Star Wars vs Star Trek

Hyperspace can travel across the galaxy in about 15 hours, but Star Trek (haha) AT LEAST 7 years at go half way across the galaxy WITH wormholes, and Allien help.Star Trek can't Real-Time commuicat half way across galaxy! Star Wars' HoloNet can Real-Time communicate from the Core of the galaxy to the far side of Rashi-Maze( a satilite galaxy )! and it can do more than that! It can even communicate to the far side of Rashi Maze from Tatooine in the Outer Rim territories! and the tiny Federation cant even control a qudrant, but the Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire.ect control the whole GALAXY!

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I agree with cody the Trobolasers are not light! they are bolts of ENERGY! and it's firepower can vaporize a astroids that is way more than what federation can do and Star Wars have sismic charges that can blow up a dozen astroids, not small ones BIG ones!

 

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Trekies are forgeting the Force users ( mainly Jedi and Sith order ) they have lightsabers, and lightsabers and deflect almost everything! and they can Smash warships together, Make the whole fleet crash into a planet, sun supernova youy name it!( seen in the book of anger ) geez Jedi and Sith are in Star Wars too Trekkies!

 

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"This Battlestation is the altimate power in the universe i suggest we use it

 

Small problem Antaran. In SW, EU is correct unless Movie DIRECTLY contradicts it. Meaning those close up battles with cannons raging back and forth and the ships suffering little damage in comparison it meant that it takes GIGATONS of fire power to inflict that level of damage.

Look at Episode 3, the remains of a ship managed to make an unpwered rentry in a standard atmosphere and crash land on runway largely intact. The ships shields were gone and it had suffered massive structural damage. Still it came to a rest largely intact. Anything we produce today would have been vaporized on reentry, let alone the crash. The saucer section fo the E-D was in worse shape despite landing on a light gravity planet with trees as cushions and shields.

 

DO YOU even read my posts? Turbo Lasers hit asteroids and cause no shockwaves explosions debries OR any radiation. had those bean laser hits we would have witnissed some thermal effects. had TL been plasma we would have defintily witnised some plasma fireballs. even at compleate vaporiazation that vapor would have been super heated and definitly visible. the asteroid simlply disapears out of sight after glowing up. and asteroids are not shielded the last time i looked

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my theory is that TL are some exotic particles that cause damage on a level we can not describe with current tech, probably similar to disruptors or phasers. perhaps they work on the weak nuclear forces, and somehow disolve matter into neutrinos or some other allmost noninteractive with matter form of radiation. or maybe they simply shift matter out of phase. eather way there is no evidence of termal effects on the asteroids. even a small kiloton yeald warhead would have had visible effects on the nearby matter.

 

to TW Scott
the Galaxy saucer section was practicaly disabled when it crushlanded. it cought no fires on it's way down, and it remained allmost undamaged on it's way down (well at least the exterior). had they an operationg power generator maube they could have maintained more eficient inetia control and avoided internal damage. Grievous's ship half burned on its way down. had it bean populated the way the E-D's saucer was they would have lost at least half their crew.

 

:bugeye:
i guess your PHD just took a day off :crazy:
i advise asking for a refund

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energy=defined as the ability to do work
so the question is what is a laser. it is basicly a coherent electro magnetic wave (but unlike a maser it is in the light spectrum-UV,IR or visible). as long as the laser is capable of doing a work it has energy (whisch is always).

but yes, i agree, and if you even bothered to read the previous post you'd see that i don't think TLs are lasers. they just don't act that way. they are obviously quite slower and their hits cause no themal efects on the environement. now that comes to it, light sabres probably use a similar principle, cause otherwise Qui-Gon would have burnt his hands badly when we sliced thrpugh the blast door. my guess is that some kind of reflection field (shaped like a cylinder) is used to contain the beam. when the field is interupted by contact with normal matter the "cutting" effect ocurs. fields deflect eachother so beams don't pass through. blasters are allso reflected.

 

No, the Enterprise Suacer was sent careening off course by the warpcore breach. She still had her shields or she would have been destroyed by the breach. She also must have had her shields as we have seen in other instances that the hull would have melted away. Remeber that few Federation vessels are made for landing on planets and all of them are designed to come in at very low speeds, not free fall. The suacer section landed on a soft surfcae covered with trees, and few extra bumps. When everything was said and done it was basically shattered with no structural integrity left. Evidence by the fact that it simply could not be towed off surface by the rescue vessels.

The Invisible Hand had already been torn nearly in half by heavy turbolaser bombardment. The vessel was structurally weakened and without any shields or anything other than the barest of docking thrusters. The outer layers of paint had cuaght fire, but that was it. From the moment the engines section broke free to the point the the remaining section bascially fell into the starport the Invisible hand suffered surprisingly little damage. The exposed transparisteel bridge was completely unharmed by reentry. In fact, except for being covered in flame retardent foam and missing the engines the ship was structurally sound enough to land with that part of the frame intact. You will also note that engines fell off due to extreme metal fatigue thanks to hours of combat and the sudden reversal of engines .

Of the two vessels the Invisible hand fared much better on their particular crash landings.

As for Turbolasers it is been theorized several times from a available footage and EU material that a Turbolaser is more akin to a Plasma cannon. With the description of the operation of Blasters and the curious oddities of Turbolaser firing, the Plasma cannon description fits the facts. And since their operation is never mentioned in films it is not that far out there to imagine that the Plasma Cannons came to be known as Turbolasers through some strange set of circumstances.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong. TurboLasers are a particle beam that goes through gases to strengthen it.

 

Unfortunately for you, the suncrusher is in EU, not in Lucas' visioned universe.

The two DS's could be destroyed easily by either a simple photon torpedo, of a squadron of attack fighters if necessary. (Was the second DS bigger than the first? If so, WHY?!? Why not build it smaller? Would have been more efficient and still could have got the job done.)

Are you familiar with trilithium?

 

His opinion on EU's cannonicity has absolutely no bearing on the laws of physics. If your true intent is applying physicals and scientific priniciples to the ST vs SW debate, you can't arbitrarily ignore principles that hurt your argument.

It's an all or nothing endeavor. And Darkstar (Is that his name?) made a valid point about supersonic and subsonic shockwaves.

As I've already stated, even if I grant you those inflated turbolaser values, they aren't particularly impressive against when we examine Trek history in its entirety; weaponry from the TOS era could blast through kilometers of solid rock.

 

Exactly.

You beat me to it.

Starfleet only needs a single trilithium torpedo, correct?

 

For the last time: The Death Star has shields, stronger shields than any Trek ship. Besides, The HTL turrets would take out Starfleet ships light years away.

The DSII was bigger because it was going to have more options than the first; like cloaking.

 

Yet the TNG-era cannot? Something wrong there. Kilometers is unimpressive on the Star Wars side, as 3,000-year-old guns blew up a massive space station with planet-generated shields.

 

Trees don't act as cushions...especially when an object the size of the Enterprise's saucer section is falling at a high rate of speed. The crash site of the E-D consisted of rocky and uneven terrain, which is the one of the worst terrains for crash landing.

If any ship benefitted from a "cushioned landing," it was the Invisible, which had the luxury of crashing on an actual runway...as opposed to the side of a mountain.

The E-D's shields were NOT up. This is made very obvious when the blast from the exploding star drive section reaches the saucer section; there's no visible distortion indicating the presence of a shield. Up to that point, there had been a visible flash of light several meters from the hull whenever the Klingon BOP had fired on the Enterprise.

And where, pray tell, is there any evidence that Coruscant's gravity is any heavier than Veridian III's?

During the crash, the saucer section was without primary stabilizers; helm control was off line;and the ship had received heavy damage from its prior battle. Furthermore, unlike the Invisible, the Enterprise was not on fire, and was not receiving assistance from other ships.

At the address below, you can rewatch the crash scene from Generations, and corroborate everything I've just explained.

w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=sLSJzOzNVfc&feature=related

 

Who said they can't?

With one photon torpedo, Voyager destroyed a sizeable asteroid with a strong titanium component.

You can't take a single line of dialogue or FX sequence out of context. You must consider these issues against the entire backdrop of the Trek universe.

How does this involve our asteroid discussion?

As I recall, you stated that our analysis should only consider known stellar objects, such as asteroids, whose composition can be reasonably extrapolated, right?

 

Actually trees do act as a cushion. Especially nice soft woods like the pine trees there. I admit the terrain was moutainous, but is was well eroded mountains witha THICK layer of top soil that you could actually see piling up around the ship as it plowed. Makes for a very soft landing as apposed the durasteel runway sitting atop solid granite. To give a picutre Enterpise D hit a a well used wrestling mat and Invisible Hand hit concrete.

As evidenced by Nemesis when ever there is a large scale strike to a wide section of the shield there is no visible distortion. Witness the ram that hit the Scimitar when her shields were still 70%. And there is the bright flash liogh as the shockwave hits the saucer section. No mention of shields going offline and Commander Data is the type to definately report that.

Actuially Coruscants gravity is just over Earth norms. Veridian III was smaller than Earth size and several feats performed by Picard and Kirk show a slightly weaker gravity. All in All works out to probably 80%-90% normal Earth

If the helm was offline then why was the crew staying on the Bridge? Simple helm controls had been out for a few moments. Data had rerouted for thrusters and secondary stabilizers were online. The Damage to the Saucer section was negligable as most of the attacks were on the enegineering/ battle section. There were bown panels on the bridge, but the Saucer section looked almost pristine as it came in reentry.


As for the Invisible Hand the only help she had was the fire foam. No ships were towing her, just clearing the lane. Also note that the section of the Invisible hand that handed was LARGER than the saucer section of the Enterprise D and suffered much less damage from the landing. In fact the only reason for fire was the Paint, which Federation ships do not have. In fact most of the damage to the surviving section had been from the battle up above the the engines breaking away.

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Watched it for my refresher. The terrain they landed in was not exactly rocky mountains. More like Alluvial remnants. Piles of thick and heavy top soil, some rocks and clay. Not the best of places to land, but certainly better than a Tarmac made Durasteel.

 

Actually the asteroid in question was mostly Ovaline an fragile mineral. There were some titanium components and some iron, but the vast majority was ovaline. That is if you are speaking of Rise. It should also be of note that undoubtedly that was a speciual case torpedo as Riker said it would take every last torpedo to break open the hollow asteroid that the Enterpirise D was trapped inside.

Yes and that analysis gives us a low end estimate for the light defense versions of the Turbolaser.

As SW canon includes EU and the EU Turbolaser poweris not contradicted by anything in the movies, it stands. 12.5 gigatons for the antiquated Acclamator class Heavy Turbolaser.

 

Actually, it took a long time to cut through Kilometers of a relatively low melting point rock in TOS. It also took sometime for TNG to do a similiar feat.

Both of these feats are in the multi megaton per second range, but compared to the 40 to 200 megatons needed to vaporize asteroids in ESB in 1/15 of a second it just falls short.

Trek is powerful don't get me wrong, but in a fist fight with Star Wars it loses. It's nothing personal as they are the two kings of Sci-fi. Without Star Trek TOS there would be no Star Wars. Without Star Wars there would be no Star Trek Movies or The Next Generation. Without both of them there would be no Babylon 5 and without Babylon 5 there would be no Farscape.