America: the Melting Pot

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Fraggle Rocker, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. peta9 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,326
    Chatha,

    I DARE you to claim that their is no caucasian race. Remember, that recessive genes exist in everyone. Considering the three way pattern:

    African--caucasian--asian. I DARE YOU TO SAY AFRICANS BEGET CAUCASIANS AND CAUCASIANS BEGET ASIANS. Even though this is bullshit, they split into their own. If you split and change then you are no longer a part of that race.

    Your disgusting dishonesty is missing an important point. Still caucasians and asians SPLIT to form who they ARE. They even AMAZINGLY look nothing alike. Their culture is extremely dissimilar. Whites are not caucasians and vice versa and asians are not blacks. You refer to asians having features found in some africans, WELL, amazingly caucasians are next to africans from behavior to crime to sexual tendencies, criminal activity, brain size and on and on. It doesn't matter what traits they evolved that happen to resemble another, they are still asian.

    If an alien landed on this planet and had eyes, we cannot claim it is human just because.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    That is changing. And in many places it has changed. The teenagers out in the streets of shanghai who listen to hip hop, dress in the same designer clothes (and even know a lot of american and afro american slang) have similar cellphones, dreams, attitudes, problems, favorite films, manners of speech and body language as the white kids in Scarsdale or any other suburb in the USA.
     
  8. Renrue Someone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    219
    Chatha,

    How many posts must your reply to before you get around to mine? Even AFTER posting the link, your avoidance is still rampant. Perhaps I should restate my argument for the sake of refreshing your mind.

    Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MtDNA#Use_in_identification

    Human Migration determined by mtDNA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_migration

    Though I didn't restate it in my own words and am doing nothing by posting links, I believe wikipedia has a better way of explaining things than I can. The jist is that mtDNA is an easy way of linking groups of people together (whether through ancestry of one person to a group of people). By identifying the mtDNA of East Asians and Europeans, researchers manage to determine the ancestry of people and their migration from Africa.


    [Renrue]
     
  9. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    Sorry, I've been busy, but I read through your link. While I am not an avid biologists, it seems your link doesn't really say anything valuable in respect to this discussion, at least nothing new. Is it refering to Behavior, because behavior is a function of the enviroment, not the genes, which are themselves a function of the enviroment. Sociologists have long known that everybody has equal capacity for good and evil, given the right circumstance. Of cause people like peta9 will think behavior is something mysteriously unique to certain races, which is wrong. Plus you have to remember that people look at what others are doing, especially people similar to themselves. Crime, aggresiveness, intelligence, and culture are all functions of the enviroment. DNA's don't fall from the sky, they are a product of the enviroment and evolution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  10. peta9 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,326
    Now, I know you're reaching. Behavior a function of environment and not genes??? Environment affects behavior and is passed on through genes. That is how GENES are created.

    I'm not sure what your agenda is but your posts have been suspicious.

    Don't make me laugh, you are saying my cat would be a zebra if they switched places. And? But they are not the same and the point is the genes created that is important, not how.

    Come out and say that everyone is equal??? Yes, they are equal in potential. After all, there is evolution. But still that doesn't make two different products of nature the same just because hypothetically they could trade places. You are embarassing. That is why there is the diversity you see in nature.
     
  11. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    So a criminal is born not made? An agressive person is born not made? (laughs). You never stop amusing me with your antics. Listen, sociologists have long proven that behavior is 99% enviromental, you can never underestimate the power of memes and enviroment. Think about it, what affects your genes? the enviroment. Why are white people white and black people black? Its their genes, but its the enviroment that caused their genes to be so. Like I said, genes don't fall from the sky, they are a product of the the enviroment, which are geo-climatic factors, cultures, memes, e.t.c. Do you understand? And yes, I accept Asians as a race

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. peta9 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,326
    Now I know what your agenda is since you mentioned criminals. As for antics, anyone with a single brain cell knows you're the one projecting and starting with the antics by claiming asians are not a race. NOT only that but you are putting words in my mouth, pretending I don't acknowledge the factors and process of evolution when in fact I never doubted or denied it from the getgo. It's common for african americans(if you are) to feel inferior or try to cut down other cultures except whites because you are either intimidated by or a hybrid of them.

    It's obvious you don't understand biology or evolution except in the simplest terms. Your very existence is a contradiction of what the erroneous and cherry-picking bullshit you are preaching. If you want to get technical, then you should consider yourself equal to polio and measles since they are also a product of their environment but since they are harmful to you just like a criminal, society has taken care of that. You are also denying the human power of choice and will. You can't begrudge the ones who sought out different horizons and the gains they incurred.

    As for criminal behavior, there is more than one factor that contributes to it. If one decides to take advantage or give into a desire or weakness, they have to live with the consequences because they are nurturing it and if another decides otherwise, you can't claim their genetic reward or strength physically or mentally. There is only so much the environment can do, after that it is also your decisions and will that affect your direction. You are stupidly insinuating that life and the environment just hands you your individual character or traits minus the decisions and work personally involved. For instance, I can't consider myself physically equal to a marathon runner that has suffered and worked for his physical fitness, humans are capable of making a decision instead of being dictated to completely by physical instinct. If I'm satisfied with where I am, then I need to just shut up and not falsely bring the other down and claim equality. If I want to better myself, then I need to work for it or at it.

    A criminal is a label for someone who makes a decision to abuse it's power, cheat or take advantage and there are consequences. Any one of us are faced with this decision daily. These excuses of environment don't completely wash in the face of how life actually works. If there are traits that are negative, inferior or harmful it has to be addressed just as anything that is harmful. You can't accept them in ourselves or others otherwise we would never progress but regress. It's easy to cut down and wallow in our comfort zone but it takes work, patience, and sometimes self-denial to get anywhere. If my sister doesn't want to exercise to lose weight but wants an easy way out or a miracle pill and I make the conscious decision to get off my ass and exercise and suffer with aches and pains and garner my personal reward, she can't point fingers at me and say we're equal using deceptive and dishonest excuses such as "if I did that, I would also". Well, she didn't and for those with inferior traits that would pull down others instead of pulling themselves up shouldn't pass on those traits. Don't hate a better player, become what you want to be though it may take time.

    I'm not saying life is always fair or that their aren't obstacles. I've come from way behind myself and life wasn't fair to me but unlike my abusers who lived by bringing others down instead of changing themselves I decided to do that. There were times I couldn't help myself and life was extremely hard but I worked at it little by little, tried to have patience, cried sometimes until I could get to a place where I was in control and could help myself. There were people who tried to discourage me, mock me, demoralize me and even abuse me and obstacles of all kinds but I held onto my principles and tried the best I could without sacrificing what I believed to be right. I don't condone keeping others down but equally I don't condone pulling others down for the sake of their ego. We all know their are superior and inferior traits in all of us, we have to work on it daily. But yes, we are all equal in our possible potential with environment that will facilitate it and the conscious decisions we make to work for or at it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  13. Renrue Someone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    219
    Chatha,
    Those links mention NOTHING about behavior. It talks about Mitochondrial DNA. DNA! Nothing about sociology, purely genetics.

    Next time, just say you haven't even touched my links. There's no point in throwing in random argument when there was no case to be made for that certain point in the first place.


    [Renrue]
     
  14. WhisperBlade Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    25
    I'm just gonna say a few things.

    1. peta9; respects. You put up a good fight. I particularly enjoyed the article you posted in a previous post about the races.

    2. Renrue; HI! You owe me money.

    3. Mr Chatha, sometimes, I think you're pulling crap out of your supremacist ass. There are specific DNA's and genetic traits that differ between the primary races and anything in between. Pigmentation, muscle density and genetics, human structural genetics, are only a very small portion of that vast bank of differences. Though I'm not an expert in genetics, I won't try to be a racist, or discredit your very existence.

    Don't discredit a race just because you don't think so. Because scientifically, you are fighting a losing battle against the world's wealth of knowledge and scientific accomplishment. Dare you challenge the establishment of the pinnacle of human understanding of our world, you prove yourself a fool.

    I weep for you, Chatha.
     
  15. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    (pheew!) At times I think I am talking to 13 year olds on thsi forum. Of cause the link mentions nothing about behavior. I only brought that up because I forgot to mention that in my last post. What exactly is your point on Mitochondria DNA? Are you afraid to say something? Why don't you go ahead and tell us what you are trying to say?
     
  16. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    Okay now, I have had it. I was going to gently let this argument subside because I decided to stop trying to make a fool out of people like you. Now, let me clearly RESATE MY ARGUMENT FOR THE GAZILLIONTH TIME. My argument was that the genetics between whites and Asians are similar, which are in fact true. Then I argued that native Australians should also probaby deserve their own race, not being simply called "black", since they are in fact far more genetically distant from native Africans. So far I have not said anything that is wrong or ridiculus. If you are this quick to defend the Asians, then why don't you for once put your money where your mouth is by defending the native Australians? You see how stupid you look

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. Renrue Someone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    219
    Chatha,

    (Pheew!) You really are quite the dodger. Even after posting a wikipedia link and explaining it to a degree, what more do you want me to do? Implant data into your mind like the Matrix? I would like to say I'm talking to 13 year olds, but they at least learn things in school.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Read the link. Also, your posts are so horribly constructed that I don't know whether you're addressing me, peta9, or my link. This isn't an assault at you, but could you please make paragraphs so I know who or what you're talking to?


    [Renrue]
     
  18. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  19. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    But I have posted my own link about genetic distant. And it does say that whites and Asians do have closer genetics, as compared to Africans and Australians, which was my argument. Or do you want me to post the link again? What exactly are you driving at?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  20. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    Explaining what to a degree?
     
  21. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,867
    Why can't moderators filter out would-be users. I mean, some of these people can't even hold a constructive discussion without ridiculing themselves or veering into unecessary rants.
     
  22. Renrue Someone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    219
    Chatha,

    You're working on relative differences. So, if Africans shared a closer genetic relationship, would you go as far to say there is no such thing as race at all? Or would you change your argument to the nearest .0000001? By the way, you don't debate with someone by bringing up different evidences without deliberating and taking apart the other evidences first.

    And to the degree that I have spoken was in my former posts. Do you disagree with the way human migration occurred? Perhaps you'd like to write a paper that disputes the way researchers have determined with the help of mtDNA on the separating paths of Indo-European and East Asians. I don't disagree that Europeans and East Asians share a closer link, as the separation (according my link: Read, read, read) occurred much later than split from our African kin. Yet the varying mtDNA show the distinct separation between the two 'races.'

    So far I bet you really aren't disagreeing, but my evidence points that East Asians aren't just a "sub-race" of Europeans, as the split happened during the migration to the Middle East. Europeans have yet to enter Europe and do not have those multitudes of distinctions yet. But before they can develop such genetics, the half that didn't travel to Europe or India have already moved on into the region we know as East Asia. I don't have to accept there is or isn't race, it's irrelevant. However, you're going on and on without knowing all of the factors and coming to conclusions that appear blatantly wrong.

    I must concur with moderators filtering would-be, non-reading posters.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    However, I am less likely to become irrational and insulting, and I am more able to tolerate peoples' misunderstandings.

    However, it seems lately that my ability is rapidly fading.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    [Renrue]
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    This is certainly not what I have been told by my dozens or perhaps hundreds of Asian-American friends. They think the variety of physical appearance among Caucasians is simply riotous. One joked, "You white people must have terribly bad eyesight. You have to be that different from each other in order to be able to tell each other apart.
    As I noted in a previous post, the epicanthic eye fold is too ephemeral to be counted as an identifying trait of "Asians," however you define them. None of the aboriginal Americans, from the first two waves of migration in 14000BCE and 4000BCE, have them. I'm not sure about the Eskimo-Aleut people. That means that it arose less than 6,000 years ago and only in the Asians who stayed in Asia.
    These were not "the first explorers in East Africa." The various offshoots of Mesopotamian civilization, including Arabs, Hellenes and Phoenicians had been treating sub-Saharan Africans as a race of animals to be exploited for crafts and slave labor, since ancient times. As did the Egyptians, if I'm not mistaken. All of the "advanced" cultures meddled in black African politics, caused conflicts, and generally gave them little pushes in the wrong direction to keep them from developing their own civilization and becoming a force to reckon with. By the time the Arabs came to Africa to do the same thing, the conditions they observed there were the results of a fifty previous generations of outsiders flouting the Prime Directive.
    Well of course. The Arabs were already doing what the Europeans intended on doing: Keeping Africans from advancing toward civilization.
    Well duh. China had the good fortune to invent civilization without being sabotaged by meddlesome foreigners who didn't want the competition.
    You can thank a blatantly racist prosecution of the War on Drugs for that. Study after study reports that the rate of drug use in black American homes and communities is not statistically higher than among white people, yet black people are far more likely to be arrested, prosecuted, and imprisoned for it. It's so common as to be a cliche that when cops break up a noisy party in Lakewood and find drugs everywhere, they tell the partygoers go flush them down the toilet. When that happens in nearby Compton, they haul everybody off to jail. Some apologists say, "Yeah, but they're being busted for dealing." I say hmmm... in that case the arithmetic says they must be selling most of their drugs to white people.
    I don't know that much about the migration pattern of the Orientals, but the white people seem to have stayed in the lower latitudes for a very long time. The Middle East wasn't always a desert, and even so the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia were fertile enough for hunter-gatherers to prosper.
    Homo sapiens didn't even enter Europe until around 25000BCE, when he had had 45,000 years to develop in Asia. Why do you say that the Orientals developed in Arctic regions rather than China or Southeast Asia? The peoples who now populate the Arctic are latecomers: primarily the Eskimo-Aleut and their Siberian cousins, who nearly circle the globe from Greenland west to Russia's northwestern coast, but also including the Saami ("Lapps"). And they certainly have not developed any civilizations.
    Why do you refer to H. erectus? It was H. sapiens that started the diaspora after leaving Africa in 70000BCE.
    There are a lot of precocious 13-year olds on SciForums. The last time I saw the statistic, the average age of SciForums members was 16, although that was a couple of years ago. We need to remember that we are elders to these people.
    We're working on updating our policy. I think the consensus is that we don't want to become elitists because the unscientific mind will absorb some science after spending some time here. And we have to allow all these kids to simply be kids after all. My own opinion is that people who flout science, who refuse to abide by the scientific method, who sabotage scientific discussions, who post junk science and religion as science anywhere but in Free Thoughts, Religion, and Pseudoscience, should be treated harshly. But ranting and ridicule are just something you have to expect in a hall full of teenagers.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     

Share This Page