Does anyone know of a fighting style that is intesnly difficult to learn but allows you to gain amazing reflexes and be able to dispatch just about anyone? Please no bullshit or karate or taekwan do or anything lie that i want some obscure really powerful fighting style that basically nobody has masterd. If you don't want to share it with other people I will prowide my e-mail address.

Thank you.

...i want some obscure really powerful fighting style that basically nobody has masterd.

If no one has mastered "it", then how are you going to learn it? ...from a fuckin' book??

Baron Max

Yes, there is something like that. Probably many forgotten arts. My friend is a Hapkido expert, and he told me about a style that his teacher learned from someone in Korea. It wasn't Hapkido, (which actually fits your description, too, but more well known) but something more obscure. My friend's teacher, Mr. Kim, was involved in some kind of feud with these guys, and ended up learning this technique from strange person in the mountains. The story was confusing, but I can try to ask my friend about it. I don't remember the name.

Gunfights on the Main Street at high noon is a pretty obscure fighting form ...and the style is pretty well forgotten, too. Perhaps that's what he's thinkin' of?

Baron Max

Mac-10 style? (http://www.traptown.com/pics/mac10.jpg)

Streetsweeper style? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/strickland/Drew/StreetSweeper.jpg)

This is a dumb thread to be posted in Human Science, but I'll answer anyway.

This style doesn't exactly match all your criteria, but your criteria, as has been pointed out, is dumb.

Aikido.
If you want something that kicks ass.
Then learn aikido.
If you want to kick ass and make someone look like a bitch.
Aikido's the way to go.

Aikido is about pressure points and submission holds.
I saw a video once of this little old Japanese man. He must have been like 4 feet tall. And OLD. The whole video was comprised of him being attacked over and over by students and each of them were dealt with quickly, easily, and efficiently.

Yes. They were all coming at him just right. Arms out in just the right positions. Plus, a large part of training in martial arts of this type (judo as well as others) consist of learning how to take a fall. How to roll. Etc... Otherwise you'd quickly have your arms dislocated and other painful injuries. So, this must be taken into consideration when watching people 'kick ass' in such scenarios.

However, by mastering Aikido, you learn so many different methods that it covers almost all possibilities. Mastering it, of course, consists of going past thinking about it and imprinting it into muscle memory.

In a way, your criteria of 'basically nobody has mastered' is true of any style. There is no such thing as true mastery. I don't think so, anyway. You can always get that much better. That much more instinctual.


Interesting link between muscle memory and the eastern philosophy of denial of self.
A master of a martial art is not thinking. He is not master. He is not even really involved. It's his body that acts without his will needing to push it.

There can be no complete removal of self from the equation (short of mental illness) and thus there can be no complete mastery. Despite claims to the contrary.

Baron max i said bascally no one , not no one. I thank al of yoou.. More input would greatly be appreciated.

Does anyone know of a fighting style that is intesnly difficult to learn but allows you to gain amazing reflexes and be able to dispatch just about anyone? Please no bullshit or karate or taekwan do or anything lie that i want some obscure really powerful fighting style that basically nobody has masterd. If you don't want to share it with other people I will prowide my e-mail address.

Thank you.


Shaolin gong fu,

Taiji,

combined together, with years of dedication and hard work.

if you can master them.

Any reputable martial art is a starting point. There is no magic bullet. Martial skill begins with the first lesson and the lesson never ends. It takes many years, but improvement is ongoing, and a lot of satisfaction can be gained from steady progress. But at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself what it is you want to achieve from martial skills. The best outcome would be to achieve a decent level of skill, and then see how you fare on the tournament circuit. There are no free lunches in martial arts. And fights should stay in the dojo. What`s the point in taking on somebody with no fighting skill? Best of all is the urge to fight often evaporates as the skill level increases.

There is no magic bullet.

Not magical (http://members.tripod.com/ammo3/ammo/images/9mml.jpg), but they'll do.

My favorite fighting style is an old and tested one.
No training required…it comes naturally.

I scream like a little girl, scratch and slap aimlessly at the other and then turn and run.

If that doesn’t work, try soiling yourself while you make weird gurgling noises with your throat and then crying uncontrollably.

Or another old school ace is to kick the fucker as hard as you can in the nether regions, then run like a bat outta hell!! Works for me, every-single-time!!!!:)

There can be no complete removal of self from the equation (short of mental illness) and thus there can be no complete mastery. Despite claims to the contrary.

interesting. expand please

That's right, there is no magic technique. You would have to be an accomplished martial artist to begin with to even learn some of these obscure methods, and the only use of them is against other martial artists against whom regular fighting styles don't work.

Or another old school ace is to kick the fucker as hard as you can in the nether regions, then run like a bat outta hell!! Works for me, every-single-time!!!!:)


thats a shaolin move,

shaolin gong fu has the hardest training methods to follow, its not about anything fancy, its about speed, power, inner strength, outer strength, and training your mind,

alot of stretching all day
various animal fighting forms
tiger
snake
crane
leopard
dragon (plus litterally hundreds more family variations)
standard forms of shaolin, ie lohan quan/chuan etc
shaolin wieght training, various types (suo shi/ shi sui)
hard qigong, soft qigong
hours of stance holding
lots of sparring
many shaolin drill training (simular to CT but more intense with a twist)
alot of mental training ie candle or water training, punching out candles, and slapping water with your palms to gain mental strength on cold mornings,
iron fist
iron sand palm
gold palm
iron neck
iron skull
iron chest
iron teeth/jaw
1 finger zen
2 finger zen
northern and southern methods,
mountain climbing (every morning before breakfast, the monks must run up a mountain then crawl back down on hands and feet)
mountain running, (every day the monks must run around the mountains with heavy weapons, before weapons training)
shaolin pole training, (high elevated poles for balencing and sparring on).
various weapons training, dao swords dragon spears, boar spears, bo staffs, chains, throwing blades, many weapons i dont even know the correct names for,
water balencing training, (tie legs to a high beam, balence one bucket ont he beam, and have one bucket on the floor, get water fromt he botom in a little cup pull yourself up, and transfer water into bucket on beam untill bucket empty)
horse stance (fundemental stance of shaolin i would say personally, perform horse stance on shaolin poles, with bowls of water on your head outstretched hands, and knees, spike underneath your ass so dont fall, then hold horse riding stance for aslong as you can)



thats just a little summary off the top of my head, of some of the shaolin training methods, i will post more if people want info,


peace,

http://www.kungfulibrary.com/about-72-shaolin-arts.htm


i havent fully checked out this site, but from what ive read so far, it is accurate,

scroll down to the bottom and it has an index, then click on desired infomation, for those who want to learn a little more about shaolin gong fu,



72 shaolin movements/strikes, (of one section of standard shaolin)

1 Mo zhang - the grinding palm

2 Feng zhang - the windy palm

3 Liuxin zhang - the rocket palm

4 Chuanso zhang - the shuttle palm

5 Tui shan zxang - the palm pushing a mountain

6 Pi chai zhang - the palm cutting wood

7 Chen zhuan zhang - the palm breaking bricks

8 Jin zhusa zhang - the palm with iron grasp

9 Jin gou shou - the iron hook-like arm

10 Wa yan shou - the hand tearing out eyes

11 Tanglang shou - the leg of an Mantodea

12 Bai she xin shou - the hand as accurate as a spittle of the white snake

13 Hei hou tiao shou - the black tiger jumps over a mountain

14 Heihu zhua lian shou - the claws of the black tiger grasping the face

15 She mao shou - the hand like a snake-shaped blade

16 Bai xin shou - the hand of eight wizards

17 Zhin cha zhi - the finger like a gold pin

18 Zhou zhi - the bamboo finger, the finger like a bamboo stick

19 Wu kua hongqian zhi - five fingers like red flower pistil

20 Zhin gong zuan zhi - the piercing finger as hard as a diamond

21 Cuan xin zhi - the finger piercing the heart

22 Tou gu zhi - the finger punching holes in bones

23 Yi zhi jin - the finger as hard as metal

24 Chan si zhou - the elbow with a cord wound on it

25 Go xin zhou - the elbow punching the heart

26 Po yin zhou - the elbow breaking Yin

27 Niu chan tui - the dislocated thigh

28 Pe zhu gan - a bamboo fighting pole

29 Gu shu pan gen - twisted roots of a dry tree

30 Te wu gen di - the iron buffalo ploughs soil

31 Fei mai qiao - the leg flying like a feather

32 Hei xian feng - the black water-spout

33 Tie sazou - the iron broom

34 Hou tiao qian - the monkey jumping over a wall

35 Yian qu shui - the swallow drinks water

36 Chang e bian yue - Sorceress Chan E ascends the moon

37 Tian gou chi yang - the Heaven's Dog eats the Sun

38 Ha mo zu tian - the toad drills the sky

39 Gang jin juan - the diamond fist

40 Shi kai hua - the stone blossoms out like a flower

41 Zuan xin chui - the hammer punching the heart

42 Lu kai hua - the skull blooming out like a flower

43 Duan mu zhuang - to break a wooden stove-couch

44 Ti jie shi - to break a stone with a leg

45 Fang feng Zhen - Zhen releases winds

46 Da shai dai - to strike at a sand bag

47 Fen mu guan - the coffin broken into pieces

48 Dai tie wa - to wear iron hoops

49 Diao shaku - to hang trousers with sand

50 Yue ying jian - to jump over a moon abyss

51 Feng xuan ai - the flight from a steep precipice

52 Go wu ji - to jump over a roof gable

53 Zuo liu xing - the rocket stance

54 Taishan zhuan - the pole like the Taishan mountain

55 Xin yi ba - the heart and mind clench

56 Qi wei chuan dong - the bristling hedgehog strikes a hole

57 Suang to yue - to embrace the moon

58 Tie gan tui - the leg like an iron pole

59 Kao re guo - the cauldron heated on fire

60 Zuai ti deng - to throw down a stool by a foot

61 Lu da gun - the ass's strike

62 Zhai she zu - the foot digging soil

63 Guang chuan tie bu shan - to put on an iron shirt on the naked body

64 Wu kong fan jin dou - Wu Kong fights against sinew dislocations

65 Tian bing xia fan - the Celestial Soldier descends the sky

66 Da murien - to strike a man of wood

67 Xie zi zou lu - the scorpion crawls along the road

68 Qian jintui - the leg weighing one thousand jins

69 Zha yan huan zuo deng - to change in an instant the stool

70 Luohan shen gong - Luohan's magic feat

71 Jiao long nu kong - the coiling dragon growls in wrath

72 Qi guan qi mao - the breath "chi" washes the hair on the skin



peace,

I hear that there is one technique that is guaranteed to beat any enemy.

Legends says that any man who masters the sacred 'quarter circle forward' technique is near invulnerable.

http://www.freewebs.com/solidsnakecnd77/ryu-hadoken11.gif

I hear that there is one technique that is guaranteed to beat any enemy.

Legends says that any man who masters the sacred 'quarter circle forward' technique is near invulnerable.

http://www.freewebs.com/solidsnakecnd77/ryu-hadoken11.gif



who told you of this technique?


who is your master?


peace.

Domesticated Om,

I challenge your mastery of the quarter circle forward with my own.

http://www.freewebs.com/solidsnakecnd77/ken-hadoken1.gif

Muaha!!

Ah. The old days of streetfighter. Good God, I used to kick some major ass at that game. The hours and hours and hours spent fighting.

I think the multiple combos of Killer Instinct (the first one) was a huge advancement in fighting games. Man. I could get on a real roll with those.

And what about Drunken Style Fighting from Sega Saturn's Virtua Fighter? I could kick some ass with that old drunken bastard.

Heh.
Fighting games are so boring these days.

http://www.shaolintempleuk.org/stuk/index.html


this is where i study shaolin gong fu,


and invert,

play dragonball Z budokai series there fast, me my wife and friends always play those fighting games when we play playstation, but the old games have best gameplay i admit,


peace,

http://www.shaolintempleuk.org/stuk/index.html


this is where i study shaolin gong fu,




hahahahahahahahaha

Shaolin fools.

Wing Chung is the only form worth study. No wonder you have such a unrealistic grasp of fighting!

What you going to do, use the Buddha finger, or Flute style? Or trip over your stupid boots!

you are not a true warrior,

no real man fights with his words aggressivly like that, your insults to shaolin are dissrespectfull, you have much to learn in the true ways, i sense you have little control over emotion, discipline, attention, patience, senseless remarks aimed towards true men of honor and great skill,

you are speaking as if you hold some kind of power over shaolin, i am shaolin you are not worthy of the title, or any other honorable stature,

respect,
discipline,
good attitude,
acceptance,
courtesy,
self control,


you do not posess the true attributes of a martial artist, take this as a lesson, and dont think to continue dissrespecting shaolin and expecting me to be aggressive bac and diss your style of combat, i dissrespect no combat style because the style dosent make the man, i train in many styles they all have good concepts and training methods, just some are for ring bouts, and some are for real battle, war and street defence, like systema, shaolin, military styles, muay thai,

i also study in wing chun and jeet kun do, i do not dissrespect them they do not dissrespect shaolin, but you do so you are not true wing chun student, (even if you are high ranking belt it does not matter, grandmaster of wing chun respects shaolin, where do you think wing chun came from man?, want a hint or do you want to research it yourself?,

and about wing chun and shaolin, where do you think wing chun comes from?, it is a southern style that originates from shaolin itself, :)

so wing chun is a branch of shaolin, you show your true depths of chinese martial arts there man,

here do some homework grasshopper, i found this for you.

http://www.sdtaichi.com/wingchunhistory.html


peace.

I disrespect you because you are a simpleton. A naive, gullible fool.

I have challenged you dodge a bullet in a thread below, where you claim to be able to do so.

It's put up or shut up time kid.

I disrespect you because you are a simpleton. A naive, gullible fool.

I have challenged you dodge a bullet in a thread below, where you claim to be able to do so.

It's put up or shut up time kid.


haha you mean where i said im not human and i can dodge bullets?, you actualy took that as anything but a joke?.

you said shaolin is garbage basicaly and wing chun is better, but wing chun came from shaolin how do you explain this little problem?.

and i will not continue arguing about martial arts with you, you are not worth my expertise and are an amature sir.

anyone who just read your last posts will be able to tell who is the inexperienced one in this matter, and who is bieng immature,

good day grasshopper,


peace,

The ancient art of Hollywood Wire-F00 (TM).

...what other martial art teaches you how to kick a man through a wall or jump thirty feet straight up? :p

NOTE: anyone who takes this post seriously should be decapitated with a rubber band.

The ancient art of Hollywood Wire-F00 (TM).

...what other martial art teaches you how to kick a man through a wall or jump thirty feet straight up? :p

NOTE: anyone who takes this post seriously should be decapitated with a rubber band.


what are you talking about?.


peace.

Yer, what ARE you talking about????

Breakdance fighting. How to fight when you're really, really good looking.

Yer, what ARE you talking about????

...you know, wire-fu. Like in the Matrix. :p

Breakdance fighting. How to fight when you're really, really good looking.

LOL! Like that Simpsons episode, when Moe is taking a class in breakdance fighting. Hehehe.. you all know the one I mean.

Muay Thai? Now there's a deadly little bugger. But as was previously stated: it's not the style, but the one who practices it. The scariest fighter I know is based in shotokan karate. I know people who have taken Muay Thai and Shaolin and countless other styles, but they're nothing when compared to this guy. If they fought him, they would lose.

*Note: this is just out of the people I personally know.

Watch some UFC or pride fighting and you'll see what "styles" of fighting are the ones to know.

Watch some UFC or pride fighting and you'll see what "styles" of fighting are the ones to know.


nah,

UFC is a sport, you can see wich style is "better" with "rules" and boundaries, but that dosent show the effectiveness of the overall style in a realistic self defence scenario that would occur on the streets with no rules ref and gloves,


UFC favours grappling styles, as strikers cannot hit the groin eyes or throat, they cannot escape the grapplers hold as easy as they could without rules and gloves, it hinders certain styles, because some fighting styles like shaolin muay thai, systema are all military fighting styles for real battle situations, so obviously you cannot fight to your full extent, but a style like BJJ wrestling or boxing can be used well int he ring as its not for actual battle,


peace.

Well, I understand the limits in Pride and UFC. It's the closest thing to "fighting for your life" that one can view. I'd still say it's a good indicator of what fighting styles are most adequate in a real life situation. Just remember there’s no rules when you’re getting ground and pounded in the real world ;).

Best fighting is without style or pattern. Bruce Lee had no style. Jeet Kune Do is not a style.

Fighting styles are like religions. If you follow patterns you become close-minded and limited.

UFC favours grappling styles, as strikers cannot hit the groin eyes or throat, they cannot escape the grapplers hold as easy as they could without rules and gloves...
Exactly! I get so tired of hearing people talk about what styles are the most effective in UFC and other sport-fighting competions. The reason why grapplers do so well in UFC is that when a fighter in UFC is being tackled and put into some kind of submission hold, they can't just strike him in the spine with their elbow, drive a finger into the guy's eye socket, or do any of the other things that a desperate person would happily resort to in a real life-and-death situation. Take a look at the list of things you aren't allowed to do in UFC:

Fouls

1. Butting with the head.

2. Eye gouging of any kind.

3. Biting.

4. Hair pulling.

5. Fish hooking.

6. Groin attacks of any kind.

7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.

8. Small joint manipulation.

9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.

10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.

11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.

12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.

13. Grabbing the clavicle.

14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.

15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.

16. Stomping a grounded opponent.

17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.


No small joint manipulation or striking to the throat? You just ruled out about half of the Japanese martial arts with those two rules alone, and probably a lot of other styles that I don't really know about.

Exactly! I get so tired of hearing people talk about what styles are the most effective in UFC and other sport-fighting competions. The reason why grapplers do so well in UFC is that when a fighter in UFC is being tackled and put into some kind of submission hold, they can't just strike him in the spine with their elbow, drive a finger into the guy's eye socket, or do any of the other things that a desperate person would happily resort to in a real life-and-death situation. Take a look at the list of things you aren't allowed to do in UFC:

Fouls

1. Butting with the head.

2. Eye gouging of any kind.

3. Biting.

4. Hair pulling.

5. Fish hooking.

6. Groin attacks of any kind.

7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.

8. Small joint manipulation.

9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.

10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.

11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.

12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.

13. Grabbing the clavicle.

14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.

15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.

16. Stomping a grounded opponent.

17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.


No small joint manipulation or striking to the throat? You just ruled out about half of the Japanese martial arts with those two rules alone, and probably a lot of other styles that I don't really know about.

all of the japanese fighting styles come from china if you trace them back, as did all of the japanese weapons including shuriken, calltrops, even the famous katana samurai blade has its roots in china, it comes from the dachi/tachi blade wich was larger, but they did change and become there own art as a whole, i started ninpo a little while ago im finding it interesting,

all 17 of those attacks are taught within shaolin gong fu, thats exactly what i mean about hindering a true military fighting art, its a sport to test regulated stamina strength and endurance, not for realistic combat situations, if it was effective then the military would use the UFC as a tool to test hand to hand combat training,


but that is not the case, if you would look up military fighting styles for hand to hand combat training, you will find they favour chinese and eastern fighting styles, they had to scrap the old WW training that was based upon ruthless chinese and other eastern killign methods, now they have a watered down system that still implies some of the methods and attacks, but also now has a new passive twist, with ways to not seriously harm an opponent but still take them down and hold captive, before the style was more "take no prisoners, show no mercy" but its changed now to becme more civil dealing with civilians and ther things like that riots etc,



peace,

hahahahahahahahaha

Shaolin fools.

Wing Chung is the only form worth study. No wonder you have such a unrealistic grasp of fighting!

What you going to do, use the Buddha finger, or Flute style? Or trip over your stupid boots!
As far as I know Wing Chun was derived from Shaolin Kung Fu (Southern styles).

Ah. I see it's been said already. Very well, continue... :)

Exactly! I get so tired of hearing people talk about what styles are the most effective in UFC and other sport-fighting competions.

The point most people miss about UFC, is that is a real fight, fought by well trained martial artists, who know those techniques, but have the discipline not to use them in the octagon.

Out on the street, you have a guy who has trained hard, and fought hard, and who might just stamp on your throat.

That guy, has expressed his martial arts training to the full. I really doubt you guys have delivered many full force elbow strikes to the spine, and while you are thinking 'I may now use those deadly techniques', it's too late, because you're thinking, and not fighting.

Maybe you feel secure, because you think you will always come up against someone untrained in a street fight, and have an edge. These guys choose to fight people they know are well trained.

So it's a matter of psychology. UFC guys dare to be tested.

As far as I know Wing Chun was derived from Shaolin Kung Fu (Southern styles).

Ah. I see it's been said already. Very well, continue... :)

Yep, and why, do you think it was developed?

Because Shaolin Kung Fu has too much baggage? Because real people have jobs, have to earn a living, and can't devote their entire life to learning self defense? It's not much use then, is it?

And considering China got well and truly stomped on by a certain barbarian, it seems pretty frikking useless on the battlefield, even if you do supposedly have temples full of skilled exponents at your disposal.

The point most people miss about UFC, is that is a real fight, fought by well trained martial artists, who know those techniques, but have the discipline not to use them in the octagon.

Out on the street, you have a guy who has trained hard, and fought hard, and who might just stamp on your throat.

That guy, has expressed his martial arts training to the full. I really doubt you guys have delivered many full force elbow strikes to the spine, and while you are thinking 'I may now use those deadly techniques', it's too late, because you're thinking, and not fighting.

Maybe you feel secure, because you think you will always come up against someone untrained in a street fight, and have an edge. These guys choose to fight people they know are well trained.

So it's a matter of psychology. UFC guys dare to be tested.
I'm well aware that the competitors in UFC are very tough, well-trained martial artists. My point is that the rules for UFC effectively disqualify many perfectly good fighting styles, so it's not fair to look to UFC to see which styles are most effective.

Nasor, I think theres one thing you could try taht isnt on that list- press beneath the nose, where it joins the rest of the skull, just above your top lip. That forces their head back, because its a bit painful.

Meanwhile, I am learning how to use swords. More fun, and deadly in a different manner.

There is no great style only great students and teachers. If you wanna become a great fighter, perhaps the best, then train for it and become what you want. I trained in GOJU USA and I laugh at people who say my style beats your style. If you have true fighting spirit you'll be great. Remeber your style is only the vehicle that may take you where you're WILLing to go. If I were you I'd look for a style that first off interests you and secondly is well rounded. I'd also do a little personal research. I would find out if the teacher of the style you're interested in taking is willing to train you all the way through. If your teacher is planning on leaving next fall ya might want to find that out before ya waste time starting in their class. As I said before I trained in GOJU USA but I didn't limit myself to just that style I've learned aikido and some wushu. Hell I may even look into this shaolin stuff a certain member keeps touting but when the sheen wears thin and it will for this kid he'll understand that shaolin is just another vehicle for a great student. If he's a great student he'll become great..PERIOD..

Just don't study any style that awards you a belt for showing up enough times. Actually, don't study any styles that award intermediate belts. They only exist to provide ego boosts to people, and have little to do with their abilities.

Dim Mak has some very useful information in it, however, if you were to just study Dim Mak, and not train your body for many years, then all the information about chi and pressure points will be useless. Trying to hit an area the size of a dime in the right direction depending on the right time of day, etc, etc, in the midst of a violent confrontation....as has been said - there is no magic bullet.
Work hard and learn all that you can. From now until the day you die.

As far as EmptyForceOfChi, he is very happy to evangelize Shaolin, but so am I, so I won't fault him for his exuberance.
If you are interested in trying Shaolin, and you go to a Shaolin school where you pay $50 a month to learn "traditional" forms, you will be disappointed. If you are, however, lucky enough to live near a Shaolin temple, where the monks are not allowed to take money for training, you will find a very different mentality - one which may just be worth more than any martial art.

God is teaching me a dragon art of fighting. It's like the Passion of Christ when he was beaten by this guys. Don't do anything just hold, say nothing and stay still :confused: Just like in the movie Soldier, be a thing.