http://www.searchmyvideo.com/tag/chembuster/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoU29g9Vapc


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgonite


peace.

James Randi does not allow anything orgone related or cloudbusting related into his million dollar challenge...what a joke...

thats stupid, will he only allow martial artists and there own bodies to enter or something?




peace.

thats stupid, will he only allow martial artists and there own bodies to enter or something?




peace.

I don't know but its quite strange why he won't allow cloudbusting...almost as if he knows it works and doesn't want to give up the million dollars ever....

It says it here in the Challenge application:
"IMPORTANT: Only claims that can be verified by evidence under proper observing conditions will be accepted. Also, JREF will NOT accept claims of the existence of deities or demons/angels, the validity of exorcism, religious claims, cloudbusting, causing the Sun to rise or the stars to move, etc. JREF will also NOT test claims that are likely to cause injury of any sort, such as those involving the withholding of air, food or water, or the use of illicit materials, drugs, or dangerous devices" - http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html

It is quite obvious to anyone that cloudbusting can easily be tested, measured, and objectively observed....take for instance cloudbusting causing rain in deserts (locations where it never rains)....

yeah either he thinks it works and doesent want to fork out the money, or he thinks cloud busting means "moving clouds" and he thinks you will say "there i moved a cloud qi energy exists"

peace.

What is the explanation as to how this cloud busting device works?
If it is proposed that it gives out some sort of energy, can it be measured in the lab.
Are the crystals (tuned) in any way?

What is the explanation as to how this cloud busting device works?
If it is proposed that it gives out some sort of energy, can it be measured in the lab.
Are the crystals (tuned) in any way?

http://www.metatech.org/cloudbuster_&_orgone_generator.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudbuster

Maybe when a scientific explanation as why this works is available people will take it seriously, encapsulated swarf filled plastic buckets with a few haphazardly placed cystals bunged in create a dark force, rock on Yoda :D

The first link doesn't even explain contrail correctly, so how "scientific" is it? How much basis for explanation if the whole concept is predicated on a flawed idea?
The second link points out that other clouds in the sky also were "busted" despite not being the subject of the experiment.
So to prove that cloudbusting works you would have to prove that the cloud wasn't going to go away on its own - i.e. that the busting was done solely by the experimenter.
It's as bad as me saying that me thinking about it causes the sun to rise. Because I do think about it and the sun does rise...
I suspect that cloudbusting and orgone are not accepted by Randi because it's been so thoroughly debunked it's the equivalent of submitting perpetual motion machine ideas to the patent office. Total non-starter.

The first link doesn't even explain contrail correctly, so how "scientific" is it? How much basis for explanation if the whole concept is predicated on a flawed idea?
The second link points out that other clouds in the sky also were "busted" despite not being the subject of the experiment.
So to prove that cloudbusting works you would have to prove that the cloud wasn't going to go away on its own - i.e. that the busting was done solely by the experimenter.
It's as bad as me saying that me thinking about it causes the sun to rise. Because I do think about it and the sun does rise...
I suspect that cloudbusting and orgone are not accepted by Randi because it's been so thoroughly debunked it's the equivalent of submitting perpetual motion machine ideas to the patent office. Total non-starter.

But cloudbusting causes rain also.....you can cause it to rain in deserts and other areas where it never rains.......is that evidence of it working or is it just a simple highly unlikely coincidence?

That's the problem. To verify it as real you have to eliminate the possibility of coincidence.
Either prove it wouldn't have happened without the cloudbusting (very hard to do) or perform the operation so many times it's indisputable.

But cloudbusting causes rain also.....you can cause it to rain in deserts and other areas where it never rains.......is that evidence of it working or is it just a simple highly unlikely coincidence?

You have to perform these experiments under scientifically controlled conditions, if the apparatus works above some pure chance statistic,
then is the time to take it seriously.

You have to perform these experiments under scientifically controlled conditions, if the apparatus works above some pure chance statistic,
then is the time to take it seriously.

Ok so what would be these controlled conditions?

it is not proven fact that the cloudbuster, chembuster or HHG devices actualy do what they are supposed to do. i myself have done experiments in a very small scale, i wanted to use cloudbusters on a large level but they might be dangerous so i didnt go forward with it, i am waiting for other people to do the dirty work first,

i have made various HHG devices though, and to be totaly honest they seem to work, but proving it i have found nearly impossible, the effects to me can be detected by a human, but not by a machine to test.


alot more research needs to be done on this whole subject, it would be great if some serious modern scientists would take it serious enough to conduct more testing to find answers, i would like that to happen, i think many people are driven away from the idea because of einstein, he was way to quick to dismiss orgone studies something was not right about the way he handled it. it wa slike he had an answer and was not even willing to take into consideration the results of the plants.

peace.

Ok so what would be these controlled conditions?

One would be repeated tests with all known weather conditions log ed with
the generator, and again with a placebo, tests would have to show significantly better results with the generator.

good results have come from the rate at wich plants grow, they seem to grow much faster within an orgone chamber, or with special crystals within the soil,


peace

good results have come from the rate at wich plants grow, they seem to grow much faster within an orgone chamber, or with special crystals within the soil,


peace

You use the word (seem) that is not a scientific term (statistic) is, for crying out loud, some people believe talking to plants (seems) to make them grow better.
So can we agree not to use the word (seem) and use statistics, it is far less ambiguous :D

if it would make you happy sure,

plants grow faster in orgone chambers.

http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/2000_conference.html

peace.

quote.

In 1973, while still in high school, Joseph Heckman built his first orgone accumulator and performed a number of simple experiments exposing seeds and plants to orgone energy. Now a professional agronomist with a Ph.D., he has been experimenting with the accumulator with increasing sophistication for many years. Dr. Heckman reported to the Conference on the results of a number of his experiments and on his preliminary interpretation of the data.

Heckman has investigated the response of plants to orgone exposure and explored the potential application of orgone energy to agronomic and horticultural crop production. He said he prefers working with seeds because they’re easy to handle, and he favors single harvest plants.

In 1976, he exposed tomato seeds to orgone energy and found that the irradiated seeds produced a greater number of fruits and flowers than did the control group of seeds. Heckman went on to conduct further experiments in 1981, 1983, 1985, and 1986. In 1981, the exposed seeds produced fewer but larger potatoes. In 1983, using a five-fold accumulator, he achieved a 50% increase in yield from seeds exposed to orgone energy for one hour. However to his surprise, he discovered that seeds irradiated for 10 hours produced only a 23% increase in yield.

In a number of early experiments, the vines of the plants seemed to be strongly affected by seed exposure to orgone energy. They lived longer on average, and some never died. In 1986, orgone irradiation led to a reduced yield from treated seeds. Heckman wondered if an Oranur effect from the Chernobyl disaster that year may have played a role in these results.

At the time of the Conference, Dr. Heckman was working on a double-blind plant study in which he did not know which seeds were irradiated and which were the control group. According to Heckman, there are few very double-blind studies conducted with plants. However, he believes that when orgone energy is involved, double-blind protocols are more valuable than other types of studies.

As he became a more experienced agronomist over the years, Heckman began to try many different approaches and to work with a variety of plant materials. He also started keeping more comprehensive records, including data on weather conditions, temperature, light, humidity, gas exchange, water supply, and other significant factors could help him better understand his results and interpret the data. In addition, he kept information on orgone treatment variables such as the type of materials used in the accumulator; the season and time of exposure; the amount of exposure to sunlight; whether irradiation was continuous or at intervals; the stage of the lunar cycle; and the life cycle of the organism.

Although he achieved mixed results in his studies, Dr. Heckman maintained that the orgone accumulator may have a number of promising applications in agriculture:

charging seeds before planting
treating seedlings prior to transplanting
irradiating cuttings for reproduction
healing graft wounds
charging irrigation water
charging potting soil
increasing the longevity of stored seeds
post harvest seed storage
He noted that while environmental conditions were crucial for plant growth, more research into the use of orgone accumulators in agriculture could lead to valuable results.

Grier Sellers, who works with Dr. Heckman, reported briefly on a 1987 study of tomato plants in which 60 seeds were charged in an orgone accumulator over a 14-day period. Seeds were treated in a variety of experimental set-ups with combinations of orgone irradiation, orgone water, and DOR-buster exposure. However, the results achieved were not statistically significant. Mr. Sellers suggested that the seeds may have received too high of an orgone charge. He said that in three new experiments, preliminary evaluation indicates that two tests show statistically significant results.

Wednesday Evening – July 19
Experiment XX

Reich’s Experiment XX involved the organization of plasmatic matter from mass-free orgone energy. In The Cancer Biopathy he wrote, “We had discovered a process by which orgone energy existing freely in water, i.e. not bound up in bionous matter, can organize itself into plasmatic, living substance exhibiting all the criteria of life”.

Experiment XX was an advance on past bion research and represented new and compelling proof of the life-specific nature of orgone energy. Among the seven general conclusions that Reich reached are two that would startle and challenge those who today are studying the origin of life:

matter develops from concentrated, mass free energy
the development of living plasma on earth preceded the organization of coal substance and carbohydrates
Reich hypothesized that biochemical molecules did not exist before plasmatic substance. Rather, they were one of the mechanical constituents in the process of plasmatic organization.

Dr. Grad delivered a fascinating, enlivening talk on his exploration of Experiment XX after Reich’s death. (Justice cannot be done in this brief summary to the profound and complex matters he discussed) As a young scientist he had repeated Experiment XX and, at first, obtained the same microscopic forms that Reich did. But then he began to see other forms with central areas that looked much like nuclei. He also saw “budding” forms and cell structures under the microscope, some of which were cleaving in two. Later, when he repeated the experiment, Grad found no forms at all. However, he continued with the work despite his failures.

With continued experimentation using bion water in conjunction with ammonia and carbon dioxide, Grad discovered granules which grew into bions, and then into what he called primordial forms. He considered these structures lifelike, but not alive. They were on the path to life.

At first Grad didn’t understand Reich’s insight that Experiment XX had revealed living forms. However, he later realized that these forms were the beginning of life. Some of the slides that Grad showed demonstrated how much his forms resembled the most ancient fossils of life, including the fossils discovered on a meteorite from Mars. He felt that the reactions in his experiments take us to the place where biology and chemistry meet. In addition, Grad said he has become convinced that the Life Energy itself gave an orderly manner to the basic structures he observed.

In his text, and in the slides he showed, Dr. Grad touched on many intricate issues of biology and chemistry that deal with the origin of life billions of years ago, and the ceaseless ongoing process of the creation of life today. For anyone approaching the study of Experiment XX, Grad advised, “You have to adopt a soft approach. With a hard approach, you will kill it.” In his view, Reich was successful with Experiment XX and with his other scientific work because “Reich was a natural, and so he could follow natural processes.”

if it would make you happy sure,

plants grow faster in orgone chambers.

http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/2000_conference.html

peace.

NO, NO, Any evidence you give should be from a reputed, and passed by fellow scientists source.
The web would drown with all this tosh if it was not filtered by reasonable
people.
Try the experiment but substitute the crystals with carrots, what is the result?

NO, NO, Any evidence you give should be from a reputed, and passed by fellow scientists source.
The web would drown with all this tosh if it was not filtered by reasonable
people.
Try the experiment but substitute the crystals with carrots, what is the result?

what the hell,? want to tell me how they are not respectable scientists? now wilhelm reich is a woo-woo ?


peace.

One would be repeated tests with all known weather conditions log ed with
the generator, and again with a placebo, tests would have to show significantly better results with the generator.
So basically the weather conditions being a nearly 0% chance of precipitation (before), placebo meaning it has to be double-blind test (one fake generator another real), and then just do repeated tests that show the same results, right?

NO, NO, Any evidence you give should be from a reputed, and passed by fellow scientists source.
The web would drown with all this tosh if it was not filtered by reasonable
people.
Try the experiment but substitute the crystals with carrots, what is the result?
So if did some research at my university would it become reputable? Also reputation has really nothing to do with science or the truth....you are using an ad verecundiam logical fallacy....

reich was more qualified than you are in scientific fields of study, your acting like he was some kind of nut. he was a qualified M.D holder in psychiatrist psychoanalyst a qualified biologist, and one of sigmund freuds most promising students.


peace.

if it would make you happy sure,

plants grow faster in orgone chambers.

http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/2000_conference.html

peace.
I have a feeling that in the presence of orgone generators and HHGs that bacteria will reproduce a LOT faster also....this should be tested...plants grower faster...there is an amplification of attitudes...the air changes...water molecules also change....

reich was more qualified than you are in scientific fields of study, your acting like he was some kind of nut. he was a qualified M.D holder in psychiatrist psychoanalyst a qualified biologist, and one of sigmund freuds most promising students.


peace.
Yeah its interesting he use to be considered to have the status of any other scientist until he failed to show up in court...then the FDA banned and burned his books (wtf?) thats just wrong....

Yeah its interesting he use to be considered to have the status of any other scientist until he failed to show up in court...then the FDA banned and burned his books (wtf?) thats just wrong....

i know the book burning was way over the top and extream, it was like a witch hunt.

peace.

If a paper gets to the arxives it has to have been peer reviewed, it is a kind of filter to sieve out the crap, peer review means that other fellow scientists
agree that your theory is testable.

If you want to by pass this body no one will take you seriously, even if you are right.