Cris there's no point in wasting your short life on being here and killing others, don't even responed to this thread because I'm not even gonna read it.
Cris,
No it is not irrational, you are irrational.....and I think that you are a bit scared which you should be...who wouldn't be afraid of God?? And you have more to worry about than I, because unless you change your religious path you will be condemned to hell by God's will, and spend an eternity as the slave of Satan, for his pleasure to toture and tempt...he has already gotten a good grasp of you....and unless you want to share your awful fate with anyone else, i suggest that you shut up because no one else deserves to be condemned to HELL because of your irrational responses to life....if i were you and with all of that on my mind i don't know how you sleep at night...you are not God so don't try to be and you can't make those kind of decisions about others lives, and it's pretty sad because you are like 60 years old and soon to die, soon to be a slave in the hot fiery pits of hell, and i have tried to convince you, but i'm not going to waste my time, for life is very short, but an eternity is forever, if you could even stop and imagine that~but wait!! how can you prove that there is an eternity?? well you can't so i guess you don't believe in that either, yea good luck on your life and to all of you other Devil worshipers, because I am not wasting my time reading your stupid responses that are meaningless and false, but to the other Christians I pray that you stay with got until your last breathe and you shal be rewarded with eternal life and bliss in heaven with God the father almighty.
I hope you have a nice life because that's just about all you are gonna get~and incase you didn't get the point i'm not coming back to this site again, i'm going to live my life in Christ and praise him all my days...

Bye Bye Y'all
*~Ashley~*

by the way i'm only 15 years old and i have a better perception of life than you, which is pretty sad

Ashley,

I do hope you read this. You did great tonight. I am impressed. Please come back when you feel you are ready.

I sincerely hope you learnt something, if nothing more than there are people who may have very strong opposing arguments. If you want to debate in this arena then you will need to learn how to deal with people like me. And I'm not so bad, really.

Take care, stay cool and may your god go with you.

Cris

PS. And for the record I am 49.

by the way i'm only 15 years old and i have a better perception of life than you, which is pretty sad

Yes, very sad... sad to think that someday you yourself may propagate. That's a scary thought. :eek:

btw, sarah or ashley or spunks or whoever the hell your next multiple personality might be...

Don't let the 'virtual door' hit your ass on the way out. :D

Spunks,
It does say in the bible that you shouldn't judge people a.k.a. condem them to hell.......that's God's business.
Let Him do His own job
-JS

Ashley has had and has a strong brainwashing. Interesting who gave him those ideas. Local priest, his family.
I learned in christian school for 4 years[1-4grade] and had enough of logic and mind to analyse their ideology and say NO.
Ashley may be lost though. Do you think tht in your 15 years you have more knowledge thn Cris?! 15 years, it is nothing and you are easely manipulated at tht age too.[not everyone though]
Kid, you have no idea what life is like.
I am not much older thn you, but I have been close to death, so close I do not fear it anymore. But I'm not dumb and do anything to avoid it. I do not fear of burning lakes of fire, because there are not any. We create in what we beleive. Human mind has greater power thn you can immagine. [from my experience- one day it was extremely cold and I had not suitable clothing at tht place. I was freezing to death. Then I immagined that it was worm, immagined tht sunrays were touching my skin, remembered of really hot days I have had. You may not beleive me, but I felt no cold then as long as I kept that picture infront of me] It was only for some 20 minutes till I got to a house, but what if I had immagined tht picture all my life[lakes of fire for you].
What could I create.

"i'm not going to waste my time, for life is very short, but an eternity is forever"
and you have no idea how enternity might be boring. playing arf in your heaven and singing christmas corals with tony. that is hell kid. I live for life. And no god will scare me so much tht I turn away from it.


Grow up a bit, take a quick look back and then talk tht you have more knowledge of anything than Cris or anyone else. Grow up spiritually, have a wider look to this planet. Take a look at our history, learn from errors once made, do not repeat them. Do not fear unknown, explore it.
|Always make an escape route-nothing to do with topic, but it comes from my experience in all kinds of situations|
These are my suggestions, nothing more.
Good Luck!

Why did she become abusive at the end? Was it because of her obvious overwhelming indoctrination? She did not seem at all prepared to be hit with such diametrically opposite views to her own. Her final tantrums reeked of sheer frustration, and her primitive attempt at logic she had tried to use simply vanished in a childish outburst.

Or was it just inexperienced youth. But my youngest daughter is also 15 and I can’t imagine her becoming abusive like that.

Curious.

i don't know Cris. I think that because your beliefs sound completely idiotic to her. She is obviously quite niave to others beliefs and has been all her life. She knows those beliefs of her own, as being the only correct ones for everyone, so I think its the shock of that is what caused her outburst. (if you saw her in person, you would probably would have never expected that I know I didn't)

Well are'nt you a little ray of sunshine...

You belive the word of your God, you preach it , push it,
and "Declare" there is no other way.

Yet you abandon it to pass judgment and throw spite,and contempt whilst displaying a total lack of understanding and patience towards those who wont agree with your views.

Congratulation on showing others the way, the truth and the light.

Hmmm .... Are you sure your Christian?

Have a lovely sun shiney day...
and watch the virtual door (Q) spoke of.

Cheers
RazZ:p

Originally posted by Cris
Why did she become abusive at the end? Was it because of her obvious overwhelming indoctrination? She did not seem at all prepared to be hit with such diametrically opposite views to her own. Her final tantrums reeked of sheer frustration, and her primitive attempt at logic she had tried to use simply vanished in a childish outburst.

Or was it just inexperienced youth. But my youngest daughter is also 15 and I can’t imagine her becoming abusive like that.

Curious.

~~~

Wish I could say this was the first time I've ever seen a teenager behave this way, but not so. Meaning no disrespect, but the only thing that did suprise me was to learn that she was fifteen instead of thirteen. Methinks too many young people today have misinterpreted what it means to be: "All That"

Wonder what this tells us when we see children displaying this kind of desperate irrationality.

~~~

Counterbalance

counterbalance

That is just the tip of the iceberg of the irrational thinking I see constantly among my class and others; it really only gets worse.

I don't know what all that meant in your daysof highschool but now the definition of "all that" usually infers now, you're arrogant, disrespectful to others, and just plain self-centered. you would think that this would kick out someone to be a loner however people with no direction look up to them a) because they cause funny instances or b) they are hip and with the latest trends.

who wouldn't be afraid of God??

I have not had trouble. I am contented with most of my experiences so far. Perhaps you feel that you can intimidate feeble minded people. Few sucesses are too be had here.

to all of you other Devil worshipers

Blatant misrepresentation. Atheists are not devil worshipers.

killing others

Cris never stated that he killed others or had the intent to do so. You must be confused. Perhaps you are projecting your rage on Cris. Now we see the violence inherent in the system!:D

Just having a little fun. I am not a religious person but may I suggest trying meditation or prayer or whatever you prefer. There is documented evidence that these at least in some way are helpful at easing tension. I sometimes will set my mind upon a sort of cleansing. Just regulate your breathing patterns and remember the good experiences you have had on this planet. Allowing the rage to take hold will almost cerrtainly lead to an early death.

Cris is right we are often unforgiving. Do not mistake our passion for contempt, however.

Take a young person who knows in their heart there must be something more. Something to this life of ours than just getting up, breathing, and sleeping. Something more than just existing.
A young heart that longs for God and is open to love and serve Him. The church then indoctrinates them with fear, condemnation, and hypocracy...all the things that Jesus was NOT. Here is your result. Where there should be peace and comfort you have fear and intolerance. Where there should be love and mercy there is contempt and confusion.
Now you have a young heart led to and longing to have reverance and passion for God who has been bridled by mens false teachings and bound by their confusion and hate. In time the confusion and inability to understand why things are not as promised may make her love for God grow cold. She may well question Gods motives and even Gods existance. I pray that when she does....she realizes that it was not God that decieved her, but the churches..men, selfish, self-serving, ignorant, mortal men.

unfortunately I could not agree more.

cheers
RazZ:cool:

*Originally posted by Taken
She may well question Gods motives and even Gods existance.*

Like you?

*I pray that when she does....she realizes that it was not God that decieved her, but the churches..men, selfish, self-serving, ignorant, mortal men. *

Let's not forget pregnant women.

Not so sure what pregnant women have to do w/ it. Please explain.
-JS

Tony thinks tht pregnant women are selfish, self-serving, ignorant and mortal.

A guide walks through a museum pointing at Tony exhibited close by Middle Age inquisition bosses saying. And here is a fine example of a Midle Age thinking person. The world is flat, the God is allways right and pregnant women are worse than killers, devils, alien monsters.

well tony1,
just remember that if it wasn't for a pregnant woman, you wouldn't be here.
-JS

It isn't my pregnancy that bothers him, it is my hormones. LOL :D

Tony I never have cause to question Gods existance now that I have grown beyond trying to believe the sloppily packaged box of bull dung the churches are trying to pass off.
Here are people who supposedly believe God is omnipotent and unfathomable...and yet they preach fear of little demons and (hormones) and shun science as if they are afraid to be proven wrong. Turning a blind eye, screaming..."NO!, I don't want to see the truth...it might make me doubt!"
Well the devil is of no consequence to the God of Abraham, Isacc, and Jacob....and He certainly is real, so by what means shall He be disproved? None.
I do not fear, for I KNOW He is real. I say dig up the foundations of earth, explore the deepest reaches of the sea beds, journey to the furthest stars...He will be there too. You will find His signature and fingerprints on all of His wonderouse works...search them and let a heart who has yet to believe find comfort and faith in the evidence of His power.

. You will find His signature and fingerprints on all of His wonderouse works
I've yet to see one of these fingerprints :(

Yup I agree. Show us a fingerprint or even a wondrous work and I'm sure we'll be able to provide you with a more mundane and sensible explanation.

.. is what killing people have to do with this.

Cris! How many times have I had to tell you? No killing people at Sciforums! :rolleyes:

Or did I miss something obvious again? Did you confess to murder? At any rate, Taken has taken my primary point about this topic and stated it very well:A young heart that longs for God and is open to love and serve Him. The church then indoctrinates them with fear, condemnation, and hypocracy...all the things that Jesus was NOT. Here is your result. Where there should be peace and comfort you have fear and intolerance. Where there should be love and mercy there is contempt and confusion.I think that what disturbs me most is that after all of the words put out by the various spunks personas is that I still don't know exactly what the problem is. I see a lot of crap flying around, but the best I can follow it tells me that Cris is apparently a murderous devil-worshipper for the crime of (gasp!) answering a post. If spunks smuggled the child into a bar and the child stole sips from her drink, would she yell at the waitress?

I'm wondering if Tony1 has any hormone jokes queued up to aim at spunks.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

I can not show you God, as I have said before. Each of us must make our own Spiritual journey and no one can do it for us. What I can assure you of is that if you keep looking for Him you shall indeed find Him.

Believe me, I have looked, and so far all I've found is air. But as with all things, if you keep telling yourself he exists you will eventually believe it. Is that what you're getting at? Or am I missing something? :)

Much like the laws of gravity...God exists even before we are able to discover or define Him. His existance is in no way related to your belief in Him.
He said seek and ye shall find...if you haven't yet, that doesn't mean you won't.
I too found nothing but air....to discover later after God made His presence known to me that I had been looking for what I THOUGHT was God, what I was TOLD and TAUGHT God was and had therefore been overlooking Him the entire time.
The best advice I can give to anyone is the very advice Jesus gave us all.. Keep seeking, keep knocking, keep asking.

Never stop learning and trying to be true to yourself, and keep your mind and eyes open to God not what YOU THINK He is or should be. The simple sincear frame of mind such as "God if you are in fact real, make yourself known to me that I may believe." Then stop trying to see what you expect and just wait upon the Lord.

I seek to find Matrix.:)
Will I find it Taken?
That tht I haven't found it yet doesn't mean I won't, right?;)

If Matrix does in fact exist then I would assume you would find Matrix if you did not cease in looking. But since I am not aware of Matrix, I can not testify on the behalf of it's existance. ;)
I can attest to Gods existance by my own personal experience and say that He is well worth anyones time to continue inquiring about.

*Originally posted by JesusSaves
Not so sure what pregnant women have to do w/ it. Please explain.*

Taken is pregnant.

*Originally posted by Avatar
Tony thinks tht pregnant women are selfish, self-serving, ignorant and mortal.*

Actually, I think your avatar is a portrait of your one brain cell.

*Originally posted by Taken
Here are people who supposedly believe God is omnipotent and unfathomable...and yet they preach fear of little demons and (hormones) and shun science as if they are afraid to be proven wrong. Turning a blind eye, screaming..."NO!, I don't want to see the truth...it might make me doubt!"*

LOL!!
You funny!
Is this a point?

*I say dig up the foundations of earth, explore the deepest reaches of the sea beds, journey to the furthest stars.*

I say, you do it; it looks like too much work for me.

*Originally posted by Cris
I'm sure we'll be able to provide you with a more mundane and sensible explanation.*

We'd prefer a correct explanation.

*Without an external independent objective mechanism to show that God exists you will have no way to know that your belief is not self-delusion.*

Without an external independent objective mechanism to show that science is valid you will have no way to know that your belief is not self-delusion.

well this is an interesting thread. ashley, if you can't faithfully represent what you believe, don't post. you by your harsh words are doing more damage to christianity than a thousand rational arguments.

greetings all. not new to forums, but i'm new to this one.

i guess i'm a seeker of sorts too... i have plently of thoughts on all these things, but we shouldn't lay ourselves open too quickly, right? ;)

i've never completely bought what i was told, but i guess there are a few things about atheism that i've never been able to accept.

the biggest one is this:

i was reading the newspaper the other day, and i saw this full-page article for some anti-depressant medication... you know, the ad where the first picture is black-and-white and mrs. jones is depressed, then the next is full color, and she's smiling and planting flowers (in make-up, of course).

and the ad says: (as i remember it) "you too can enjoy your favorite activities again!" :eek:

and i remember always being incredibly depressed when i thought of it. enjoy your favorite activities, puh-leeeeese. just like poor prometheus - push that stone, strain, sweat, get it to the top! now what happens next? ah, but you're not supposed to ask "what next"!! while it's up there maybe you can build something with it, or play with it... but it's all meaningless, and prometheus knows it.

that seemed to be the essence of the ad. "oh, that's ok that your life doesn't have meaning. by enjoying hobbies, you can make little moments of meaning in your over-arching MEANINGLESSNESS." well i'm sorry, but that's a poor comfort. don't feed me some crap about man helping man and taking care of the poor starving children in africa. that's just more "artificial meaning." Nietzsche was one of the few atheists that was willing to accept the implications of his beliefs. this is what he had to say:

“The Madman”
by Fredrich Nietzsche

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours and ran to the market place and cried out incessantly, “I’m looking for God! I’m looking for God!” As many of those who did not believe in God were standing there, he excited considerable laughter.
“Have you lost him, then?” said one. “Has he lost his way like a child?” said another. “Is he hiding?” said a third. “Maybe he is afraid of us or has he gone on a voyage or emigrated?” So they shouted and shouted and laughed him to scorn. But the madman sprang into their midst, pierced them with his glances.
“Where has God gone?” he cried. “I'll tell you. We have killed Him, you and I. We are all His murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the ocean? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained this earth from the sun? Where is this earth moving now? Where are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling, backwards and forwards, and sidewards, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not suddenly become colder? Is not more and more night coming upon us all the time? Must not lanterns have to be lit in the morning hours? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? God's decompose too, you know. And God is dead. He remains dead and we have killed Him. How shall we the murderer of all murders now compose ourselves? For that which was the holiest and the mightiest of all that the world has possessed has bled to death under our knives.
“Who will wipe this blood from us? With what water can we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games will we need to invent? Is not this the greatest of all deeds to great for us to handle? Must not we ourselves now have to become God simply to seem worthy of what we have done? There has never been a greater deed. And whoever shall be born after us because of this deed shall be a part of a different history than all history hitherto.”
Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners. They too were silent, and they stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground and it broke and went out…
(end quote)

this question itself does not drive me to Christianity (or any other religion) per se. but it drives me from atheism, because atheism has implications that i cannot accept. there MUST be more to life than this, it cannot be otherwise.

sorry it's such a long post!! looking forward to discussing it.

-bonsai man

Trees (http://westmedia.com/nebcity/kilmer1.html)
by Joyce Kilmer

I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.

A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the earth's sweet flowing breast;

A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

A tree that may in Summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;

Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.

Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.

That's God

Who is the keeper of the gate? That's God.
And whom do seekers contemplate? That's God.
Whom do the sheep anticipate? That's God.
Who likes to set the record straight? That's God.
Who worked his arse off to create? That's God.
All fossils both in shale and slate? That's God.
Who sent His son to compensate? That's God.
For errors made before that date? That's God.
Who is both fisher and the bait? That's God.
Who doesn't seem to concentrate? That's God.
Who kills the sparrows by the crate? That's God.
Who did, with Mary, fornicate? That's God.
Who tends to do things rather late? That's God.
Who made this evil sinful state? That's God.
Who brings the blasphemer to their fate? That's God.
Who fries the sinners on a grate? That's God.
Who drowns His creatures when irate? That's God.
Who's body count does still inflate? That's God.
Who is this lying fraud? Oh wait, that's God.
Who is this tyrant coward, mate? That's God.
Who is the LORD of death and hate? That's God.

The Nantko Homepage

God doesn't exist,
but don't be too pissed;
it was never such a great thing
to bow to an imaginary king.
-- Gary Welsh

Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on thee
and I’ll forgive thy great big one on me.
~Robert Frost