Beheading in the Name of Islam

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sandy, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. superstring01 Moderator

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    The single greatest, only noteworthy, pearl of wisdom in this entire debate.

    ~String
     
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  3. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Now exactly what kind of fate is worse than having your throat slit, and the video of the beheading of Nick Berg wasn't just slitting his throat, and neither was Daniel Pearlman, murder as simple as having his throat cut.

    iceaura................I can't even come up with the word to say how fucked up your values are if you think being bound up, getting your throat cut isn't the worse way in the world to be murdered, only exceeded by being decapitated....in the way they were, damed your sick.

    Nick Berg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Includes edited version of video without beheading. Full-length video of Nick Berg's decapitation. WARNING: Graphic contents · Who killed Nick Berg? ...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Berg

    Daniel Pearl 'refused to be sedated before his throat was cut ...
    Horrifying new details of how Daniel Pearl, the murdered Wall Street Journal ... Shocking video film of Pearl's murder, seen around the world via the ...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/09/wpearl09.xml
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Beheading two innocent men is worse than cluster bombing millions of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis and nuclear bombing hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese ? Strange values.
     
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  7. superstring01 Moderator

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    No. But that's not the debate, SAM. How is it that every issue on Earth comes back to the USA?

    If something horrible happens inside the USA, you squeal like a banshee about it.

    If something horrible happens outside the USA, you squeal like a banshee about it and somehow spin it to be the fault of the USA (or, attempt to distract away from the issue by bringing the USA into it).

    Question(s) for you: is there even the slightest possibility that you can keep your A.D.D. afflicted mind tuned to a topic without blaming America? Can it be that somewhere, somehow, a person dies an it NOT be America's fault? Does all your moral relativism mean that no one can debate any issue if they are in any way linked to the USA, despite the fact that people the world around do bad things without any help from Bush & Co.? And if so, then isn't it the least bit appropriate to actually focus on those facts without trying hide every misdeed behind "THE BIG BAD USA"?

    A different war, different times... and not even remotely comparable to what we're talking about now.

    Using your methodology is like saying, "Well, my neighbor got away with doing something really really bad ten years ago, so you shouldn't even talk about this bad thing now... because LOOK at the bad things he did way back then!"

    SAM: I'm growing tired of this. Debate the point, or I'll delete your posts.

    ~String
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    okay, answer this,

    How is the beheading of either man beheading in the name of Islam?

    One was in Afghanistan, the second in Abu Ghraib.

    Was there beheading of American tourists before US intervention?

    Why do you allow such threads demonising Muslims and complain about US policy discussions in such threads?
     
  9. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    BINGO! Now you've hit upon the relevant point.

    To answer, it's not directly a result of Islam so much as Islam is a religion created out of the traditions of Arabia. Unlike modern Christianity which doesn't contain unbending Shria-like governmental/legal framework(s), Islam's set-in-stone ideologies has served to preserve outmoded traditions that might otherwise have changed during the last 200 years were it more flexible. The west's advancement past the ME is not to blame for everything bad that has happened in the ME so much as Islamic recalcitrance in accepting "modern" ideologies and philosophies (tolerance, equality, etcetera). In the end Islamic nations do have the unfortunate standing of utilizing some rather barbaric methods: debating their toleration of such barbarism is just as relevant as YOUR debating American ignorance of/toleration of the USA's pointless attack on Iraq in other threads, but NOT acceptable as a distraction away from those points).

    Why not be even more ridiculously specific and ask, "Was there beheadings of white men named Alfred, who are from Weyauwega, Wisconsin before the US intervention?" The fact is, no matter who was beheaded, beheadings are a part of some Islamic nations, and as such, SAM it is relevant and acceptable to debate and criticize those systems without squealing like a stuck pig that "It's all the west's fault" as you are so apt to do.

    For the same reason I tolerate half a trillion other threads that do nothing but serve as your personal soap box to caterwaul about the evils of American imperialism: because they are relevant, despite you inability to admit as much.

    If Christianity (or a majority of Christian dominated nations) accepted dismemberment as an acceptable form of punishment: then an acceptable ad hom debate on the obvious brutality of Christianity would be timely and appropriate. As such, Christianity does not, and yet Islam does.

    The debate stands. Participate with all your erudition, or do not. I stand by the fact that I'll delete your attempts to hijack these threads for your own purposes.

    ~String
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So I am free to criticise the US policy of destabilising governments in such countries, bombing them back to the "stone age" and hence to kinship and tribal legal systems, in the absence of a stable government?

    Especially since one can directly relate the escalation in such incidents to US intervention?

    Or are you claiming that Nick Berg would have been beheaded in any Muslim country simply for being a non Muslim white American?

    It is my claim that Nick Berg would not have been beheaded if the US had not invaded Iraq.

    Agree or disagree?
     
  11. Till Eulenspiegel Registered Member

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    419
    S.A.M.,
    Are you trying to convince us that there were no beheadings before the U.S. and its allies went to the Middle East and Afghanistan? Are you suggesting that the killing of gays began only after that incursion? Is it your contention that women were not killed for dishonoring their families by being raped before 9/11?

    The history of barbaric behavior by certain segments of the Muslim world is well documented and began long, long before the present.

    You are on very weak ground when you try to blame the United States and the West for the way Muslims interpret their relgious texts.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    And? Are you saying that any country that does not have an American system of "justice" should be consigned to Abu Ghraib?

    I disagree with many policies in the ME, many of which also occur in Asian countries. But these are reflections of the social economic and educational development in the country.

    If you disagree, do what I do. Support education, support stability, economic and social, support development and infrastructure.

    And stop demonising them for their conditions, when you are the major reason they cannot get out of it.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. superstring01 Moderator

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    Sure, if you can prove that they were truly bombed "back to the stone age" (even after all the billions wasted in improving infrastructure).

    Really? You can? So, all the beheadings that have happened in the Middle East are a result of American meddling... or just most of them? So, what with all those pesky beheadings before western intervention? Still America's fault?

    Nope. America, as I've said, has botched a lot of things internationally. But you can't justify such things by saying, "Well, if American had done this or that..." because that's entirely speculative. The fact is: Islam has frozen their people's mentalities in a time that has long (and rightfully past), and all you can do is apologize for it and [GASP!] blame the USA.

    Here's what I want to know: is there anything bad that happens in any Muslim nation that (in your mind) isn't rooted in American evil? Is there nothing that can be criticized and improved in the Middle East that is not worthy of a discussion on your part? Or is it just too much trouble to admit the obvious fact (which fact is equal to anything done by America): Islam overly-tolerates such things because of it's unbending traditions, which stifles investment and innovation in favor of rusty traditions.

    We're not talking about Sufi's or Dervishes here, the Sunni and Shia who dominate Islamic life have not (at least for the last 750 years or so) been the most tolerant people and whilst the ideologies of toleration have been percolating through the rest of the world, especially in all those poor, starving nations the USA bombed in all wars PREVIOUS to this one, Islam has kept chugging along in the dark ages.

    And what of those countries "bombed back to the stone age"? Korea, Vietnam, Germany, Japan: all have economies and cultures that are either rich as hell, or are growing at significantly faster rates than anything in the ME. Currently the industrial output of Vietnam is greater than the entire ME if you subtract oil (and the embargo only ended during the Clinton admin!). You see: there is a different culture there, and even stifled under communism, barricaded in by pointless American embargo's, it out-paces anything in the Islamic world. In fact, one could almost excuse any Vietnamese failure in anything they have done for the last 30 years: bombed "back to the stone age", raped and pillaged by US soldiers, yadda, yadda, yadda... and yet, oddly enough, Vietnam has one of the fastest growing economies on Earth (but, I'm sure you'll try to distract from this fact by brining up all those old land mines left by the Army, or some other pathetic tactic).

    So, SAM, why is it that after trillions of dollars in petrol sales, is not ONE Middle Eastern nation significantly industrialized? It's not like they aren't "trying", and they certainly have enough students in the best American colleges, furthermore, it certainly isn't like the USA has the ability to stop the UAE, Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al, from doing so... so why haven't they advanced beyond oil rigs and rough-necks?

    Oh, that's right... it's America's fault.

    Tell that to the Vietnamese who seem to have overcome that handicap quite readily.

    ~Sting
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Stop supporting kings and dictators and the ME will do better too. Mossadegh is a good case in point.

    Toppling governments, arming conflicts and supporting fundies does not create a democracy.

    Forcing your favorite puppet into power does not create a stable society.
     
  15. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    Wow SAM... way to avoid my point(s).

    QUICK... if you puke out your normal agitprops, no one will notice the real fact: you avoid any real confrontation of facts, especially those that undeniably paint the true picture of modern Islam.

    Lemme' guess: it's the US's fault too?

    Next time clap your hands really hard when you say it, it might come true.

    Typical of you.

    ~String
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    FYI:

    Father of Beheaded Iraq Hostage Blames Bush Administration For Son’s Death

    Why don't you tell him:
     
  17. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    Wait... you're waiting for me to defend the Bush admin? Not a chance. But beheadings happend long before anything that the USA did in Iraq. Blame Gertrude Bell for that one.

    So, just to recap: you have no answer as to why an agrarian backwater that was bombed "back to the stone age" and then abandoned by the USA currently out-paces anything in the ME even after more than 20 years of an embargo.

    Just checking.

    ~String
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe because of this:

    The last official American military action in South East Asia occurred on May 15, 1975.

    Followed by this:

    In a historic shift in 1986, the Communist Party of Vietnam implemented free-market reforms known as Đổi Mới (renovation). With the authority of the state remaining unchallenged, private ownership of farms and companies, deregulation and foreign investment were encouraged. The economy of Vietnam has achieved rapid growth in agricultural and industrial production, construction and housing, exports, and foreign investment. It is now one of the fastest growing economies in the world.
     
  19. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    16,931
    Islam is the leader in trying to destabilize countries, convert or kill or kill the people and take them back to a intolerant, extremist religion, that demand conversion, or second class status, (Dhimmitude with all the Discrimination, and Segregation, Apartheid, and loss of legal rights that are the status of a Dhimmi) for those that don't convert, or death for not converting.
     
  20. superstring01 Moderator

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    Supported by...

    Oh... your claims.

    But, again, SAM, we're at the heart of the issue... which issue, you tactically avoid: there was US interference all the way up to the 90's (um... did I mention the embargo?) and there wasn't US invasions (nothing compared to Vietnam) before the 90's in the ME... and, still, no industrialization.

    Nice try... and a petty excuse. But it avoids the point: Islam and modernity (at least ingenuity & entrepreneurship ) aren't all that compatible with Islam.

    ~String
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You belabor under the delusion that modernity equals Americanism.

    Vietnam as you say did very well inspite of US sanctions.

    And please, look up US intervention all the way from 1925 and especially 1952 in the ME.
     
  22. superstring01 Moderator

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    Did I mention the US embargo against Iran (not invaded), and Iran exports billions in oil which can be reinvested in industry. The Vietnamese have only their... rice? wits?

    No. The answer is simple and obvious: both regions have "suffered" under US intervention and only one has done anything remotely resembling industrialization?

    Must be America's fault: we're plotting with those silly Vietnamese to make the Muslims look bad.

    ~String
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Excuse me, you do remember Iran before the Shah? An autocrat to replace an elected government?

    A country that embraced parliamentary democracy 100 years ago?
     

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