Singularity is gona get U all Humans !

Splitting hairs? Hardly - either it exists or it doesn't!

And it's something that WILL be rendered moot, eh? Sounds like clear admission that it doesn't exist yet (as I well know and so do you).

As to this "fear" you keep alluding to, I don't know that anyone really is afraid that "machines" will become the enemy - outside of of a few kooks running around.

 

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AI exists, in the same way as the concept "airplane" existed just before practical examples were produced. Even more profoundly than the airplane, AI is coming, and it's going to radically change the world.

 

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HA-HA-HA!!! You really got me laughing with that one!!

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Lots and lots of "concepts" exist and some never make it to reality.

At least now you've found enough courage to finally say "AI is coming" rather than your earlier claims that it already exists. In meanwhile ( a VERY long meanwhile!) let's just deal with reality, shall we?

 

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Frankenstein is Dumb

The computers are almost all either von Neumann machines or multiple von Neumann machines linked together.

These machines manipulate symbols in the form of bit combinations but understanding what the symbols mean is another matter. A computer chess program can beat a chess master because it is extremely fast at being stupid, but it doesn't care. It would play against itself ad infinitum with just as much lack of interest. Intel will soon put a billion transistors on a chip. When will it be able to tell whether it prefers chess or backgammon?

psik

 

If you closely examine the underlying basic operations of our nuerons, you can similarly lose sight of the larger perception of intelligence. Today's "AI" software exploits randomizers such as "fuzzy logic" and nueral-modelled networking in order to achieve higher functions along the progression to reason as we perceive it.

There is no evidence for assuming such development is halting, or reaching a limit. On the contrary, there is ample evidence and precedent to strongly suggest that there will be an accelerating occurance of quantum leaps in the development of AI even beyond the intelligence levels of present-day humans.

 

Glad you accepted my definition of "programming.” I certainly agree humans are programmed. I even identified the two most important programmers of humans in my last post (#17).

But the point of our exchange is still being ignored by you. I have, in posts 11 & 17 stated that there exist machines that perform tasks that have never been programmed, giving four or five examples of their commercial use and noting that in their limit field, they are often better at the task than humans, yet not one instruction has ever been given them. Like humans, dogs, amoebas, etc. these connection machines (more often called neural networks, but I do not like that term as I have done brain surgery, know something about neurons, etc.) are created with some initial "hardwiring" that does permit them to learn from their mistakes, BUT NEVER ARE THEY PROGRAMMMED !!!!!!

You continue to deny this and state with no arguement that all machines are programmed! - All I can conclude from this is that you can not think or even discuss, only able to follow your program.

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Are you a Von Neumann machine?

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Heh! No, Billy, I'm no machine.

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But I still must take you to task of your claims of any machine "never being programmed." Even hard-wiring, as you refer to is clearly a form of programming. But even beyond that, without programming a computer is just a useless hunk of silicon and metal.

I hope that you'll note that out of everyone participating in the thread you are the only one insisting that programming isn't necessary for the applications you're talking about or any other application, for that matter. Of course, that's not direct evidence of anything but I'd certainly like to see something a bit more solid than just your word. Absolutely no offense intended but I honestly believe someone somewhere had led you down a garden path.

Can you provide ANY evidence/links that discuss such existing applications?

 

Is there a computer program that can consistently recognize pictures of animals as well as a ten year old?

I heard about this in 1992.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc#OpenCyc

Started in 1984!!!

How much better has hardware gotten since then?

Words are nothing but symbols and definitions are just collections of more symbols. How can the computer connect the symbols to reality?

psik

 

"out of everyone participating in the thread you are the only one insisting that programming isn't necessary for the applications you're talking about"

No he's not. I am also aware of spontaneous-order processing, neural nets and machine-learning that is already actively employed in advanced intelligence, financial, and medical applications- Operations routinely take place now that are not initiated by programmers.

"Can you provide ANY evidence/links that discuss such existing applications?"

Come over here and play.

 

Resistance is futile and neither will u be assimilated

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Guess whos feeding our evolution ? :bagpuss:

The Urban Challenge

 

Give up HypeWaders,

Humans have served their purpose in evolution, its better if they cant see their dooms day or else their end will not be smooth.

Our only worry now is the UFOs, ie. Did they beat us in their world or are they joining us.

 

Wow , i love this guy (i mean not in a woman2man way but as a specimen), seems like he cant even Click let alone READ ONLY

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h ttp://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/08/GeneticAlgorithms/default.aspx

 

Hello, a computer in question needs some programming to do anything but be a paper weight. Or did you think that circuit layouts, BIOS, DOS, and OS were just thrown together for the hell of it.

 

Nice try - but certainly NO cigar. I spent a full half-hour going over that site and all I ever found was a bunch of hopeful thinking. Nothing solid at all - sorry!

 

did you think that circuit layouts, BIOS, DOS, and OS were just thrown together for the hell of it.

No. I haven't meant to suggest that the creation of a machine that can behave spontaneously is in the case of AI an entirely spontaneous development process. Of course we must assemble the components, and do some programming at this stage. But autonomous AI learning is happening now.

"I spent a full half-hour going over that site and all I ever found was a bunch of hopeful thinking."

So you must be suggesting that research is not about hopeful thinking? I disagree. That link was just for the general timeline it offers concerning AI development. You are free to discover more than that. Google "AI research" and have at it!

 

Not even close!! Just some very fancy programming that can learn from it's mistakes to a very limited degree. Light-years away from being actually intelligent.

 

I just chatted with Alan, he is not bad.

 

Thats what americans used to think about Osama Bin Laden.

 

Sure - research is ALL about hopeful thinking. No argument there. I'm simply saying that neither that site or any of the other several dozen I've visited offer any solid evidence that IA is anywhere near happening. (Perhaps "wishful thinking" would have been more accurate.)