The Role of the Police

(Disclaimer: I tried to make this a short one. Really.)

This topic is established in order to explore specifically our thoughts about the role of the police in society, and comes about in consideration of comments in a topic regarding the use of a Taser on an autistic teenager.

Statement: "yes seattle cops are dicks...I live in Tacoma area and the cops here are not any better." (#1548752/77)

Response/Proposition: "all cops are to be respected." (#1548756/79)

Inquiry: "You're kidding, right?" (#1548761/80)

Response: "no." (#1548765/82)​

Specifically, the question arises, "Under what circumstances is that respect forfeit?" Presumably, given the generality of the discussion at this point, the answer is "Never." But this theoretic answer is untenable. Obviously, there are corrupt cops, and the idea that a criminal wearing a badge should be treated differently than any other criminal is difficult at best. Of course, we might also wonder about the scope of "respect" in this context. Does a corrupt cop lose the respect granted all criminal suspects under the law? I don't see why, but a more general question seems appropriate.

• What is the role of the police in society?​

Considerations of varying degrees:

(1) Norman, Oklahoma: Police attempting to deal with a snake hanging from a bird-feeder fire a .40-caliber handgun twice, killing a five year-old boy fishing nearby.

(2) Seattle, Washington: Police surround a mentally-retarded man suspected of robbing a convenience store with a kitchen knife. The man walks slowly, nonchalantly down the sidewalk with a half-circle of police officers at least twenty-five feet away. The man stops and turns around. An officer fears for his life and shoots the suspect, killing him.

(3) Seattle, Washington: A suspect attempts to flee a traffic stop. The nearest officer grabs onto the car as it pulls away. Fearing for his partner's life, a second officer fires past the other, killing the driver.

(4) Tulia, Texas: Forty-six suspects are arrested in 1999 in an alleged cocaine-distribution ring. The arrests include forty black citizens, equaling 17% of Tulia's black population. Thirty-five children are orphaned. No drug paraphernalia was discovered during the raids. The first trial ended in December, 1999, with Joe W. Moore sentenced to 90 years in prison. Between January and September, 38 defendants would plead out. September, 2000, saw the last of the Tulia trial convictions, with Kareem Abdul Jabbar White sentenced to 60 years. First-time offenders (eligible for probation) were sentenced to 20-25 years. The tallest sentence went to William C. Love, a white man who fathered a child by a black woman; his convictions for making multiple deliveries, the largest of which was an ounce of crack, resulted in a four hundred thirty-five year sentence. Before this drama would end, though, the whole thing would unravel. The investigating officer, Thomas Coleman, had been hired by Swisher County while being investigated for abuse of official capacity; the charges would later be dropped after Coleman paid restitution. Coleman was the only witness against any of the defendants. Coleman perjured himself in a probation revocation hearing against one of the defendants. Coleman provided no recordings or other evidence, and did not keep permanent notes. His claims about drug deal locations exposed the defendants to increased penalties. Even the drugs involved were out of character: the defendants were mostly poor and from a neighborhood where crack ruled, yet they were charged with moving powdered cocaine. In 2002, one defendant is released from prison after it is established that she was not even in the state at the time Coleman claimed she sold him cocaine. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals established a court under retired District Judge Chapman to deal with four Tulia cases. In March, 2003, Chapman stops hearings after both prosecution and defense attorneys agree that Coleman is "a racist, a liar, and a thief". In April, Judge Chapman recommends that all 38 Tulia convictions should be thrown out. Prosecutors decide to not retry the cases. Later that month, Coleman is indicted for perjury during Chapman's hearings. In July, the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles grants 35 pardons to Tulia defendants. In August, 2003, Swisher County refuses to assist District Attorney McEachern's fight against a Texas State Bar Association grievance concerning his role in the Tulia debacle. Tom Coleman was convicted of one count of perjury in January, 2005. Coleman was sentenced to ten years' probation. Interestingly, Special Prosecutor Rod Hobson said, after Coleman's trial, that Coleman's boss, Sheriff Larry Stewart, was the "evil architect in this whole deal", implying that Coleman took a fall.

(5) King County (Seattle area), Washington: Officers surround a location believed to shelter suspected bank robber Scott "Hollywood" Spurlock. As they approach, officers hear a gunshot; Spurlock killed himself instead of being taken in. In the aftermath, several officers attempt to file a lawsuit against Spurlock's estate, claiming mental distress for being denied a collar.

(6) King County, Washington: Sheriff Dave Reichert (presently U.S. Representative) attempts to fire a deputy videotaped committing multiple assaults during WTO riot in Seattle. Union intervenes, and, after arbitration, Reichert is required to reinstate the deputy with back pay and penalty for wrongful dismissal. Despite the fact that the deputy is clearly identifiable in video footage as he attacks a someone tending to an injured person in the street, and also as he pepper-sprays a car outside the restricted "red zone" for no apparent reason, the deputy cannot be punished because he is in riot gear, and when in riot gear, individual officers are regarded according to their collective unit. The entire unit cannot be punished for one person's actions, therefore the deputy cannot be punished for his own actions.​

What is the role of the police in society? During the 1990s, amid the Rodney King debacle and, later, the Rampart CRASH scandal, the Los Angeles Police Department motto--"To Protect and Serve"--became an object of social and comedic derision. The California Highway Patrol motto is "Safety, Service, and Security". The Colorado State Patrol is longer. According to Wikipedia,

The Georgia State Patrol boasts, "Wisdom, Justice, and Moderation". Seattle Police Department: "Service - Pride - Dedication" (SPD). (I can't figure out whether the Washington State Patrol even has a motto.) New York Police Department, I should add, proclaims, "Faithful Unto Death".

To start with that last, faithful to what? SPD's motto often seems fulfilled; Chief Kerlikowske is proud to be dedicated to servicing his officers. I like Georgia's, both grand and specific. But LAPD's "To Protect and Serve" is somewhat emblematic. This is the idea that many of my generation were taught, that police officers were there for the community, to help people, to protect them. And this, I would assert, is the proper role of the police.

Many would laugh at that notion, though. It certainly doesn't seem like this is what police are intended for. There is a hard truth that people don't like to admit, especially in times like these. But yes, it is the job of the police to "take one for the team". It is their job to risk injury and death for the common citizens. And yet many seem trigger happy, temperamental, or, of late, willing to use a Taser if it means they don't have to muss their hair. Cops aren't there to answer your questions, to help you understand what the law is. More and more, police seem to be removed overlords serving some esoteric cause. And yet we see assertions like the one above, that "all cops are to be respected".

What degree of respect? If someone had shot Tom Coleman in the middle of that debacle, would people have wept and extolled his faithful service to the people? Do cops who look at their service as a burden deserve the respect invoked in another topic, that being a police officer is a positive statement about character because "you are willing to risk your life for others"? After all, in Seattle, 'tis better for the cop to not take that chance, and shoot someone for looking at him.

I should close this by saying a couple of nice things about law enforcement; after all, there are those who will throw hissy-fits if I don't. It's not too much of an effort to stave off the whining and crying, after all.

In Seattle, once upon a time, in the wake of a drug raid that went horribly awry, the police took a cautious approach for a time. This resulted in a curious eleven-hour standoff in the downtown area with a man wielding a katana. They tried damn near everything; tear gas, fire hoses, and I think they even had bean-bag guns. Eventually, they just hosed him and waited; after eleven hours, the man was too cold and exhausted to hold onto the sword, and our brave police got their man. Needless to say, public opinion was split. Many thanked SPD for its handling of the incident, while one memorable letter to the editor of a local newspaper complained that the police should have shot the man; the resulting traffic tangle caused the woman to be late picking her son up from soccer practice. On days like that, it must suck to be SPD. (In the years since, regrettably ... but wait, I'm supposed to be saying nice things.)

And I can say that my dealings with the Snohomish County Sheriff's Department (just north of Seattle) earn my praise. I can recall three incidents in which I praise them highly for their service: on an occasion involving my daughter as a Houdini, the deputy did not laugh when I explained that I did not have a chain-lock on my door because my lease specifically prohibited it; on another, a deputy explained that he was fingerprinting my car as a formality, and that barring a hit on someone already in custody, it probably wouldn't matter; the third gave me a lift home once under circumstances I'd rather not explain, suffice to say that he probably could have arrested me if he was so inclined. In fact, about the only thing I could possibly ask of SCSD is that they reinstate a lost relic of ages past, a non-emergency reporting line. Because, really, I understand; 911 is for life-threatening emergencies. And I do understand that the 911 operators get a lot of shit and a lot of stupid calls. And no, nobody's dead and nobody's dying, but when someone is setting off bombs in the neighborhood, do they really have to be so goddamned rude? Seriously, it would be nice to be able to call the station and say, "Could you send someone by to check out the explosions just up the street?" I feel really stupid dialing 911 when my car was stolen hours ago, or even when there are bombs going off. (What? There's no screams, no buildings falling over, nothing on fire ... just enormously loud explosions in the neighbor's backyard.) There's a reason people are reluctant to call 911 unless there's blood in the streets or spattered on the windows. And I know I'm not the only one who's been through this. And for some reason, down in Houston, I'm told the 911 operator was equally snooty about the fact that the incident was already over. (Started out as a carjacking, ended up as a civilized mugging for all of ten cents; a truly strange story that ended with the suspect asking where the nearest bus stop was.)

At any rate ... what are the police for?

 

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That respect should never go away, cops have fucking guns. In this city where I used to live(not Cleveland, the pop. is only ~50k), the cops are buying assault rifles now. Obviously police are dickhead, anyone who's ever dealt with them knows that. They're pussies aswell. Next time you have to deal with a cop put your hands in your pockets, they'll start freaking out no matter how many of them are there with their guns. However, you should still respect them; they have guns and you'll get your assed kicked and tasered and clubbed and fined out the ass with like 30 days in jail if you try to fight them.

 

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How do police know when someone is autistic or medically impaired? How does the police know when someone is trying to hurt themselves or others and just isn't right in their minds? If anyone here can tell the differences please let me know and I will stand corrected.

 

No, you didn't. And worse, you cited only instances of cops doing questionable, or bad, things, without citing an equal number of things that the cops have done well. You've slanted the topic in such a way as to show your own prejudice against cops ...and by citing emotionally charged cases, you've tried to lead the "witnesses" against the cops.

Laws are enacted by the duly elected officials of the locale, the police are charged with enforcing those legally enacted laws. If people, or suspects, resist arrest, fight the police, or in some way endanger themselves or others, the taser is a quick way of ending that action.

Baron Max

 

the roal of police, to make things more difficult than they actually are, two community officers stood by and watched a 10yr old boy drown, because they didnt have the proper training to deal with the situation, but the boy drowned in a pond!!

 

You cite one single instance ...which leads people to think only bad of the cops. Why not cite some of the instances where cops saved lives, and helped members of society?

Are you as prejudiced against the cops as Tiassa?

Baron Max

 

Could you provide us with a link to that story? There seems to be something missing which you might have left out. Thanks.

 

i try and find it for you dear sir!!

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...support-duo-left-boy-to-drown-89520-19829255/

 

Ahh, those guys were not police officers! This topic is about police officers, not someone masquerading as police or about security guards and such.

Baron Max

 

PCSO's are the police, just a category with lesser powers :crazy:

My own experience with cops has been mixed. I do not like this uncontrolled tasering of people.

e.g. http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/21/ohio.taser/?iref=mpstoryview#cnnSTCVideo

 

Thank you my man! Now here's an interesting part that you left out also, besides the part these weren't actual police, "Two anglers jumped in and rescued Bethany as she clung to Jordon's neck. But the lad disappeared under the water." So why didn't those guys go back in after the lad went under, it would seem they were already trying to help out for awhile before the PCSO's. even had arrived. What really more could they have done if the lad was already under for awhile and the anglers already tried to rescue him?True they could have jumped in and become another problem with more people in the water but they weren't taught how to do this as they stated.

 

woman

 

Pardon, thank you my WOMAN!

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It's not easy to correct a question.
Here's the thing: your questions could be asked after any situation police use violence against someone like this. Obviously some violence would be too much. So you can't just make broad stroke defenses in the guise of questions.

 

Can it be misused?

 

your welcome my dear man!

 

I was just wondering ....how would you, Tiassa, respond if I'd made a similar post, citing some instances of bad blacks in our society, then asked:

Well, at any rate, ... what are the blacks in our society for?

You'd have hurried to label me a racist, probably given me an infraction or banned me, and probably locked the thread as inciting racism.

So here you're doing exactly the same thing, except you're using a few examples of bad cops and implying that all cops are bad ...and asking what are cops for. Is this ...ahh, "copism" or "police-ism"?

How many cops are there in the USA? How many cops are bad cops? How many are good cops? Should we paint all cops bad because a few cops are bad?

Should we paint all blacks bad because a few of them are bad?

Baron Max

 

Quit whining.

That sort of ignorant comparison does nobody any good, Max. People are people. Now, if I go to a restaurant, and pay someone to make food, should I expect that person to know how to cook? What does it matter if the black man down the street can't cook, since I'm not paying him to cook the meal?

Nobody pays black people to be black, Max. I would have thought even you could figure that out.

Apparently not.