Is it wrong to be disgusted by homosexuals?

So you can...stop being bigoted towards a large group of people? :bugeye:

 

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I'm not going to respond to you point by point, Oli. That's the most obnoxious way to argue one can conceive of. Can you give me a simple piece of text/idea that I can argue against?

 

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Maybe that's because it is okay and not wrong?

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It's no different than teaching that people of different religious beliefs are okay, or that people of a different ethnic group than you are okay.
If tolerance needs to be taught for children of the modern world to understand how to accept and tolerate others, then so be it. Tolerance is a virtue heavily lacking in society, and it needs to be instilled within today's youth for them to function in a post-industrial, global society.

 

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But it's okay when you do it?
Another example of your double standards.

Simple piece of text to argue against?
If you're too lazy to respond then forget it, otherwise, stop making excuses.

 

Do you consider yourself to be the perfect example of a "Human Being"?

 

I'm sure you're one of few people who actually clicked on the link!
One of the girl's didn't like mustard.

Did you catch the "pickle surprise"??? It was in the related links to the right of the video.

 

I can't speak to how it is in the UK (though I suspect it is not nearly as bad as you may think, judging from what I hear from Brits I know) but I CAN say that what you are describing is what it was like in the US back in the 80's and early 90's.
There has been DRASTIC changes, not only in government policies and practices, but in general public opinion, in a short period of time.
Kids are out in High Schools all over the country.
Guys CAN be openly gay in most major cities (and many small towns) without fear of physical attacks.
There are still places where it hasn't changed much, but by and large it has changed quite a bit.
A big part of this is what you seem to discount so readily. Government policies, celebrities coming out and talking about it, positive portrayals in film and TV - people accepting it.

 

Good, if that's not mere wishful thinking but, as far as the UK is concerned, Ghost is pretty much right about the general attitudes - though overstating the reactions.

Few will go as far as physically attacking gay men (and it is almost exclusively the men who suffer the brunt of the prejudice - lesbianism is pretty much encouraged

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). Not many either will verbally attack them. However a large undercurrent of discrimination persists. Mainly, when gay men are encountered, the discrimination will take the form of muttered comments and jokes, or smirks and knowing looks. To be a gay man in Britain is to be reluctantly tolerated by most but fully accepted by very few.

The young seem to be an exception: our teenagers, for the most part, are breezily destroying all the old barriers erected by their forebears.

 

Ghost:
Schoolkids not coming out? Depends on the age, late schoolers, e.g. 15-16+ definitely do, I know dozens.

Which particular backwater of the UK do you live in?
Most of that (holding hands, the odd kiss, "acting gay") is par for the course in Scunny.
Getting the shit kicked out of them hasn't happened at all that I'm aware of.
I spend most of my drinking time with a lot of the gay community here and I'd have certainly heard about it.
I've never come across anything other the thankfully rare bunch of morons who have to get drunk before they even say anything, let alone resort to physical violence.

Ah you mean the ones who are so insecure in themselves so they take it out on others?
Sad, sad people.

 

This is interesting. I take it you live in the UK?

I hear all this horror-show propaganda about the "gay agenda" and how they indoctrinate kids in order to recruit them and all this BS.
I as well noticed pretty much the opposite when I was in school. It wasn't acceptable, it wasn't pervasive, it wasn't the "in" thing, despite what I hear conservative Christian figureheads saying about the descent into Sodom that we're experiencing in the USA.

Like I said earlier:

The violent attitude some people have towards homosexuality is disturbing, and as you noted, it is predominantly restricted to younger males. And further, male-male homosexuality bears the brunt of the hostility, while female-female homosexuality and it's overall acceptance in our society is epitomized publicly in the "Girls Gone Wild" commercials and infomercials, and to a lesser extent, privately, in pornography of all types.

I think (perhaps "think" is too weak of a term in this case!) one of the major contributors to this phenomenon is masculinity itself, masculine self-image, the pride and "honor" that it engenders and fosters, and the sometimes violent, suppressive/oppressive methods used to enforce many of the mostly unwritten rules of the masculine code. Of course, the masculine code varies between countries and cultures.

I almost hesitate to mention the study done on homophobia and homoerotic sexual response (degree of penile tumescence/erection) at the University of Georgia.

Links here and here

Interesting to note that the degree of erection regarded as "significant" in those self-described heterosexuals who were rated as non-homophobic was 24%, indicating a fair degree of sexual arousal at viewing homosexual pornography. The heterosexuals who were deemed homophobic, however, had "significant" or "definite" erectile response at a rate of 54%.

The conclusion of the researcher in the study was that homophobia is often the result of one's own repressed homosexual tendencies, and the revulsion one exhibits outwardly is a mirror of the revulsion one feels towards one's own homoerotic attractions.

This is basically my own conclusion as well.

One may criticize the finer points of this study, but it demonstrates without a doubt that men deemed homophobic have a more than two-fold increase in homoerotic sexual response when subjected to homoerotic imagery. Make of it what you will.

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That isn't to say that everyone that is offended or angered by homosexuality is necessarily secretly attracted to members of their own sex. I don't believe that, and I don't believe the study I cited shows that. What it does show is that among self-professing (an important distinction, overall) heterosexual men, there are a fair amount who exhibit sexual excitation due to viewing homosexual pornography, and that those who self-profess aversion at homosexuality have a much higher degree of excitement.

Even when adjusting for various unforeseen or undisclosed variables and factors, such as erotic response to sexual imagery in general (regardless of the orientation or gender of the persons involved), it is clear that homophobic men are aroused more often (2X in this study) by homoerotic material than non-homophobic men. The results of this study are very telling.

I am convinced that much of the hostility exhibited towards homosexuals, especially that hostility demonstrated by males, is really a defense of what is considered the masculine "ideal" and not only that, but moreover and more importantly, a defense of one's own place in the hierarchy delineated by that "ideal", perhaps the most important aspect of which is sexual appeal to and by members of the female gender, as well as possible sexual conquest i.e. getting laid early and often. This, and to a lesser extent, achievements in some sport or other contest of maleness (maleness usually being a feat of physical prowess) where a score is kept, are vitally important to many men, but especially those who are young and easily influenced. In short, they all want to make a name for themselves in the hall of fame, and after that, to keep their name there.

Challenges to this ranking or placement in the pecking order require one to prove oneself, if need be, over and over again. This would be especially prevalent in the case of a person who harbours homoerotic tendencies, but is determined to repress and publicly denounce them in order to prove, both internally and externally, that one is not that way. I have read personal testimonies of people who actively pursued sexual conquests with women in order to fill the void of inadequacy that is continually being renewed by an undesirable and/or threatening attraction to persons of the same gender.

Like I said earlier, not everyone who appears homophobic is harboring some repressed homosexual desires, and please don't misconstrue my views (or some might say, ramblings), but in the scheme of things, it appears that it certainly doesn't hurt.

Regardless of all that, where is Buddha1 when we need/want/wish him to be here???

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That may well be, but I also believe that at the opposite end of the spectrum, teenagers and older but still young males, are also far more likely to be expressing outright hostility towards homosexuality. By that I mean the kind that erupts into violence. It seems that the majority of the "philosophical" arguments and debates come mostly from the older crowd.

Maybe I'm wrong? :shrug:

 

Probably. How many people have philosophical debates about the nature of sexuality on a night out, or in similar social settings, where strangers are likely to be encountered? Possibly you're mixing with far too cultured and sophisticated a bunch of people. You should try to slum it more.

 

If by far too cultured and sophisticated a bunch of people you refer to me, myself, and I, then I regretfully must inform you that it is difficult to avoid these types. As for the rest of the people I know...

 

In my experience the hostile ones are actually outnumbered by those who've come out.

What? You don't where you go drinking?
Honestly it's a fairly regular occurence, maybe as much as monthly, where I live.
Get into a discussion, drag some complete stranger or two in for a different viewpoint, have another couple of pints... and here I was counting Scunny as being at "slum" end of social life rather than "cultured and sophisticated".
Should count my blessings maybe.

 

Is Scunny a person, place, or thing?

 

It's the arse end of the world.

I've no idea what that makes Luton.

(It's a place.)

 

Place, short for Scunthorpe.

That would be Withernsea.

At least Luton has an airport...

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One word: scary.

 

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What is?
The UK?

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There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. I tolerate believers. I don't accept their belief.
People should tolerate homosexuals, but they don't have to accept their lifestyle.
Do you have to tolerate and accept bigots? They aren't doing anything illegal?