Man, the predator.(The Killer Ape Theory)

TimeTraveler · Apr 19, 2007

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Let's start with the basis for this arguement.

1. Man is a predator
2. Man preys on man and eats self.
3. The killer instinct is in our genes.

According to Killer Ape theory, which explains how war may have begun, and why man is violent, we have excerpts from Robert Ardrey, the founder of Killer Ape theory.
# Man is a predator whose natural instinct is to kill with a weapon. (316)

Excerpts from African Genesis (1961)

1. Man had emerged from the anthropoid background for one reason only: because he was a killer. Long ago, perhaps many millions of years ago, a line of killer apes branched off from the non- aggressive primate background. For reasons of environmental necessity, the line adopted the predatory way. For reasons of predatory necessity the line advanced. We learned to stand erect in the first place as a necessity of the hunting life. We learned to run in our pursuit of game across the yellowing African savannah. Our hands freed for the mauling and the hauling, we had no further use for a snout; and so it retreated. And lacking fighting teeth or claws, we took recourse by necessity to the weapon.

A rock, a stick, a heavy bone-to our ancestral killer ape it meant the margin of survival. But the use of the weapon meant new and multiplying demands on the nervous system for the co-ordination of muscle and touch and sight. And so at last came the enlarged brain; so at last came man. (29)

2. ...the predatory transition [from ape to man] and the weapons fixation explained for Raymond Dart man's bloody history, his eternal aggression, his irrational, self-destroying inexorable pursuit of death for death's sake. (31)

3. Three fundamental drives, for territory, for status and for organized society became evident in the primates, those creatures closest to ourselves. And behind all three looms the vague outline of a fourth force, deep-set, unaccountable, and perhaps unprovable: a mysterious need for order.... Food, sex, family, survival, property, sovereignty, rank, society-order, perhaps, itself- all or some must be reckoned as interplaying needs forming the personality and influencing the conduct of any animal that lives. (118)

4. Human behaviour in its broad patterns cannot with any assurance be attributed to causes lying within the human experience.

To conclude that human obsession with the acquisition of social status and material possessions is unrelated to the animal instincts for dominance and territory would be to press notions of special creation to the breaking point. To conclude that the loyalties or animosities of tribes or nations are other than the human expression of the profound territorial instinct would be to push reason over the cliff. (147)

5. The contemporary revolution in the natural sciences points inexorably to the proposition that man's soul is not unique. Man's nature, like his body, is the product of evolution. (153)

6. Any animal with a capacity for learning must in part be a product of his environment. Any animal with a capacity for hunger must in part be dominated by economic motives. But to believe that the fascination with war and weapons, or the imagined accomplishment of a perfect crime, or unyielding temptation to lord it over somebody or everlasting drives to acquire someone else's wealth; to believe that such as these find their source in human society and may be exorcised forever by environmental manipulation is to make of a man a most modest blackboard on which any other may write his name. (159)

7. ...that remarkable killer, Australopithecus africanus, the last animal before man...our last direct ancestor in the animal world.... Man is a predator with an instinct to kill and a genetic cultural affinity for the weapon. (166)

8. If the contest exists between individuals only, then qualities of mercy and altruism will contribute nothing to a competitor's fortune. But if the contest is between societies, then the member of a successful society must develop two sets of emotional responses: the many facets of friendship and co-operation reserved for members of his own society ["amity"], and the many facets of hostility and enmity for members of the opposing society. (169)

9. Human warfare comes about only when the defensive instinct of a determined territorial proprietor is challenged by the predatory compulsions of an equally determined territorial neighbour.

...the territorial drive brings about the conditions-not the motives- that give rise to war: the separation of men into groups, the alliance of men and territory, and the latent capacity for the enmity code to dominate the most civilized man in his relation to a hostile neighbour.

But it is the other side of the territorial coin that may provide the foundations for a philosophical revolution. It is the hidden, unread, animal cipher stamped on the metal of our nature that may resolve the dilemma of a [Herbert] Spencer, the doubts of a [Charles] Darwin, or the despairs of contemporary man. The command to love is as deeply buried in our nature as the command to hate. (173)

10. One recollected the ease with which Adolf Hitler had brought about in a generation of German youth his education for death. Had he in truth induced a learned response? Or had he simply released an instinct? Which was the genetic cultural affinity that like a desert river could vanish for season after season, then in a flick of a thunderstorm come ripping and raging out of the inscrutable earth? Was it man's adoration of books and bridges? Or his adoration of things that go bang? (203)

11. The human being in the most fundamental aspects of his soul and body is nature's last if temporary work on the subject of the armed predator. And human history must be read in these terms....

Weapons preceded man. Whether man is in fact a biological invention evolved to suit the purposes of the weapon must be a matter of future debate. (312)

12. Other forces of enormous power, all similarly derived from the animal world, play their instinctual roles in the drama of human conduct. We have investigated a few of them: the drive to acquire private property; social groupings based on the defense of a territory held in common; the commandment to gain and hold individual dominance within such a society; the contest between males for superior territory or superior status; sexual choice exercised by the female in terms of the male's acquistion of property or status; the hostility of territorial neighbours, whether individual or group; and the dual code of behaviour, prevailing in the members of a group, demanding amity for the social partner and enmity for individuals outside the territorial bond. All these are human instincts derived from ancient animal patterns. But to them must now be added those particular attributes of the hominid ["man-like"] line: the way of the predator, and the dependence upon weapons. (312-313)

13. Man is a predator whose natural instinct is to kill with a weapon. (316)

14. The primate has instincts demanding the maintenance and defense of territories; and attitude of perpetual hostility for the territorial neighbour; the formation of social bands as the principal means of survival for a physically vulnerable creature; an attitude of amity and loyalty for the social partner; and varying but universal systems of dominance to insure the efficiency of his social instrument and to promote the natural selection of the more fit from the less. Upon this deeply-buried, complex, primate instinctual bundle were added the necessities and the opportunities of the hunting life. (316)

15. The hunting primate was free. He was free of the forest prison; wherever game roamed the world was his. His hands were freed from the earth or the bough; erect carriage opened new and unguessed opportunities for manual answers to ancient quadruped problems. His daily life was free from the eternal munching; the capacity to digest high-calorie food meant a life more diverse than one endless meal-time. And his wits were freed. Behind him lay the forest orthodoxies. Ahead of him lay freedom of choice and invention as a new imperative if a revolutionary creature were to meet the unpredictable challenges of a revolutionary way of life. Freedom-as the human being means freedom-was the first gift of the predatory way. (317)

16. No man can regard the way of war as good. It has simply been our way. No man can evaluate the eternal contest of weapons as anything but the sheerest waste and the sheerest folly. It has been simply our only means of final arbitration. Any man can suggest reasonable alternatives to the judgement of arms. But we are not creatures of reason except in our own eyes.

...the superior weapon, throughout the history of the species, has been the central human dream...deprived of the dream, deprived of the dynamics, deprived of the contest [for superior weapons], and deprived of the issue [of a weapons' contest], Homo sapiens stands on a darkened threshold through which species rarely return. (325)

17. Society flatters itself in thinking that it has rejected the [juvenile] delinquent; the delinquent has rejected society. And in the shadowed byways of his world so consummately free, this ingenious, normal adolescent human creature has created a way of life in perfect image of his animal needs. (333)

18. We and our greater philosophers must grant, I believe, that the masters of a universal society [i.e., "One World" government] with the aid of a captive science might just possibly succeed in producing, over a long period, a lasting answer to the problem of our animal nature: a universal human slave inherently obedient to other people's reason. (338)

19. We are a transitional species, without doubt. We are a pioneer creature testing the potentialities of the enlarged brain. . . . And if we do not behave too badly, then we shall pass on the power of thought, one day, to a descendant species who may count it a part of their animal endowment. They, not we, can found kingdoms on its strength. (338)

20. And a horrid self-doubt may overcome us: of what use is mind, and civilization, if in the end our animal endowment must determine our radiant fate? But our instincts are not that simple. And intelligence can discover allies. (339)

21. I assert first the paradox that our predatory animal origin represents for mankind its last best hope . . . we were born of risen apes, not fallen angels, and the apes were armed killers besides. And so what shall we wonder at? Our murders and massacres and missiles, and our irreconcilable regiments? Or our treaties whatever they may be worth; our symphonies however seldom they may be played; our peaceful acres, however frequently they may be converted into battlefields; our dreams however rarely they may be accomplished. The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. (347-48)

22. My second assertion, flying farther into the speculative sky, is that civilization is a normal evolutionary development in our kind, and a product of natural selection.... It rests on the most ancient of animal laws, that commanding order [?], and acts as a necessary inhibition and sublimation of predatory energies that would otherwise long ago have destroyed our species.... Civilization is a compensatory consequence of our killing imperative; the one could not exist without the other. (348)

23. My third assertion, far less speculative, is that conscience as a guiding force in the human drama is one of such small reliability that it assumes very nearly the role of villain. Conscience has evolved directly from the amity-enmity complex of our primate past. But unlike civilization it has acted as no force to inhibit the predatory instinct. It has instead been the conqueror's chief ally. And if mankind survives the contemporary predicament, it will be in spite of, not because of, the parochial powers of our animal conscience. (349)

The limitation of conscience lies in its territorial nature.... Conscience organizes hatred as it organizes love. (349)

My conscience is totally amoral. I shall delude myself that it directs me to act in the interests of human good, and well it may. But with equal force it will direct me to act in the interests of human evil, if such evil is in the interests of my society. (350)

Society in its ancient wisdom does not appeal to my conscience through reason, for my conscience being of animal inheritance will respond with a minimum of force. And so conscience in human society becomes an essentially anti-rational power. (351)

24. Far antedating the predatory urge in our animal nature, far more deeply buried than conscience or territory or society lies that shadowy, mysterious, undefinable command of the kind, the instinct for order. And so, when a predatory species came rapidly to evolve its inherent talent for disorder, natural selection favoured as a factor in human survival the equally rapid evolvement of that sublimating, inhibiting, super-territorial, institution which we call loosely, civilization.

It is a jerry-built structure, and a more unattractive edifice could scarcely be imagined. Its greyness is appalling. Its walls are cracked and eggshell thin. Its foundations are shallow, its antiquity slight. No bands boom, no flags fly, no glamorous symbols invoke our nostalgic hearts. Yet however humiliating the path may be, man beset by anarchy, banditry, chaos and extinction must at last resort turn to that chamber of horrors, human enlightenment. For he has nowhere else to turn. (352- 53)
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http://www.users.muohio.edu/erlichrd/vms_site/afric.htm.

According to the basis of this theory, man is a hunter. Sometime in the past, before modern civ, this hunting instinct was useful, as these stone cold killers were considered hero's. They killed the food! Now however that we don't kill our food anymore, and buy food in the supermarket, it does not mean we have lost the killer instinct.

Now, my personal opinion is, this would actually slow down evolution and be harmful to a species if it eats itself much in the same way it would harm your body if your body started eating itself. However, in the past there were not as many people, there were maybe only groups of families, and these families likely killed anything they saw, human or not, because they could not talk or communicate. This means another human would be just as much of a threat as any other wild animal. In this context, the theory makes more sense.

Is this theory plausable? Are we really just Killer Apes? What is the likelyhood, if we are Killer Apes, with the natural instinct to kill with a weapon, that we will kill ourselves with a weapon as a species?

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pinkiss · Apr 20, 2007

In my oppinion youre the only one who might be left of the killer gorilas around here.and second youre post is meaningles and too long to read :bugeye:

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Baron Max · Apr 20, 2007

I basically agree with the idea. And all you have to do is imagine what the world would be like if we didn't have laws and rules and police to enforce those laws and rules. Look at how rioters act when they think there's no laws or police to find them. Look at how people acted during Katrina floods in New Orleans. Look at how the present day terrorists act ...whenever they don't get what they want, they kill some people ...apparently without any concern or compassion. Look at how people act in heavy traffic jams or heavy rush-hour traffic.

Sure, it's all around us if we just look. Take away all the rules and laws, what do you think this place would be like? ...LOL!

Baron Max

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EmptyForceOfChi · Apr 20, 2007

pinkiss said: ↑

In my oppinion youre the only one who might be left of the killer gorilas around here.and second youre post is meaningles and too long to read :bugeye:
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i guess you dont read many long books then.

plus how did you come to the conclusion that it was meaningless if it was too long for you to read?
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humans use weapons to kill because we dont have natural weapons like sharp claws or long teeth to make the kill. but we do have perfect hands for gripping weapons and perfect minds for crafting them.

peace.

EmptyForceOfChi · Apr 20, 2007

yeah and baron i have been saying this for years! i agree with you people only obide by laws because they will be punished wich is infact selfish, if we were given rewards for killing and assulting people how do you think we would act
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peace.

Bowser · Apr 20, 2007

We are entering the age of the Bonobos:

http://songweaver.com/info/bonobos.html

...sexual interactions occur more often among bonobos than among other primates. Despite the frequency of sex, the bonobo's rate of reproduction in the wild is about the same as that of the chimpanzee.
Click to expand...

redarmy11 · Apr 20, 2007

Is there any species which doesn't kill/maim other members of the same species?
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Of course we're supposed to be masters of our instincts and above this kind of thing, but still..

Baron Max · Apr 20, 2007

redarmy11 said: ↑

Is there any species which doesn't kill/maim other members of the same species?
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I don't think elephants do ordinarily. Any that try to harm others are driven from the herds.

redarmy11 said: ↑

Of course we're supposed to be masters of our instincts and above this kind of thing, but still..
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Masters of our instincts?? Surely you jest! How often do you and/or everyone else get angry as hell over some trivial little deal? How often is anger expressed right here at sciforums over a few words typed on a screen?

No, we're far, far, far from masters of our instincts. We're actually all being held in "prisons" ....and the little bars of that prison are the gazillion rules and laws that we have to follow or be arrested and punished. The threat of punishment is the only, ONLY thing that keeps us all from going for the jugular vein of others.

Baron Max

redarmy11 · Apr 20, 2007

Baron Max said: ↑

Masters of our instincts?? Surely you jest!
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Unlike other species, we're aware of our urges and do occasionally at least choose not to follow them. Laws are a relatively recent invention and we made it through 40,000 years without them. This is because, like dolphins, we are capable of this.

Bowser · Apr 20, 2007

That page was impossible to read... Whoops, had to give it more time to load...

redarmy11 · Apr 20, 2007

Yeah, got me too.

Baron Max · Apr 20, 2007

redarmy11 said: ↑

Laws are a relatively recent invention and we made it through 40,000 years without them.
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When the first two humans got together for a hunt, there were "laws". Just because they weren't written down is no sign that they didn't exist. No two humans could possibly interact, or live together, without a set of laws/rules/or whatever you want to call them.

Like dolphins? Geez, I consider dolphins to behave much, much better than humans, don't you??? How many World Wars have the dolphins fought in the last 10,000 years or so? How many school massacres have dolphins endured?

Baron Max

EmptyForceOfChi · Apr 20, 2007

i do agree with baron, without a doubt it is punishment that stops us killing each other, and alot of people that wouldent kill others probably wouldent because they are feable and not actualy capable of the act itself. survival of the fittest include fit of mind and of body, weak frail people would perish without these laws, they would have no protection, and the healthy strong people that are left would be fighting for dominant rule,

i garantee that if america was left lawless for 1 single year it would be in total chaos and carnage, people would be dead left right and center,

every store would be looted everybody would form gangs and tribes. people would be shooting each other over anything, hell people are shooting each other over nothing when there are laws, imagine if these laws didnt exist, everybody would be dead or dying or fighting.

peace.

EmptyForceOfChi · Apr 20, 2007

dolphins are like little schools of buddha and jesus clones compared to the human race, they are happy content and not very war like compared to us,

peace.

redarmy11 · Apr 20, 2007

Baron Max said: ↑

When the first two humans got together for a hunt, there were "laws". Just because they weren't written down is no sign that they didn't exist. No two humans could possibly interact, or live together, without a set of laws/rules/or whatever you want to call them.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is that humans will fight unless... they agree to co-operate instead? Not what I'd call an Earth-shattering revelation.

Like dolphins? Geez, I consider dolphins to behave much, much better than humans, don't you??? How many World Wars have the dolphins fought in the last 10,000 years or so? How many school massacres have dolphins endured?
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You don't remember the great Dolphin vs Shark Wars of 20,000,000 BC?
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S.A.M. · Apr 20, 2007

EmptyForceOfChi said: ↑

dolphins are like little schools of buddha and jesus clones compared to the human race, they are happy content and not very war like compared to us,

peace.
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The largest dolphin is also known as the killer whale!

Of six dolphin species commonly seen in Monterey Bay, only Pacific White-Sided Dolphin and Long-Beaked Common Dolphin have been attacked and killed by transients. These dolphins often travel in large groups of 100-2000+, and Killer Whales often quietly trail the group for awhile before choosing one that lags behind. Both species exhibited a strong flight response whenever Killer Whales were detected, therefore proving a difficult prey item to catch.
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http://www.gowhales.com/Features/KillerWhalePredation0210.htm

And besides some of them are armed and dangerous!

Armed dolphins, trained by the US military to shoot terrorists and pinpoint spies underwater, may be missing in the Gulf of Mexico.

Experts who have studied the US navy's cetacean training exercises claim the 36 mammals could be carrying 'toxic dart' guns. Divers and surfers risk attack, they claim, from a species considered to be among the planet's smartest. The US navy admits it has been training dolphins for military purposes, but has refused to confirm that any are missing.
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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1577753,00.html

redarmy11 · Apr 20, 2007

Aye, nasty little buggers when they wanna be, but also capable of acts of apparent altruism. What do you make of those? Too anthropomorphic for you?

EmptyForceOfChi · Apr 20, 2007

and the killer whale does not kill as much of its own killer whale specie as humans do,

or do they?

peace.

EmptyForceOfChi · Apr 20, 2007

anthropomorphic i dont know what that word means.

peace

S.A.M. · Apr 20, 2007

EmptyForceOfChi said: ↑

and the killer whale does not kill as much of its own killer whale specie as humans do,

or do they?

peace.
Click to expand...

Ey dunno. wy dyu tink dey koll et de keeler wale?

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