I'm atheist. I don't believe in Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism etc etc or any of it. I don't believe in any supernatural being or force.
However, it has been my policy to try and respect everyone's views. Unless you're an absolute dumbass who can't entertain an idea within your mind without getting an emotional feeling (whether + or -), it is possible to disagree and make valid arguments without causing bitter feelings. Such intelligent discussion, in my opinion, made sciforums appeal to me in the first place.

But recently, some n00bs seem to be ruining that atmosphere with negative, closeminded, and scornful attitudes. They are discussing under the assumption that their views are superior to any others and they're merely there to scold or enlighten. It's quite sad, really.

If you are atheist, I implore you to stop the bullshit and come back to old school decent atheism. You're giving us all a bad name. And that never helped, did it? If we all discussed without that stupid n00b attitude there would be significantly less antiatheist hatred nowadays.

If you are religious, I also implore you to stop the bullshit. Being closeminded never makes you or your religion better in others' eyes. And if you are unable to not become heatedly emotional during religious discussions, I'd say you need more mental maturation to do before coming back to sciforums.

Now I will wait for your responses (or abuse), if any.



_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

Zero,

Yes. Excellent, I agree completely.

I’d advise both sides to follow one simple rule.

Feel free to attack the argument as strongly as you feel appropriate, but don’t attack the person. There is a clear distinction.

Calling someone a stupid (a)theist, and all the possible variations, adds nothing to a debate and only creates bad feelings which then tend to escalate.

Any argument can be fully courteous and at the same time seriously attack the opponent’s position.

If someone is posting stupid remarks then don’t sink to their level by replying in kind but instead step up to an even more polite level and attempt to point out their mistakes as pleasantly as possible without being condescending. If you do a good job and they are intelligent then perhaps they might admit their error. However, if you throw abuse and profanity at them then they have no incentive to back down, and the result is deadlock and a waste of time.

Life without conflict is like watching good porn without jerking off.

There's a difference between being an asshole and being belligerant. Regardless of what Oprah might say, arguing with someone doesn't make you a bad person. Nor does scorning an idiot.

Better life in fire than life reading "Chicken Soup for the Soul" while watching "Love Story" and cuddling with your 27 year old virgin girlfriend.

Xev,

So why is it ever necessary to be beligerant or to ever scorn anyone?

Why is it necessary to have sex when one can jerk off?
Why is it necessary to have steak when you can nuke a tv dinner?
Why is it necessary to drink Sonoma red when you can ferment grape juice?
Hell, why shower more than once every other day? With deoderent, you can go for at least a week, I bet.

Answer:
Cause it's fun!

OK but when other people are involved is it still fun to cause them distress?

Depends on my mood.

Originally posted by Xev
Depends on my mood.

It's all about you right? Self-glorification? ;)

I've noticed the same thing Zero, there is a lot of Ethnosentric (I love that word) comments flying around

That is why I have stopped posting, I've started talking to my incredibly dense friend instead....you remember Peter Griffin, right?

Edit: Typo :bugeye:

Chosen,

It's all about you right? Self-glorification? That is true of everyone. No one does anything unless they see a benefit to themselves.

Even an alleged altruist chooses that path because they achieve pleasure from such apparent self-sacrificial actions.

I obtain pleasure from being less belligerent or offensive when others increase their attacks on me.

I pass no judgment on Xev, we simply operate differently. Your comment however, sounds definitely judgmental. I assume you obtain pleasure from judging people.

Originally posted by Cris

That is true of everyone. No one does anything unless they see a benefit to themselves.

Even an alleged altruist chooses that path because they achieve pleasure from such apparent self-sacrificial actions.

I must disagree, Cris. I've done things I knew would cause me only problems, and they did, but I did them anyway because it was in line with my standards. I got only negative results, but did it anyway.

Chosen:
It's all about you right? Self-glorification?

Yes it is.
ME. MY values. I protect others because I want to. MY Will.

And in the end, that's how every human think. You think Mother Theresa was after anything but an ego trip?

Think again.

Cris:
Thank you. I may someday cease to enjoy belligerence, (I am, after all, THAT age).
If and when I do, it will be because I want to.

Adam:

Pleasure need not be "attractive women flinging themselves at you". Pleasure can be from the power one gains when one refuses to back down, or the self-satisfaction, or even the ability to say smug, self rightous things on internet message boards.

Adam,

I've done things I knew would cause me only problems, and they did, but I did them anyway because it was in line with my standards. I got only negative results, but did it anyway.If there was no benefit then you wouldn’t do it.

Here you explain you took the action because you wanted to maintain a standard. The pleasure comes from maintaining a standard; in this case a sense of pride.

I do not believe there is any instance of a true altruist action; there is always a gain or benefit of some type. If there weren’t then you would simply not take the action.

wtf!? I'm glad ONE person agrees with me but is this it? The discussion is degenerating into a mass harassment of my sweetheart Xevums...

*scowls and crouches protectively in front of Xev*

She's mine!!! :D

_________________________________________
There is no god, afterlife or divine love. There is only Entropy, the mother from which we were all born. She tugs our souls with the beautiful, maternal love of chaos. Why do you keep Her waiting?

-central philosophy of Zero, Sage of Chaos

Well, I agree less name calling and childlike antics are a good idea. We have to call someone out when they do it. I don't think it has been too bad lately, maybe I haven't been in the right threads...

Wha!! Oh yeah, Xev can defend herself!!

*sits at the sideline as usual*

Originally posted by Cris
Adam,

If there was no benefit then you wouldn’t do it.

Here you explain you took the action because you wanted to maintain a standard. The pleasure comes from maintaining a standard; in this case a sense of pride.

I do not believe there is any instance of a true altruist action; there is always a gain or benefit of some type. If there weren’t then you would simply not take the action.
I didn't do it for pride either. I did it because I have no right to expect other people to maintain such standards if I don't do it myself. A simple philosophy which I stick to, which does not necessarily boost my ego or give me rewards. The reward is not pride, but hope that eventually other people might feel the same way.

Originally posted by Xev
Life without conflict is like watching good porn without jerking off.
How would you know? Being a ... grrl... and all... :confused:

Adam,

…but hope that eventually other people might feel the same way.And you want them to feel that way because…..?

If others feel the same way as you then your comfort level will increase and you will ultimately benefit.

If you state a reason for an action then that indicates you want something to occur. I.e. satisfying a desire, perhaps directly or indirectly.

Ultimately you still expect a personal benefit.

Originally posted by Cris

And you want them to feel that way because…..?

The human race will do better in the long run with everyone getting along together, rather than constantly bickering and being greedy monkeys. Many people have no concern whatsoever for the human race as a whole, for its future; such people are monkeys. Some of us actually like to think about such things though. But merely thinking about it achieves nothing. And I have no right to bitch about how pathetic other people are if I am the same. So I actually try to stick to my standards; that gives me the right to bitch about the monkey people, and poke them, and hopefully point them toward a more productive future.

White Knight:

'Round hereabouts, masturbation is referred to as "jerking off" whether you're a boy or a girl.
It's really the same motion, stroke and pull, whatever your gender is. Only there's less pulling if you're female.

Adam:
So I actually try to stick to my standards; that gives me the right to bitch about the monkey people, and poke them, and hopefully point them toward a more productive future.

And thus, you are not acting out of purely altruistic motives, because you get a kick out of "poking the monkey people"

Really, the only difference between what you do and what I do is that I don't hide what I enjoy. I LIKE intellectual sadism and I'm not afraid to admit it.

You like intellectual sadism but you hide it under "I want to point people to a more productive whatever".

Cris:

I generally try not to AOL post, but I agree with you. Ultimately, we act for personal benefit.

And why is this a bad thing?

Originally posted by Xev

And thus, you are not acting out of purely altruistic motives, because you get a kick out of "poking the monkey people"

Really, the only difference between what you do and what I do is that I don't hide what I enjoy. I LIKE intellectual sadism and I'm not afraid to admit it.

You like intellectual sadism but you hide it under "I want to point people to a more productive whatever".

No, I don't poke people because I get a "kick" out of it. I hope to point them toward more socially-beneficial behaviour.

I gain a little pleasure from poking idiots. I would, however, gain much pleasure if an idiot started thinking and became more than a monkey. So far it doesn't happen a lot, yet I continue doing it.

Some of us, believe it or not, don't act purely out of greed.

Adam:
No, I don't poke people because I get a "kick" out of it. I hope to point them toward more socially-beneficial behaviour.

Uh huh. Same here. ;)

I gain a little pleasure from poking idiots.

Thank you.

I would, however, gain much pleasure if an idiot started thinking and became more than a monkey. So far it doesn't happen a lot, yet I continue doing it.

That's nice. Shall I bring you your crown of thorns now?

Some of us, believe it or not, don't act purely out of greed.

Where did I say that we did?

Face it Adam, you act as you do because it feeds your ego trip. I'd ask you to honestly consider this possibility, as you might start behaving civilly (as you would advocate) once you've gotten over it.

That would be the difference between the monkey people and the homo sapiens. The monkeys do things for the basic drives, food, sex, an ego-boost. Homo sapiens try for more than that. If you wish to remain a monkey, that's fine. But don't get envious and expect the homo sapiens to remain monkeys as well.

Adam:

I'd suggest you learn to, to use the trite phrase, "think outside the box". Humans are motivated by things much more complex than the will to fuck.

That said, your attempt at insult duly noted. I'm hurt. I'm crying my eyes out. I mean it, I'm really in pain. Please don't hurt me anymore, Mr. Adam. I'll be good now, blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

Now, where did I say we acted purely out of greed? Do you think you could try and answer my question?

Consider it more a challenge than an insult. A dare.

Consider this a dare:

Where did I say that we humans acted purely out of greed?

Sorry to break up this party boys and girls, but as the poster of this thread said elsewhere, ‘Do I care?’ Now, as atheists, having evolved through natural selection over billions of years from a mere protoplasmic, slimy ooze into the highly-intellectual, finely-tuned creatures that you currently are, this should be rather easy for you to fathom. So, follow along. God does not exist, right? Okay, if God does not exist, then the Bible is just a book, right? Now, if the Bible is just a book, then sin is just a myth. If there is no sin, there is no need for atonement (Jesus). If there is no need for atonement, then morality, and everything else, is relative. If everything is relative, then everything is subjective. If everything is subjective, then there are no absolutes. However, to say there are no absolutes is an absolute statement, and therefore, false, invalid and illogical.

This is called circular reasoning boys and girls, and this is the foundation for your beliefs. In summary, we can deduce that your beliefs are not only false and invalid, but more importantly, illogical. Now, being the supreme intellectual organisms that you are, I am sure that you were already aware of your fallacies. You were just testing us Christians, right? Regardless, you can still obtain salvation. It’s easy. Grace is a free gift from God for those who choose to have faith in Him. So tonight, ask Jesus to help you understand the Truth, as you are lying in bed waiting for sleep to come. Thank you for your time.

><>

Originally posted by inspector
Now, if the Bible is just a book, then sin is just a myth. If there is no sin, there is no need for atonement (Jesus). If there is no need for atonement, then morality, and everything else, is relative.

This is called circular reasoning boys and girls, and this is the foundation for your beliefs. In summary, we can deduce that your beliefs are not only false and invalid, but more importantly, illogical. Now, being the supreme intellectual organisms that you are, I am sure that you were already aware of your fallacies. You were just testing us Christians, right? Regardless, you can still obtain salvation. It’s easy. Grace is a free gift from God for those who choose to have faith in Him. So tonight, ask Jesus to help you understand the Truth, as you are lying in bed waiting for sleep to come. Thank you for your time.



Note, if we don't believe in Xtianity why should we believe that statement by Jesus? Seems to be the weak link in your chain here.

We, or rather I, never claim to be a superior intellectual organism. Aware of our fallacies? Is anyone perfect in their reasoning? It's all about testing what's wrong and continually questioning and evolving, which seems to be largely rejected by Chriatians. The whole "do not question" philosophy leaves very little possibility for improvemnt of the christian religion. You folks stay in the same spot and refuse to question the properties of what you believe in.

I appreciate your concern for our souls, but I'm afraid proselytizing will have to come when we're not forced into a defensive attitude by your posts.

I say, stop assuming that your viewpoint is superior to other people's. I repeat it a bizillion times yet some people lack the mental capacity to comprehend it.