Are the Democrats about to march to their doom?

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I think you're wrong. The Democrats will vote for the Democratic candidate, whoever that is. If Hillary wins the nomination, perhaps there will be a Clinton/Obama ticket. It's the perfect time. The race is very important, but the Republicans are not predicted to do well anyway. The Clinton name evokes images of peace and prosperity, and it's about time we had a woman in the Oval Office (that doesn't suck).

 

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Uh, unless by "people, regardless of politics," you mean to say "Republicans" then I don't know what you're talking about. The Democrats aren't counting on the racist, misogynist demographic to get them into the White House; those guys have been the sole province of the Republican party since the Nixon administration.

The potential problem with the black/woman candidates is not that people who would have otherwise supported their platform will decline to vote for them based on prejudices. Rather, it's the possibility that the prospect of a black or female president will so inflame the bigots out there that they'll show up to vote 'against' the Democrats, even if they don't particularly like the Republican candidates. I.e., they risk energizing a certain component of the Republican base that would otherwise probably be non-plussed by the Republican candidates and so not vote in very large numbers.

 

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Yes, vote for those outstanding Democrats that keep right on funding the war as well as all voting for it too.

 

Yeah don't remind me.

 

I think a lot, if not all, of what you say is true, Fraggle.

But one thing that keeps coming up in my mind .....do the Democrats actually have a political strategy? If there is one, I sure as hell ain't figured it out yet! It seems to me that they're floundering like fish out of water, with no direction except perhaps blaming others for everything.

I don't know ...if the Democrats have a political strategy, what the hell is it?

Baron Max

 

Survey says ... it's a freakin' mess!

I think the timing question is an important one.

To borrow from Rolling Stone:

Democrats and their supporters are aware of this. They're not exactly keen to talk about the situation; in the end, I think they're hoping to be spared the choice: Can Obama or Hillary establish such a margin as to eliminate the question? Can they live up to the media hype?

The damnably frustrating thing is that the people who don't want to consider things like race are left with an obligation to do so. Most important is to establish a political mandate to save the United States of America from their government. There are labor Democrats in the midwest that won't support a Hillary ticket because they resent her womanhood. I mean, it's well enough to pretend that Edwards has the labor vote in his pocket, but in places like Iowa and Indiana, Democrats will actually admit that it's about gender.

Right now the media seems to be swooning over Hillary, much like they did with her husband back in '92. Jonathan Darman succumbed a couple of weeks ago in Newsweek; I've marked the article as a bellwether. It is disappointing. Democrats jumping on the bandwagon are definitely riding straight into the trap, but a question remains as to whether or not such a GOP tactic would work. Can the GOP make it a woman issue? Can they make it a black issue? The last seven years, at least, have driven liberals near to paranoia about their American neighbors. Come primary season, they might actually flinch, and fall in for Edwards. Liberals offer Democrats dubious trust, and are downright frightened by the ideas Republican voters will buy and sell. Liberals, at least, fear that GOP sexism or racism will actually work come the general election. Moderates (mainstream Democrats) might be idealistic enough to fall for the trap, and that's fine. Democratic supporters ought not let the GOP set their agenda. But if the Democratic moderates overestimate the voters at large, the consequences could be disastrous. Not only might Hillary lose the presidency, but Congressional Dems could easily be hurt in the midwest, and the GOP could become strong in state houses, thus poising Republicans to start amending the Constitution against women, atheists, Muslims, Hispanics, and gays.

There is a tremendous prize at stake, and none of us get to know exactly what it is behind the curtain. This is an election that well could "decide the future of the Republic". This well could be the one in which "fate hangs in the balance". Hopefully, it's not. But more and more Bush critics are starting to fear that we are on the road to Coruscant.

It would be a great sleight of hand, wouldn't it, for the GOP to pull off a broad victory in which the alternative to Coruscant would be a return to the traditions of discrimination and hatred that the United States has sought to transcend. Are we really willing to trade the fight over Iraq and Iran for a fight over women, immigrants, gays, religion, and freedom itself? And yet we also know that we may not have to make that trade.

It's as bad an idea to vote for Hillary or Barack because of gender or race as it is to vote against them on such grounds. The danger of Hillary Clinton is more of the same compromises that let everybody put out a positive press release while nothing real gets done. The danger of Barack Obama is that a lack of finesse might trigger the kind of rhetorical explosion that drags everything to a halt. The danger of John Edwards is one of betrayal: the guy is damn near promising the sun, the moon, and the stars.

I think we'll be surprised when the primaries arrive. I'm just not sure what that surprise will look like. The Democratic ticket may well be decided by February. We might well see the trap spring shut before summer. And by convention time, hopefully we'll know just how bad the damage is or isn't.
____________________

Notes:

Dickinson, Tim. "The Real Liberal: John Edwards is Third in the Polls, But Don't Count Him Out". Rolling Stone #1033. August, 2007. See http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...is_third_in_the_polls_but_dont_count_him_out/ ​

See Also:

Darman, Jonathan. "How She Would Govern". Newsweek. September 17, 2007. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20649206/site/newsweek/ ​

 

A lot of Democrats are Democrats because their union tells them they should be. The guys are red neck good old boys. Many of them are my patients. Hell, both my brother in laws vote Democrat for that reason. But I really can't see these guys voting for a black or woman.

 

Clinton seemed to make a good impression at the AFL-CIO debate.

 

I've had some union guys, guys who always vote Democrat, tell me they absolutely will not vote for Hilary. And Republicans hate her so much she'll energize the Republican base like no one else.

 

I don't think Americans will vote for a woman or a black man. If that is the only choice, they will vote Republican, even if it means the end of America as a leader of the world.

 

I assume you'd support the end of America candidate?

 

Paid Propaganda from SAM

If you think, that then you definitly don't know JACK about America.

 

???

I think America should vote for Obama, its time they moved beyond skin color and race.

Hillary is a Republican in disguise.

 

George Bush was president TWICE.

A man known by his own poo flag.:shrug:

 

Paid Propaganda from SAM 40+ a day.

Now moving beyond skin color why the hell should America vote for a junior senator, with less than 2 years of experience? Just what does he offer worth voting for

 

Isn't Obama an Islamist also? So he is Black, and Muslim. Ain't no white guys gonna vote for him.

 

Paid Propaganda from SAM 40+ a day.

And what does that have to do with a reason for voting for Obama?

 

Thats Osama, Obama is Christian.

edit: are you a Panjab da puttar?

 

The problem with Obama goes well beyond the color of his skin. I disagree with him on almost every issue (actually only 70% of the issues).

Personally, I couldn't care less about the race of a candidate. I'd vote for an all black government if they were all conservative. Ideas matter, not melanin.