Did god grant men free will? Does god ever prevent men from exercising free will? Should god prevent men from exercising free will for his divine plan, or preventing murder, or stuff like that? Does he?
I don't think God "granted" free will, I think that the point of the story of Adam and Eve is that Eve grasped self-determination. I have written a bit about it, if you are interested in an elaboration. Why do you ask? What's your perspective?
Adam and Eve rebelled, as any of us probably would have, and God knew they would rebel, but let them, and that was against the will of God, so He does allow rebellion, but encourages people to change their minds. In the Old Testament, God caused the Pharoah's "heart to harden" to serve God's purposes, but Pharoah probably thought it was his own doing. I've heard many testimonies of people being miraculously saved from murder, missed shots at point blank range, jammed guns, unheard voices, etc.
I'm interested in an elaboration. I love hearing different p.o.v.s on this matter. I think free will would have to be defined more specifically to answer that question. We have free will to make decisions but we don't have free will to wish ourselves back from the dead. So in the true sense of the phrase, God did not grant us free will. If you remove all the sugarcoating, the only free will he gave us was the freedom to accept Jesus or burn for eternity in hell. According to the bible, Eve grasped self-determination only after persuasion from the serpent (satan).
I decided to post it Here, because I am looking for a more secular approach to the question, and the Comparative Religion subforum seems the appropriate place for that.
God knew, but let it happen anyway. So, then we could say that God is ultimately responsible for sin (and thus everything sin has caused so far). So shouldn't he take his ass to hell instead of unjustly sending any of us? Sounds like a god I want to follow. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Have you ever fired a gun at all? Apparently you don't know how easy it is to miss a target at point blank range. Nerves, adrenaline, bad aiming mechanics, among other things can cause this. It's harder to hit a target than you might think; especially if you're shaking from adrenaline. Lot's of guns have jammed before. My rifle jammed more than once in boot camp and in infantry school. Guns jam because they are a man made invention and are thus, not perfect; subject to malfunction from time to time. Do cars ever fail to start, or suddenly stall when they're on the road?
It toook about a paragraph and a half of reading to realize that you are asking the same questions I've pondered for about three years now. Good piece. Good luck in getting a rational explanation to that though. I'll be watching around for responses to that as well.
One Raven, you say that the God of the Bible exists, so what do you think is His real message to mankind?
:roflmao: I thought about making a reference to that! "A miracle happened here today and I think you should fuckin' acknowledge it!"
Do I? I wonder where you got that. I don't think that the God of the Old Testament had a singular message for mankind. Perhaps I misunderstand the question. Are you talking about this story in particular and the meaning of the story? Please elaborate.
See what I mean, Raven? I wonder if you enjoy having your questions answered with questions as much as I do.
If not God, then who do you think 'dreamed up' the Bible, when and where do you say it was written, was it written in stages, or all at once?
When you say “The Bible” I assume you are referring to the Tanakh, correct? I can't say for certain who wrote it – as I wasn't there. My best guess is that it evolved over time from oral allegories, legends and other stories told by the ancient Hebrews, which, as these things do, evolved from earlier stories told by the Sumerians and other peoples, which, as reason dictates, evolved from earlier stories of nomadic tribes of Africans migrating from what is modern day Ethiopia. Why do you ask? I’m not sure why this is relevant to this thread. Please elaborate.
No, that's not the question at all. Many Christians say that Jesus was the physical manifestation of the God of the Old Testament on earth. I don't think he was. That does not imply that I think they are lying. Click, please
You say it doesn't mean what it says, and that it really has some hidden meaning which has been somehow lost through the years, but you can't say when it was written, when it was supposedly changed, nor what it was like before it was changed, so what are you left with?
Some of the books of the Old Testament name their authors (e.g.. most of the prophetic books) while others are anonymous (e.g., the books of Samuel and Kings). Some books are compilations of many writers (e.g., Psalms, Proverbs) and other books name their author by a kind of "pen name" (e.g., the author of Ecclesiastes is identified as Qoheleth, "the preacher''). http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar35.htm
