To save the general hassle and trouble, i decided to post this here, not that i have any problem with this. It is generally a science debate, but issues the nature of God. My good hero, Fred Alan Wolf believes that one day math will solve everything. Though, if we hold onto this belief, one might even realize that hope, since hope and belief go hand-in-hand, is quintessentially every scientist’s greatest and weakest strength. Math is a man-made function. Without man, mathematics could not describe the world, naturally... and if mathematics is on the ''supposed'' brink of a unified field theory, then before such an equation transpires, one might need to realize that the observer and perhaps God are essential ingredients... Remember, i believe that God is a physical field of electromagnetism... another reason why i believe God is electromagnetic, is because of similar theories suggesting God might be Gravity itself. Though, this is not entirely the reason... you see, the electromagnetic force is a massive 10^-44 more powerful than gravity; this is why i believe God is Electromagnetic - since logic would suggest He would be the most powerful force out of the two - the weak and strong forces where forces i never found comfortable to come to use, since they deal with the actual emission and decay of every particle in the universe... it could simply register an answer too quickly in describing a cosmic intelligence. Thus, i wished to use the electrical and magnetical phenomena, and it's mediator, the photon of light energy. All elements, most essential to life, are the scientific equivalence to a theologians dream. The electrical function throughout all of matter, is seen to us as curving to and fro into new centres of new atoms, every spit second. They may not even go in-between. Instead, the electron can be seen as existing as a cloud in one atom, and then, just as quickly, inhabit a new centre of a new atom. If God is a physical force, namely electrical and magnetical, then God is also in the perfect conditions to control electrical currents and channels inside one's mind. For this reason, He may even be able to connect to our thoughts, wishes and prayers. During the writing of this, I came across the idea's of a physician called H. P. Blavatsky* in her 1890 article, 'Kosmic Mind.' She believed that the cosmos is intelligent. She holds to this fact, by introducing us into realizing that we are told, even to this day according to some particle physicists, that an atom is totally equivalent to an entire universe. And in each of these universes, a field of consciousness exists. Her idea's so strongly connected with my own - i believed. Though she invites the reader into realizing that 'universal intelligence,' was one of the oldest teachings esoteric philosophy, she continues to expand that, in each atom, there was an intelligence: and that by using this theory, she believed that every cell contained within the whole composition of a human body has a little brain of its own - including memory. Of course, we know for sure today that cells are simpler than this. A single cell, for instance, will have a D.N.A. of intelligence, but it is hardly comparable with everyday human intelligence that we deal with. Though, saying that, the individual cells i am made of has a very small amount of energy, it seems to make up the whole 'me'. Thus, one can attain that cells have [a low type of] intelligence, but only due to their environments. A single cell is lame, and inadequate. It requires the stable help of surrounding sister and brother-cells to function and cohere. How they do so, is up for debate. * There are of course, other biologists who believe that cells alone make up an entire beings intelligence... such as Candace Pert, a neurobiologist who believes that our minds are in every cell of our bodies. For instance, we have the enigmatic 'theory of intelligent design,' within not only life, but also cosmology: though, these that deal with a specially-placed planet, not too far away, and neither too close to the Sun, should be classed under as a type of Anthropic Cosmological Principle. The idea that life, especially when concerning human life, seems incredibly intricate and complex - far too complex to be that simply of nature herself. The thing that always gets me, isn't the biological construction of a man, but rather his or her intelligence. I also often wonder how much energy the human being requires at any given time, and wonder if consciousness arises out of those depths. Perhaps the human consciousness requires absolutely no energy... Somehow, out of the billions of creatures and animals, we have strived to the top of the food chain, with the ability, not only to describe and name reality as it unfolds around us, but also able to appreciate it, in a ways that only gods could do. It is for this very reason, i tend to believe in a cosmological intelligence... Though, to have the best chance of living, the universe would need to have an all-permeating field of conscious energy... this idea might seem strange at first, but i believe that there is indeed a [physical] field of force, responsible for all consciousness. Electrons would be perfect candidates to be able to transfer this conscious energy. In his fantastic book, 'Spiritual Universe,' Fred Alan Wolf makes a most interesting analogy. He states the similarities between the force acting on our souls through matter, just like the force between two magnets. Thinking like this allows us to envision consciousness and the soul in some weird and wonderful ways. Even though Dr. Wolf was using this as an analogy, I couldn’t help taking it a little more seriously… Scientists are ever enforcing the idea that mind arises from matter… If consciousness can arise out of the materialistic, the material forces may well have some interesting effects on a conscious entity. We have already seen that consciousness might be a by-product of gravity on a very small level, but what about the electromagnetic forces? If so, i find myself asking some rather strange questions... concerning thought and emotions. ''Is this how we connect to God... through electromagnetic waves?'' ''Is the sea of consciousness split through electromagnetic influences?'' ''Is God electromagnetic?'' A spiritual physicist and perhaps even a philosophical scientist would view consciousness like a field of force that somehow emits from matter - like, as Dr. Fred Wolf said once, ''like a photon emits an electromagnetic field.'' Now, using this cleaver analogy, we can assume that consciousness is a field that seeps out of matter. If consciousness is caused by the force of gravity, we must assume with good reason that the electromagnetic force has its own influences on the state of a conscious entity. I believe that consciousness prevails through the breaking off from the unified pool of all-consciousness. Is this able to happen through the electromagnetic force? A Direction In Mind... If all the forces have effects on the mind, then what are they doing? Experimenting with the electromagnetic forces first, would be, i assume, the best place to start - which might confuse my readers, since i have stressed the role of gravity and consciousness, though remember, the physical particle that makes up gravity, the graviton, has never been detected. If modern theory is correct, even if it isn't shared among a great deal of scientists, consciousness is really a great unit of one thing - that there is no independent mind, and that self-awareness is a delusion. What if individuality is itself caused by the very force of electromagnetism? If so, then electromagnetic waves, those tiny ''jitterbugging'' electrons, might have split the great sea of consciousness and allowed a being to have sentient qualities. God is electromagnetic in physical nature. If He is, then He is for sure connected to [us] in a physical sense. He is connected to ourselves through magnetic attractions. Like Fred's analogy of a magnetic attraction between particles and the soul... Fred also brings rise to idea of interactions between virtual and real particles. One idea, is that the soul is made up of billions upon billions of negatively charged particles, buffeting positive matter about in spacetime. Some scientists believe that the zero-point energy field might even give rise to consciousness, just as does with matter, and as i have speculated, the negative energy might determine feelings and thoughts. Since my view of God hasn't changed much over the years, God is aware of every human thought, even if He cannot track all of the particles that make up ones mind. If God is aware of everything we think about, we need to ask how this is achieved, and i believe God is physically attracted to us by electromagnetic forces. Perhaps God exists within the zero-point energy field, and is meaningfully connected to us, through particle interactions and particle forces? Is this how God comes to know everything we ever do and ever say, because it is all recorded to God like some distant code being tapped across the real and the potential realms? In just this sense, God retains His spirituality by existing in a realm different to our own, but also gains within my mind, a special physical property...
Therefore it's not a science debate at all. Please someone move this to Pseudoscience or Parapsychology, maybe even Religion.
Reiku, "...even to this day according to some particle physicists, that an atom is totally equivalent to an entire universe. And in each of these universes, a field of consciousness exists" Can you give me a good link to some of these particle physicists? As I see it, every particle at its finest level does indeed contain the entire universe within it, wrapped by dimensions that are difficult to understand. This is consistent with much esoteric teachings...in Buddhism it is said that the smallest and the largest are the same. In the bible: as above so below. In Macrobiotics: the extreme of yin is yang and the extreme of yang is yin...the Macro-universe is also the micro-universe. There are many more esoteric statements such as these! If this is true, then we could actually say that a photon (or a particle) has consciousness, but that it is unconscious about its own consciousness. Like a baby that doesn't know it will grow up. Or a virgin unaware of sex. On one end of the Time Spectrum (the entire wave of all time) we have total mindless unconsciousness (God Potential) and the other is perfect intelligence (God Manifest). "...consciousness is really a great unit of one thing - that there is no independent mind, and that self-awareness is a delusion. What if individuality is itself caused by the very force of electromagnetism? If so, then electromagnetic waves, those tiny ''jitterbugging'' electrons, might have split the great sea of consciousness and allowed a being to have sentient qualities." We are all parts of the whole. From a philosophic stand point this is totally correct! My father did a massive study about how electrons are passing though alternative universes, I have to contact him and see if he can give me the pitch.
Your father did this? Interesting. Right now, the only considered particles capable of moving between universes is the graviton. "...even to this day according to some particle physicists, that an atom is totally equivalent to an entire universe. And in each of these universes, a field of consciousness exists" Can you give me a good link to some of these particle physicists? One of them, and he cannot possibly be singled out as the only physicist who has believed and still believes that the entire universe is a particle of some sort, is Frank J. Tipler... A bit of a nutcase in many area's of his study, but a very very clever man beleived the universe might one giant super-boson. I'll try and find a link. I only follow his work sometimes. ''If this is true, then we could actually say that a photon (or a particle) has consciousness, but that it is unconscious about its own consciousness. '' Is totally what i am getting at: A Real Consciousness... the kind we experience in everyday life, and a Potential Consciousness... that even a rock has. Anyways... Fred Hoyle who passed away in 2001, near enough when i came up with my theory, believed that the mind was indeed the matter it inhabited. I have to admit, there is actually a lot of strong evidence now to suggest perhaps the mind ISN'T totally bound by its corporeal inhabitors. Instead, the mind is a field around matter/ but exists like some holographic network, and our memory might not be [completely] tied by the matter inside our heads.
I do believe that Dr. Wolf in his book ''Mind into Matter,'' calls it ''Intuit.'' We seem to expect the future before it even happens, and even at that, no violation occurs.
Not having read that book I would assume we mean similar things. if one stands for example 4 floor up and over looks a city quad or square and observs people moving around and deliberately excludes actions of volition one can see an incredible and intelligent instinctive behaviour occuring as sso many people move across and around the square with out bumping into each other or attacking each other or making love with each other....instinctively or intuitively and intelligently moving and communicating by what ever instinctive methods are available... Now expand the notion to include the entire universe an done could suggest that as a whole the nature of cause and effect could be deemed to be instinctive behaviour and when self animated life is thrown into the picture we have an incredible intelligencia at work and all entirely automatic. What would be the purpose of this intelligencia do you think? My first speculation would be that it is devoted to evolution, progress of time and not only that but sustainability as well. So those who look around and state that the universe must have been created by intelligence are not exactly wrong hey? very intelligent yes? however exclusively focussed in one or two ambitions only. So could this not be a definition of God at an autonomic level at least? BTW I fail to see how you can limit God to being electro magnetic force....but hey your opinion ok...
"Your father did this? Interesting. Right now, the only considered particles capable of moving between universes is the graviton." I'm gonna e-mail him this evening and tell him he is going to be a grampa! At the same time I'll see if I can get him to give me his work. Since I am his son, I think that he will be pleased that I am asking for it. He solved a problem in trigonometry that had never been solved (many thought it couldn't be solved)...gave irrefutable mathmetical proof and had the option of going to any school in the world of his choosing. He chose not to for personal reasons. "One of them, and he cannot possibly be singled out as the only physicist who has believed and still believes that the entire universe is a particle of some sort, is Frank J. Tipler... A bit of a nutcase in many area's of his study, but a very very clever man beleived the universe might one giant super-boson. I'll try and find a link. I only follow his work sometimes." I read his book 'The Immortality of Physics'. It was a lot of fun seeing how he puts the peices together, even if it is probobly flawed. Trail and error...the grinding stone...if we do not understand our mistakes how can we make any progress? That goes for everyone out there!!! '"'If this is true, then we could actually say that a photon (or a particle) has consciousness, but that it is unconscious about its own consciousness. '' Is totally what i am getting at: A Real Consciousness... the kind we experience in everyday life, and a Potential Consciousness... that even a rock has. " I think it will be helpful to break down consciousness into its obserable parts. I will provide my own observation at the end of this responce. Maybe later I'll start a thread to inquire and share this...but I have enough to keep up with at the time being. Consciousness is one of the greatest mysterys of all. So it deserves closer examination. These two I am not familar with... Fred Hoyle Dr. Wolf "So could this not be a definition of God at an autonomic level at least?" Qantum Quack...in reference to your complete statement and inquiry (not just what I quote here) I think that the observation of consciousness might add perspective. So here I go...
Hqq Hi there. You know what jumped out at me at reading your analogy... the rules of complimentarity. Is this what you mean't?
I'm glad you share my like for the mystery of consciousness. I shall dwindle on your thoughts more. Dr Hoyle died in 2001. He was an astrophysicist. And Dr. Wolf is still alive today. I have odd chats with him here and there.
A breif break down of Consciousness... Concsciousness cannot exist without perception or awareness. We are aware of what we see...so sight is an essential part of concsiousness. It could be called visual consciousness. The fives external senses for observing the external world (1st grader stuff): Eyes...Sight Nose...Smell Ears...Hearing Tongue...Tasting Nerves...Feeling Elementary Schools and the feild of Pyschology both teach that there is a sixth sense...Intuition. It has no external organ and I uncertain if an internal organ can be attributed soley to it (doubtful..but maybe it is the right side of the brain). The sixth sense is a merger of conscious and subconscious communication and awareness. Buddhism teaches that concsiousness can be broken down into 9 levels...or parts (my wording might be a little off). The 6th sense is consistent with the teaching of Psychology. The 7th, 8th, and 9th are subject to psychological evualation...though the idea that they are senses or regions of consciousness originates in buddhist thought. The 7th is considered to be where logical, rational thought takes place. It is also the sense we use to visualize pictures in our minds with...The brain is the organ of this sense...and consequently it has much to do with the dreaming process. Like the sixth, the 7th draws on/from conscious and subconcsious. The 8th is considered to be 'karmic sense', the ability to distinguish good from evil, right from wrong, etc. I see it as more of a polarity sense that allows us to measure the merits of relative phenomena. Its organs...possibly the pituatary and pineal glands. This is the sense that gives you a feeling you are doing something wrong...or right. This sense is located more so in the depth of the subconscious. The 9th sense is considerd to be universal sense or consciousness. It has no organ...it is central to every cell of life. It is within the DNA, and the nucleus. It gives a sense of unity. This sense accesses great truths...that are universal. In Psychology this is considered the super-conscoiusness. Buddhism goes no further. I suspect that if there are five external senses then there are also five internal ones. Buddhism never mentions that last...because it is void. The void sense is not even there in the regular sense of the word. It is the most difficult to grasp and comprehend. It is the part of awareness that is unaware. It is unable to admire its own perfection. The void sense or consciousness is both infinite and zilch...zero...void. Of concsiousness I'd say it is the unconscoius part. If we are born with the 5 outer senses not functioning we stand no chance to develope the 5 inner senses. If we where somehow without the 5 inner senses the outer senses would also cease to serve any purpose. With only two (or 3?) of the 5 senses Helen Kelen was able to develope her inner senses to a great extent. This is just off the top of my head. I haven't started a thread over this yet in part because I have to find the polished description. This might be useful. If I do start a thread I don't think I'll mix the information below into it...as it would probalby confuse the thread. So we go back to the particles... Do they see? Doubtful. Do they hear? Doubtful...But not as doubtful as them seeing. Do they taste? Doubtful. Do they smell? Doubtful. Do they feel? A very good chance!!!!! Are they intuitive? A good maybe!!! Can they think? Doubtful. Distuiguish right from wrong? Uncertain, could be an automatic reflex. Do they possess awareness that is universal? Unlikely. Do they possess void concsiousness? How could they not?
Yeh sure... I have said in the past: ''In the beginning, entropy was very low - one perhaps could call this the ground state of order. It was because entropy was so low, a distinction between the past and the future could arise. And when time continued, entropy would increase; for this reason, entropy can never decrease... and even though disorder is ever increasing, it will do so with as much a little of disorder as possible. This is stated clearly in 'the principle of least action.' This principle highlights that the universe will be as efficient with its energy as possible. However, the only real time we experience is the present time. This must mean that both the past and the future are a collection of statistical probable outcomes: making both the past and the future totally virtual. Now, even though these are all laws, totally within the boundaries of physics, they can be violated. They can be violated if the mind collects information about the future and is simultaneously aware of it. Obviously, this would be a premonition of the future. This is us remembering a time which has not yet come to pass - which seems illogical when anyone comes to reconcile this phenomena, because, how can we remember something we have never experienced? I believe we can do so, because all-information exists potentially within our beings. And because we have all-information existing within us in a dormant state, and also because our minds can defy certain rules and principles, such as indeterminism, we might be able to defy temporal processes of knowledge, not working in a continuous frame. Instead, from time-to-time, the mind can jump into the future and anticipate an outcome by making it 'real', and i think this collapse ensures that this is the specific way into the most probable future. Even though we sense the psychological arrow of time as going in one direction (I call this 'linear knowledge'), it would still be best to imagine it as being non-linear. Whether or not it may seem to have a directionality about it, it is existing in a world in which it encapsulates it's field on four dimensional freedom. Thus, real time is like a squiggly surface, usually portrayed as being the surface of an expanding balloon; thus the time we sense is an illusion, but is in opposition, an extremely valuable way to distinguish the evolution of time, including it's boundaries of past, present and future. '' In other words, if the mind anticipates the future, then is there a limit to what we can anticipate in the long run? Can we potentially see 3 minutes into the future before it happens? There has been tantilizing work done on this effect... and some Dr.'s of Neurokinetics have pronounced actual evidence of this, such as Dr. Radin. If the mind can violate the linear unravelling of how things work, then the sixth sense is what we call time itself. In fact, i strongly beleive that the mind does this all the time... It's just a matter of the conscious mind being aware of it. The less conscious a mind is, the more potnetial there is to break such a barrier, since time is easily broaken in it's linear nature to us on very small levels. On the subatomic level, there is no such thing as pure cause and effect.
