgotten how rabid he could get on this topic. It's been awhile either since he's had a thread such as this to rant with or perhaps just since I've peeked in. The simple statement that the Holocaust (note the capital H) is overplayed is simple truth. Can it be denied? Lists of other genocides that nobody cares about have already made their appearance so need to retrot them out, methinks. Also, the fact that the media is disproportionately staffed and/or run by those of jewish descent is also so basic that there really shouldn't be much of a huzzah about it. So, what's the hubbub, bub? Interesting what a simple 'the' will do, eh? Kinda funny.
But even many surviving Native AMericans will tell you they fought back. They just failed. Some tribes made the mistake of bringing a lot of hurt down on themselves by not recognizing the new 'pale faces' as a true threat and treated them like they did any other tribe. Many of the Idians got to die on their feet, though obviously not all. And we came after them a tribe or two at a time and were competing over resorces. The jews were systematically disarmed, rounded up and butchered like cattle. It was done on a massive scale. And the jews before this were normal productive members of society that was killing them. To compare it. What the US did to the idians is like a family fued with guns. What the Nazis did to the Jewish people was like stabbing your cousin in the back becuase he smiled weird.
That's not why anyone I know is fascinated with the Holocaust. It has several unique features, among mass killings, that make it not only Western on Western relevant but politically ominous. The people who did it were not alien, crazy, in a mob, overreacting to poorly understood threats by strangers, or in any other way dismissable. They were perfectly ordinary, churchgoing, educated, disciplined, civillized, informed, regular folks, to all outside appearances much like the neighbors of any citizen of a Western industrial country. And yes, as fraggle notes - the camera was coming into its own.
my problem with how the Holocaust is presented is that for the most part it is made to seem like the jews were the only target of it and downplays the other victims
