Dutch fear violence over provocative Islam film

Discussion in 'World Events' started by w1z4rd, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. DEA 68 Registered Member

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    what is this, the christian coalition goes global?
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You're the one who said:

    So I want to know what is YOUR assumption about the perspectives of first generation immigrants from the Middle East who come to the Netherlands and watch a movie that tells them to tear up the Quran versus the perspectives of a Dutch born native.

    Are they the same or are they different?
     
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  5. Arsalan Registered Senior Member

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    You are no authority on the Quran and therefore your opinions are just that, your opinions. Dont try to pass them off as fact.

    Where exactly? And how? I have taken an example of Christians resoting to violence and compared that to an example of Muslims esorting to violence. Where have I put more emphasis on one and not the other? :shrug:

    Oh my oh my

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    Your argument was that because not that many Christians do it therefore its not as big a problem as Muslims. I find this a fallacy because you are applying a reverse of the appeal to popularity argument there. Just because, according to you, more Muslims than Christians are violent, the problem is Islam.

    And then you talk about diseases A and B and then say that disease A casues more victims, which you prolly implied to be Islam and disease B Christianity. Then you say that disease B needs to be examined more thoroughly. Now do you see that that example is completely irrelevant?


    And what is the islamic form? Protection of the Prophets against defamation? Preventing people from hurting a lot of peoples feelings by cartoons or whatever? People like you will never be happy

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    The fact of the matter is that in Islamic Blasphemy laws you are not allowed attack the Prophets and other peoples religions out of respect for them.

    And you can find cases yourself. I have more important work to do.
     
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  7. DEA 68 Registered Member

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    are we really concerned about this?

    :m: what is this stuff you're going on about? Don't you know there are 900 million muslims in ths world? and you're acting as if they are some minority group to be teased about their lack of Jesus? leave Main street once in your life people!

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  8. Arsalan Registered Senior Member

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    As I said before, this film will be a pretty meaningless campaign by a fascist politician hoping to appeal to a certain demographic to get some votes. I sincerely hope people wont be as stupid or narrowminded to believe whatever he says
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    So whats the worry about.. ?
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    You are apparently also not an authority on the Quran. I will continue to have all my opinions without reference to your false authority.

    In the first example, you cite "Christian fathers" (whatever that's supposed to mean...Protocols of Zion reference?) attacking abortion clinics and in the second, muslims driven to defend their religion with violence. I'm sad that you cannot differentiate the two rationales you provoke.

    It may be, if the per capita rate is higher. Or islamic practice, rather. Does it not deserve consideration merely because it offends your sensibilities?

    Of course not, because it isn't. If it is, please illustrate how.

    Faint Quranic reference there. "They will not be happy until you believe as they do". I submit that hurt feelings and hurt Prophets matter less than death and broken bones, but believe as ye will.

    This explains the villification of "shirk", I'm sure, or the arrest of people practicing minority religions from time to time.

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    Regrets, my time is also more important than yours. But you have sufficiently illustrated my point, for which I thank you again.

    Best,

    Geoff
     
  11. Arsalan Registered Senior Member

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    Nothing. Im not worried

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    Tho some ppl may get angry. But oh well
     
  12. Arsalan Registered Senior Member

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    On the contrary, All my posts regarding verses of the Quran come from various authorities on the Quran, some of whom I have met personally.

    I dont believe in the porotolcs of zion. Maybe you do? That never crossed my mind. I said Christian fathers because it is usually them who get mad about their daughters getting pregnant or getting an abortion. Their view is that a good Christian woman doesnt do that. So they are driven to ther actions because of their rationale. And I gave an example of Muslims resorting to violence. I dont see anything you allegedly see :shrug:

    Appeal to popularity or reverse engineered appeal to popularity --> logical fallacy. And I have given it enough consideration. A a matter of fact I have had many debates about this with idiots who call themselves Muslims yet are intent on breaking every single Islamic law. The similarities between them being unable to provide valid support for their views, which are similar to yours, and you is staggering.

    Haha! So you cant even provide an example of what you call the Islamic form of protection under the blasphemy laws but refer to a verse you know nothing about and allege that it supports killing or beating everyone else.


    Nope. Out of respect for other peoples religion Muslims are ordered to let others go about their religious business. Or maybe you missed the Hadith about the mosque in Medina being used by the Christians as well to pray :shrug:

    Ah yes somehow by you avoiding the issues I raised I have illustrated some vague point that you only know :bugeye:
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Re freedom of expression:

    It is across the board, in general, and denied to select groups only, for serious and much-debated specific reasons.

    Life is difficult for first generation immigrants. But freedom of expression is not a kind of idiosyncrasy or local custom that a wise government might cut some slack in for the newcomers - the way Nordic countries set up modesty beaches for American tourists, say.

    And the spread of the violence, often deliberately by clerics, to distant peoples whose only connection is a common religion, points to a larger problem than mere culture shock or local feelings of humiliation.
     
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Most Xians I know of support a woman to make a choice to have an abortion or not to have an abortion. Actually, many (if not most) women who have abortions are probably of the Xian faith as well.

    Do Muslims support a person's decision to desecrate the Qur'an?


    A better comparison would be: How do Xian's act when the Bible is desecrated? Do they run amok and kill themselves and others or do they act like civilized humans and try to explain that such acts humiliate and sadden them - you know, try to use these things called "words" instead of those other things called "clubs".

    That's the real difference,
    Michael


    PS: Those Xians that do murder doctors are shunned by the wider community. Other Christians come out, stand up, and say HEY this psychopath was wrong and will probably, dare I say, burn in Hell.

    On the other hand, some Muslims smash through 2500 years of history and we're more apt to get a response excusing it. ex: Well the Europeans were giving money for their restoration that could have been used food-stuffs to it's all good. PATHETIC. Here's another good one: The Buddhists passive response has nothing to do with their life-philosophy, that is: Buddhism, probably more to do with most didn't know anything about it. [Yeah, ergo if they did know they'd have run amok and kill themselves??? - pleeeease!]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure why the posts were deleted - as I didn't get a chance to read them. BUT, it is common knowledge that you shouldn't copy and paste.

    Also, I've OFTEN WISHED we could write up a specific set of REAL RULES and have a REAL DEBATE as part of a religious subforum. Where questions are posed and direct answers given. Of course such a debate takes a little more time and even more passion regarding the question - something I personally find in very short supply these days.

    Michael
     
  16. Arsalan Registered Senior Member

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    First of all, are there not Muslims who use words instead of clubs as well to explain what Islam is and condemn killings resulting from this? Ofcourse you will say no as you have not bothered to look up any of the thousands of fatwas declared against terrorists and killers by Muslim clerics and we have not seen those on tv as extensively as the fatwa declared on that hypocrite of a Rushdie.

    Second of all, it is because decades of colonization and lying to them that the people of the Middle-east have become so hostile towards the West. They were promied selfdetermination after the First World War but when it was over the region was carved up in mandates. When they resisted, all the protests were put down mercilessly. On top of that the US and the UN disregarded a special report about implementing a Zionist approach in Palestine and forced Israel on them. I know its easy for you to say lets use words, but they have used words ages ago and all it got them was colonization and lies. You really think they are happy and or going to trust you again?

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  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    So, Islam doesn't produce hate, although killing Rushdie, an author, is acceptable, and anyway, we have reasons to hate. I guess all those suras about killing infidels was just a misunderstanding.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2008
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Rushdie is dead? Strange, I had not heard. Hmm lets see who kills more 'infidels'.

    Wanna keep score?
     
  19. Arsalan Registered Senior Member

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    Who says it is ok to kill him

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    If the Prophet didnt allow people to be killed who abused him during his lifetime, why in Gods name should Rushdie be killed. That fatwa was wrong. And Rushdie was a hypocrite liar as well.

    You dont know anything abou the Suras. The Arabic lexicon is incredibly complex and huge and I doubt your mastery over the Arabic language.
     
  20. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    Personally, I think it's about time that some whites had the cajones to expose the travesty that is Islam. The problem is that in doing so, the politically correct whiny liberals will scream 'Racism' (as if criticising a religion somehow equates to condemning a race). However, before we can deal with the Islamic plague, we first need to address the Caucasaphobia prevalent in many Western countries. The Islamic invasion cannot be combated while Caucasophobia remains to hinder the efforts of Nationalists to retain their country's unique identity.
     
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You know, I do sometimes see Muslims on TV being interviewed and saying that these guys are wrong.

    BUT, most of the time these are very young home-grown Muslims. It seems the old imported type take a hands-off approach. They seemingly don't support it, while at the same time they don't get out there and say something. And actually the silence IS DEAFENING. To the point of seeming complicity- especially when the local Islamic book-store is selling some antisemitic literature suggesting martyrdom is a quick route to heaven.



    Anyway, a prime example IS those silly Mohammad cartoons. ALL HELL breaks lose and over what - a stupid cartoon?!?!? YET hardly, if any, a peep when those Buddhist statues were destroyed. Why? THOSE were Afghan heritage - yet nothing. That's so sad to me. And probably to a lot of Afghans as well. Where were the Pakistan rallies when these irreplaceable statues destroyed? The time when the KSA arse-hole roasted the flesh right off those innocent young girls - where was the outrage??? Where were cartoon-style riots across the middle east then?


    Which is worse 1 girl dieing from an honor killing or a million gay-porn movies staring Mohammad? Seriously - I want to know which one is worse???

    Michael
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    Why do you think this particular individual decided to make such a movie mountainhare? I'll give you a hint. The guy is a white supremacist.

    Seeing how most of the Muslims in Holland are not white, screams of "racism" would be valid. This movie is not meant to just portray the violence, etc, in Islam. It was created with the explicit intention to insult and to create a culture of fear and hatred. Again, I'll give you another hint. The director and creator of the movie is a white supremacist. Surely you are able to make the connection.

    "Islamic plague"? Good grief mountainhare. Now you are sounding a tad phobic and paranoid.

    Don't worry sweety. Your white race will continue to survive and flourish so long as you don't interbreed.

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    Migration does not force you to breed with non-whites mountainhare. People do so by choice. Unless of course you are not advocating a forced breeding program, whereby governments actively prevent people from different races from having sex?

    Do you think making a movie that insults and demeans people of a particular religious faith is the way to go about it? Should the whites grab their pitchforks and torches and take to the streets.. possibly burning a few darkies at the stake along the way?

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  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The way to go about what - insulting a particular religious faith ? Seems like a straightforward way to me. Are we going to ban insults to religion, in our films, so the religious will not get upset ?

    Last riot time, the people with the pitchforks and torches - and burning darkies for real, btw - were Muslim, and quite vociferous about that.
     

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