equal rights to being punched in the face

thats slightly differant, then she is disturbed

 

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So then can I disturb her?

 

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If a guy ever punched me, there is no way I'd ever punch him back. I'm not going to continue a battle I have no way of winning.

 

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all i am saying is this...if a woman is big enough to throw a punch then she should be big enough to take it, most women know that hitting men is not advisable, they are stronger, and faster than us women.

Personally i have benn slappewd by an ex, and when i slapped back he was in shock and never hit me again

 

We in the 21st century would like to welcome you to the 19th

I'm sure there's a legitimate debate in here somewhere. But for now it sounds like the argument is generally a puppet debate between those who are severely unsettled by the growing irrelevance of men to the species and those who either don't realize or simply don't care.

In the meantime, both sides are presenting fairly simplistic arguments, although I would mark the root of that problem in the misogynistic argument. Seriously, how do we isolate the here and now from the rest of history? Who slaps who is not a question that exists solely in a vacuum. Rather, it is intrinsically tied to history. How is it that the statistical majority of society is the empowerment minority? The answer is violence. The answer is stupid, moronic, childish, violence.

I just watched the movie Children of Men for the first time the other night. Apparently we need a freakin' apocalypse to remind some people of the intrinsic difference that compels us to respect women.

As long as we treat the situation as some grace bestowed by men (don't hit women because they're smaller and weaker), we will remain mired in the misogyny of the nineteenth century°.

Why some regard equality according to the most selfish, demanding, narrow-minded notions possible is beyond me. It seems as if they don't care that they exist in society, or else somehow believe that society exists for them. The reality is that it's wrong to hit anyone. Okay? What's that? You want to pick nits about self-defense? Fine! Go ahead. What is it about machismo that has such a ludicrous hair-trigger on what constitutes a demand for "self-defense"? I've been amazed, in the past, at what people describe as being attacked. "He hit me!" Oh, bullsh@t. Maybe he was in your face. Maybe he made physical contact. But no, he did not "hit" you.

Self-defense? "He was asking me directions! I needed to defend myself!" Self-defense? "The kid was looking through my trash for something to eat! I had to defend myself!" Self-defense? "I think my neighbor is being robbed! I need to defend myself!"

You know, a friend of mine once faced a violent, enraged girlfriend. When the cops came, they were amazed to find that he hadn't hit her. I wasn't. He was trained in aikido. He knew how to defend himself. In the meantime, he wasn't going to lay out someone that much smaller than himself, male or female. Why? Because he didn't need to.

So screw all this argument about who's bigger, or self-defense. It has nothing to do with gender. Violence should be a last resort. And as long as people who would seek any excuse for violence are complaining that their equal rights are violated by an ancient custom that pertains directly to the perpetuation of our species, well, in this country we only use one finger for that response.

Yes, you have a right to defend yourself. You also have an obligation to integrity.

In the meantime, this temporally-dislocated argument, founded in rampant, misguided assertions of self-interest, is thoroughly infantile.

We aren't living in the nineteenth century. In theory, we should have made some progress since then. Those who would hide behind the skirts of feminists in order to pretend outrage over some vast imaginary bias in favor of women need to take a whiff of themselves for a change.
________________________

Notes:

° misogyny of the nineteenth century — Mark Steel, in his televised Lecture on Sylvia Pankhurst noted:

Sylvia Pankhurst was born in Manchester in 1882, at a time when, to most people in authority, the idea of women voting was heresy. For example, the MP for Hereford, C. W. Radcliffe Hooke, said, "I will oppose the right of women to vote until women are bigger than men!" Which is fantastic logic. So what about big women, then? Do they get the vote? And what about things that are bigger than men? Can they vote?​

And imagine the crawl: "ICM poll puts Labour 5% ahead with farmyard animals".

 

Surely you would fight back instinctively? At least when I was in fights as a kid, sheer instinct would take over and I'd start flailing away.

Hey, goddammit, I wasn't accusing anyone. I was just pointing out that it is wrong to harm a man just as it is wrong to harm a woman.

 

I never got in a fight as a kid. I've never been in a fight as an adult. I've slapped 1 man, and I got beat 2x by another.

Only way I'm giving it all I've got is if my kids are involved or I fear for my life, which wasn't the case in the 2 beatings I got.

First time I got hit was a fist to the face. When the room quit spinning, I started crying, he hugged me, apologized, I made small talk and he left.
Cops picked him up 1/2 an hr later.
Next time was a week later when he made bail and he 'escorted' me into my house when I came home from work. I ran out into a snowstorm, he grabbed my coat, I got out of it, kept running, slipped on ice in the middle of the road. When I went down, he started kicking. When I came to, he was gone. I wobbled home, went to the bathroom to check myself out. He came out of my son's bedroom. He apologized, wanting make up sex. I said "ok, sorry I pissed you off. I just need to call my ex and let him know I won't be picking my son up tonight" I called 911 and pretended to be talking to my ex. I went to lock the door and instead opened it, letting a butt load of cops into my house. Again he went to jail. But this time there was no bail and his green and was revoked. So off to prison, then back to his home country. He is also on a 'do not enter' list now.

I fight back how I can.

 

Orleander that is terible and you did exactly the right thing. NO ONE has the right to do that, which is exactly the point. No one has the right to comit domestic vilonce, man or woman. I can garentiee I wont stand there and let anyone else hit and bite me again.

 

The oddest thing was when I was in the ER getting my head looked at (no anal probing!!!!) the Doctor sat me down and had a long talk about domestic violence and there were people who could help me...yada yada yada. I was like "I'm ok. My body just isn't. I called the cops, he's in jail. We quit dating after the first punch." It never even occurred to me that some women take that crap.
My Mom didn't raise victims.

I never second guessed myself. It had nothing to do with me. It was him.

 

But If I had slapped him, which got me the first punch to the face, would that have been equal and fair?

 

that is impressive, you are quite rare. Victoms of sexual abuse or domestic vilonce rarly report, thats victioms from either sex.

Just for the record everyone seem to be arguing that abuse is only physical or maybe sexual

Hate to tell you people but there are 5 types of recognised abuse towards adults (excempting neglect which can happen but is generally aimed at children, the elderly or the mentaly or physically disabled)

Those are:
Physical
Emotional
Sexual
Social
Finantial

Physical and sexual abuse maybe the easiest to prosicute but they are not nessarly the worst.

This is where the problem with service delivery is (this is esspecially for James). If the police and DPP wont take the case you cant recive victoms of crime assistance, yes you could pay for a shrink but that would come out of your pocket. The goverment is paying for a free, anonimous, counciling service trained specifically to deal with these issues and then telling half the population, "who cares if you need it, its not for you" that breaches the sexual discrimination act

 

What about finacial abuse where the one with all the cash tells the other they better do as they are told or they will not get any money to live with. Pimps use that all the time to keep their "girls" in check.

 

what do you think the last one on that list is???

if your going to read only the first line of a post and ignore the rest im not going to bother responding to you

 

Orleander:

If a girl grabs my butt, can I turn around and slap her? If a girl calls me a foul name (such as that 'small cocked faggot satire'), can I slap her?

The simple fact of the matter is 'No'. That's assault under the law, and if reported, I'd be thrown in the slammer so fast my head would spin.

If a guy grabs your butt, you report him to the police. If he calls you a foul name, you walk away. That's what men are expected to do. If you want equal rights with men, then you must also share the burden of acting like a rational adult, and not resorting to violence at every perceived slight.

Lots of women who are victims of domestic assault 'know why they got hit', and 'took it'.

 

James why make the campain about one side of the issue at all?

I found the campain timing to be highly contrevertial. You dont think the whole thing couldnt have just been the howard goverment trying to get the feminist vote?

why is it when someone says they are antifeminisum that is a bad thing?
have i ever once said i am anti equal rights?
HELL no
but i object compleatly to a movement that only focus on one side of the issue, i am not that one eyed that i think they are all rabid anti-men (infact both the womens housing advisery board and the womens health advisery board BOTH called for similer boards dealing with mens issues)
I do however object to a sociaty that thinks if you stick up for mens health or mens issues that you are a shovinist

I am for TRUE equality even to the point that if a man wants to wear a dress or have long hair and a school or business alows its women to do that they should alow it under the antidescrimination act (the long hair at school was a real case but i cant rember the result). Same for women who want to wear pants or fight on the front line

You do realise that the ADB forced the scouts to alow girls into it but guides are still female only
Or that mens clubs (like the melbourne club, not strip clubs) were being challanged by the anti descrimination board at EXACTLY the same time that fernwood was starting up

Or that there was recently a nightclub that got permission from the antidescrimination board to alow them to ban men from going in if it judged that there wasnt enough women in the club. I thought BOTH sides of the argument would challange that one but no one said a word. What about the fact that its legal for clubs to give free entry or free drinks based on sex? has ANYONE ever challanged that?

Have you ever looked at the mortality morbity rates for breast cancer vs prostate cancer?
What about the mortality, mobility rates for ovearian v testicula cancer?
god forbit we go overian v prostate rates?

Why is it that there are very few services for prostate cancer where as there are so many for breast. Now i am not saying that we shouldnt be giving money to resurcing breast cancer but we should be doing ALOT more for prostate cancer. My mother has had breast cancer so i ALWAYS buy a pink ribbon, but my grandfather DIED of prostate cancer, where is the ribbon for him? You know what the last apeal for a mens health issue i know about is? i ONCE saw a trailer where you threw money into a urinal for prostate cancer and depression in men.

The other thing is why the goverment not putting money into reducing the 5 year gap between mens life expedency and womens? Men have a higher mortality rate at every stage of there life (including neonates) but no one cares why

if your a politision and you put money into a womans health issue then you get an instant bost to your political surport, if you put that into mens health either no one cares or sometimes it actually goes against them because "brest cancer is more important". James do you think its right that the drug that treats brest cancer AND prostate cancer (where its the ONLY choice) is just avialable on the PBS for women?
it costs men $1000 a shot and women vertually nothing

I compleatly surport an END to male shovinisium but i ALSO surport the end of feminisum. People should be pushing for EQUAL rights not one or the other, it shouldnt be wrong to push for needed money for either men or women.

 

Thank you bell, I have only been saying the same thing for 3 pages

 

Bells, trust me, I know. Some of the worst beatings that you will ever see will be of women who have done something to not only provoke the man, but to drive him right off his nut. I know men who were hurt so badly by women that if they ever did hit a woman, it would probably be some time before they stopped, because when some women take to beating a man or a child, they just keep hitting and hitting until they physically can't anymore. And you know what some of them are sick of? Females who continually drain a man's wallet and who use lame excuses why they won't get a job. They can't save money. They can't keep the house up, the car repairs, or bills paid. If SHE would get a job and earn money then both of them could have a life. But that isn't going to happen and she is not going to allow things to get better.

I've heard of people being arrested for breaking objects when they were angry. I sort of expect the victim of that arrest to eventually shoot a police officer.

And how in hell can men become irrelevant to society? I don't know three women where I work who can lift boxes weighing about 40 pounds all day. Men invented and engineered a lot of things, and maybe when they didn't let women in it was because they didn't want to do most of their work for them, put up with passive-aggressive nonsense, or be accused of sexual harassment just because it was that time of the month or the woman actually wanted to have sex with him and he didn't.

It's time for everyone to get off their high horses because there is no one who is all that much better than the other. I don't have to hit on people for being messed up or weaker or stupider than I am, but the person who keeps hitting me or deliberately messing me up, that person is in grave danger. It might not be physical violence, but it's being done to me continuously, what they won't put up with and what they would even accuse me of being a criminal if I did exactly the same thing to them. Where in HELL are my rights? Am I being screwed over precisely because I tried to be rational and nice?