I'm sure alot of you have heard about swords or blades that are so sharp, they can slice through anything. In fairytales such as excalibur and video games that is. My question is.. is it possible to have a blade that's sharp enough to cut through anything? What would be required to build such a weapon?

a diamon blade maybe?

I don't know. Daimonds may be the hardest material on earth but I heard if you hit it with a hammer it will shatter. It wouldn't be much use if you attempt to slice at a car or a huge chunk of boulder and have the blade shatter to peices.

wot abouuuut a light saber? hehehe

can nanotechnology possibly make one harder than a diamond?

I saw it in a videogame ;) but is it possible?

i doubt it cause of the structure of diamond but i am no expert

and no dimons dont shatter if u hit them

they are the strongest substance (ie best under comprssion or tension)

A diamond will shatter if you hit it with a metal hammer, just like any other rock. You just have to hit it a bit harder. Diamond is the hardest known substance, but it's very brittle; it can't bend even a little bit without breaking. I think diamond would make a very poor blade for a sword. You want sword blades to be as flexible as possible so that you can hit things without having to worry about your sword breaking.

i'm pretty sure a diamond blade is about the hardest blade you could find.. on this side of reality, anyways..:bugeye:

Read Ringworld by Larry Niven: a variable knife is a lenth of wire a few atoms thick that is bound in a chronostasis field. That will cut through anything. The thicker the blade, the more resistance you will encounter. The thinner the blade, the more it will bend and the more likely it will break. The material is an issue too. Diamond is very hard, but not flexible. It's not the hardest substance known to man. Most carbides are harder, and are frequently used instead. You can make it better by edging a flexible material with a hard material.

pumpkinsaren'torange


i'm pretty sure a diamond blade is about the hardest blade you could find.. on this side of reality, anyways..

Nasor

Diamond is the hardest known substance, but it's very brittle; it can't bend even a little bit without breaking



i think you guys mean naturally occuring substance. i'm pretty sure theres been at least one man made substance (made under tremendous pressure and heat) that is considerably harder than natural or manmade diamonds

Gifted as brought up what I thought of. That of a molecular cutting edge. While not possible today I would not think that it will be that far off into the future. Nanotech may well make part of this possible.

Samurai were renown for their edges. The traditional wave pattern left by the folding of the steel many times made for a ledgenary edge of sharpness and yet flexible sword.

With your pick of atoms to work with, assembly of a blade one atom at a time would allow you to create a solid with a perfect lattice structure, perfect blend of materials for hardness and flexibility, and best ultimate strength.

Right now the most durable and expensive blades I can think of are expensive fencing blades made out of maraging steel.

We have had for decades diamond blades with edges a single molecule thick. When you slice off cell shavings for use in electron microscopes and such, you ened them a single cell thick, and these mono-molecula r edged baldes are what you use to get those samples. They are horribly expensive, only big companies and big research places have them. They are, of course, tremendously delicate.

Samurai were renown for their edges. The traditional wave pattern left by the folding of the steel many times made for a legendary edge of sharpness and yet flexible sword.
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It was the hardening technic that made the wave patten,the blade was coated with clay that was thinner at the edge,& done in a wavy patten to look nice.
Although the folding & fire welding of the blade did give it great flexibility.

Japanese swords at their best involved folding soft iron over up to twelve times usually, never more than 20 times. This gave a flexible backbone for the sword. Onto this was welded a hard steel edge, a single bar. The height of this art was maybe 250 to 150 years ago.

Now, about 2,500 years before the Japanese were doing that, the various Celtic peoples of Europe had a blade-smithing technique known as pattern-welding. This involved first twisting together several thin rods of iron to produce a backbone pretty much exactly the same as that used much later in the katana, then welding a hard steel edge to each side. There is one pattern-welded blade in a family collection in Europe which saw use in war over three centuries, remaining in service to one family.

Adam you are right about all of it except the Katana it did not have a welded on hard steel edge!it was one piece! thats why they used the technical of hardening it with thicker clay at the back & thinner at the front.
So the steel was harder at the front than the back.

The katana could not cut a lump of butter if it did not have a hard steel egde welded on. The folded iron provides a tough yet flexible springy backbone. The hard steel edge does the cutting.

The hard steel edge does the cutting.
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Yes & I have told you how they made that hard edge,without welding an edge on to it.
The English sword had fire welded edge's but none of the Japanese swords had that!
PS have you worked with iron or steel??as I have for most of my life.

http://www.swordforum.com/sfu/japanese/anatomy.html


PS have you worked with iron or steel??

Only a little, in school. My older brother made a few daggers a while back. Nothing extensive though. But on the other hand, I know my history.

Well I just looked at the link you gave,& if you are referring to the forge weld,that is where it is ground away exposing it,when they fold the sword they forge or fire weld it together,as it would be like a load of unlamented sheets if they did not.

I watched a film of one of the last great Japanese sword makers,making one in the old traditional way,it was in black & white by the way.
So I have seen one made from start to Finnish.
As I said you are right about the English swords,as they still make a few that way now.

http://users.wpi.edu/~jforgeng/JapaneseIQP/arms_info.htm
http://www.galatia.com/~fer/sword/term.html

There were about a dozen common methods for the Katana.

One method did indeed involve using just the folded metal for the entire blade, including the edge, but this was the weakest and most prone to break. Why? It was one lump of metal, cooled so one part cooled faster than the other, with a boundary region of that same metal. That made it unstable, almost inherently flawed.

Every other method of the common dozen or so involved multiple pieces of metal. Common was a soft iron core with a steel edge, steel spine, and steel supports up each side.

blade that can slice through anything?

no such thing. may be someday we develop a molecular separator that neutralizes the bond between molecules by perhaps adding focused high energy to melt any solid one molecule wide.....

It is conceivable to have a domain wall (a kind of a flaw in space) like that. They are supposedly 2D but existing in our space, of the same brand as point singularities and cosmic strings.

Sadly as far as we know they only exist on paper. You also would have trouble fationing a hilt or a scabbard.

You are all completely off your handles! A diamond blade is rediculously unrealistic, no matter how much money you have! The simple fact is, there IS no diamond large enough to create an entire sword out of! It is simply impossible to make! Since this is the case, if you still would like to make a sword from a single, or rather several, diamonds since the single would be impossible, it would only be as strong as the substance in which it was stuck together with. Sorry, but I dont think that duct tape would cut it on this one, guys:p

what about a laser cut carbonated steel:bugeye:


oh and Maniac....we can create our own diamonds in large enough sizes for daggers atleast;)

This is todays best answer i have had the honor and pleasure weilded three such blades IGEA a katana stile ELGEN based on the clamore stile blade and GWENIVER a english long sword.
all three cut easly through anything but titainum itself and did so with no visible damage or ware to the blades
with respect

The Ginsu Edge Never Needs Sharpening. Ginsu knives feature permanently bonded blades made of surgical stainless steel, enclosed within heat resistant handles that provide a durable, long-lasting knife. Dishwasher safe.

You may never cut through a tin can or saw a lead pipe in half - but the patented Ginsu 2000 can do that and much more!

With Ginsu 2000 you can:

Slice through chicken
Carve meats
Cut raw steak like it's restaurant prime
Make perfect bread slices
Cuts pineapple like butter
Rip through aluminum
Tear through leather k

http://www.designservicesmt.com/images/ginsutv.gif

Ok as a chef im exposed to a LOT of knives (i LOVE my chefs knife, cost me $200 for a 26cm drop forged german stainless steel knife:D its SOOOO nice cutting threw starberries:p)

the hardest knives i know of avalable are either titainum which i dont know much about or high carbon stainless steel

the high carbon ones are vertully IMPOSSABLE to sharpen because they are so hard

if u combined that with a fair amout of wieght rather than an ultra fine edge (ie more like a choping axe than a chefs knife) you would have a VERY good chopper:p

B\W spookz

i would NEVER buy those knives

for starters they are serated where an accurate knife is flat bladed

second they arnt rivited (likly to lose a finger when the glue gives)

third NO knife should go in a dishwasher and if they were a company that cared about the knives they would tell you this

fourthly NOTHING never needs sharpening except ceramic knives and if you cant resharpen it what good is it to u (ie the high carbon stainless steel knives)

and lastly if you walk into a shop that sells knives for commertial use (ie if your willing to pay pay for what the profectionals use, just dont get a butcher to sharpen them because they make the point to thin) you will NEVER see all that TV crap about cutting threw tin ect, because its just avertising garbage. what you WILL see is a chopping board to test the wieght and cutting power which is what you NEED

A plasma blade suspended by a incredibly strong magnetic field… dare I say it but maybe something like a light saber.

http://www.guru3d.com/forum/images/smilies/lsvader.gif

eat me. just dont touch me with the knife.:)

Originally posted by Asguard

fourthly NOTHING never needs sharpening except ceramic knives and if you cant resharpen it what good is it to u (ie the high carbon stainless steel knives)

wtf? knives need no sharpening?!
you know they get unsharp over time because of heavy use, yes?
I've sharpened enough knives to know that sharpening makes them sharper ( lol @ the grammar structure) , which is what I need sometimes

I believe he was saying that there doesnt exist a knife that doesn't need sharpening except a ceramic knife. His grammar was weird, but i believe correct, he said that "Nothing never needs sharpening", meaning that everything needs sharpening.

-AntonK

Originally posted by Asguard
B\W spookz

i would NEVER buy those knives

for starters they are serated where an accurate knife is flat bladed

yes. a serrated edge might have a particular use but in all situations? even i find that weird

water under exrtremely high pressure will cut through more than any metal blade can

yeh i was pressure washing my driveway and cut open my toe. It takes a very large deal of preassure, however and the same rule applies to just about anything. One could use things like diamond particles fired at extemely high velocities in order to create an even more powerful pressure-type blade.

True, great pressure can be useful as a sharp blade but how do you make such a pressure firing machine mobile in a form of a sword or some sort of a gun??....Like a laser that can shoot out micro diamond crytals along with radiation heavy lasers....don't know if it makes sense. I have heard of trying laser cut blades at a micro fine level that can cut through solid concrete.:confused:

wouldnt you need something thin enough like only a few atoms wide to separate the atoms in the object you are cutting hell i dont know what im talking about lol:m:

If we're talking pressure, might as well just use explosives. So therefore I say a nuclear weapon is the best cutting tool ever.

I think that when talking about this we have to limit it to physical innanimate objects like a typical sword in appearance. What are the Nano people always talking about? Bucky balls and nanotubes? I would say that they are the way to go right now. After all the reason a diamond is strong is because of the carbon inside isn't it? If we form it how we want in to the tubes or spheres I would assume it would be stronger than a diamond or titanium.

Let's put some science into this thread on Sciforums.

1. All edges will blunt or crack with use. A good cutting knife is one that can be easily resharpened. That's why soft carbon steels are used by professionals - they blunt easily but professionals will always sharpen a knife before use. Only housewives want knives that don't need resharpening.

2. That includes ceramic blades - they are hard but will chip with use and are the devil (kitchen devil?) to resharpen.

3. Diamond is the hardest substance known - not because it contains carbon but because it is pure carbon in a tetrahedral crystal structure. Graphite is also pure carbon in a layered hexagonal structure and so is one of the 'softest' solids known.

4. Diamond, like any brittle material, can be cut by a metal blade - the diamond industry does it everyday. It simply means that the blade will wear away - and require replacement - faster than the diamond is cut. Dusting the blade with diamond dust improves the cutting/wear rate.

5. Diamond can be easily cleaved along its well-defined crystallographic plance by a hard metal chisel - this is the first step in creating a 'polished' diamond jewel and is the diamond industry does it every day.

6. Nuclear explosions - and indeed any explosion - will not slice through everything. At Hiroshima and Nagasaki, structures such as pylons were relatively unscathed. The blast (as opposed to the heat and radiation) from any explosion is an overpressure that works best against slab-sided structures like walls. It is relatively ineffective against skeletal structures.


7. All of this is readily available in library books.

8. There is ongoing research in which blades are vibrated at ultrasonic rates to improve cutting rate. This may not be readily available yet.

actully stainless steel is used, NOT high carbon steel and for a very good reason

acid etches high carbon steel so just slicing tomatoes will wreck that blade for good

ceramic blades wont go blunt but your right, they will chip and they are very brittle so while good for slicing say parsly all day every day they MUST be well looked after for a slight fall will shatter the blade

each blade has a different use

a high carbon stainless steel blade would be fine on a chopping axe because it doesnt HAVE to keep an ultra fine edge, cuts with the weight not the edge. Using a ceramic choping axe on the other hand would be shear idiocy. now if you wanted to use a ceramic knife on say cucumber or parsly

for tomatoes and other aciditic fruits and veg a stainless steel knife is the best, easy to keep rasor sharp and wont etch

there are also different sharpness the knives are kept at depending on the job

a butcher will keep his knives ultra sharp which will mean he has to resharpen them all the time, wearing them away and taking up time but doing a better job. A chef on the other hand has his very sharp compared to domestic use but blunt compared to a butcher, this means they stay sharp longer and u dont have to replace them as often and u dont spend as much time sharperning knives, say once a fortnight on a stone and ever use (or a little less( on the steel rather than every night on the stone

i dont know but i would say that surgical knives would make butchers knives look blunt, probably profectionally sharpened ever use rather than like a butcher or we do but i dont know

scalpels and such, from what I know, are so sharp you woulnd't feel it cutting you.

The angle a blade is sharened is just as important as the sharpness. A cold chisel is ground to a 45 degree angle, whereas most knives are a 20 degree angle. You can sharpen both to a razor edge.

Anyone knnow the exact definition of a razor edge?

where the molicules form points?

i would say its a compairison to the sharpness of a cut throat razor but as no one uses them anymore no one knows how sharp that is

“Its as sharpe as the devils tail” http://www.guru3d.com/forum/images/smilies/xxrotflmao.gif

I still believe that a plasma blade would be the only thing able to cut though everything as well as maintain now damage to the blade (a beam of super-hot ion vapors) of course there would be a titanic energy need.

interesting thought, empennage but u forget however that nuclear blasts dont affect things such as concrete structures... so technically it cant cut anything

Who said nuclear blasts don't affect concrete structures? Concrete is definately succeptible to heat. You may be thinking of neutron bombs which are designed just to kill life and leave structures standing. Or perhaps you are referring just to the radiation of a bomb being blocked by the concrete. The actual BLAST of a nuclear bomb will most definately crush and destroy concrete. The heat alone would vaporize it.

-AntonK

interesting.. perhaps i am an idiot...?:confused:

AntonK, have you seen pictures of hiroshima? Concrete structures are definitely capable of withstanding nuclear blast.

Originally posted by Gifted
AntonK, have you seen pictures of hiroshima? Concrete structures are definitely capable of withstanding nuclear blast.
That might be true beyond a point where everything is carorized, but don't forget that today's bombs are immensely more powerful than those that were dropped on Japan.

The site below had some example of what would happen if a one megaton bomb on a city. Steel reincorced concrete buildings are destroyed out to two km from ground zero. Think of what would be left of a sprawling metropolis if a circle 4 km wide was carved out of it.

http://users.westnet.gr/~cgian/ap1bmb.html

America is supposed to have bombs that are 9 Megaton, but I know I read somewhere about the soviets having a 50 megaton bomb.

Is more about distance from the blast rather then invisibility, ya a concert bunker would survive a blast from a multi-megaton bomb from as close a mile way but nothing would survive from just feet way! That what I have been saying: a heating or vaporizing blade will cut EVERYTHING nothing could survive no matter how strong it is or how high is vaporizing point is.

a dubble edged sword which cuts both ways

Point taken, ectropic.

America is supposed to have bombs that are 9 Megaton, but I know I read somewhere about the soviets having a 50 megaton bomb. I believe the fifty mT bomb was only one test blast. as for arsenals, that would have to be looked up.

actually it was 59Mt. Say so in "The Nuclear Almanac" published by Addison-Wesley inc.

I heard it was up to 80 Mt , not known for sure. anyhow, supposedly it started a fire the size of connecticut, in a relativly cold area.

Originally posted by Ectropic
I think that when talking about this we have to limit it to physical innanimate objects like a typical sword in appearance. What are the Nano people always talking about? Bucky balls and nanotubes? I would say that they are the way to go right now. After all the reason a diamond is strong is because of the carbon inside isn't it? If we form it how we want in to the tubes or spheres I would assume it would be stronger than a diamond or titanium.
givent hat nano tubes are just that, small tubes, I can't see them being used for cutting anything. Try slicing a loaf of bread w/ PVC pipe - same deal, just on a smaller scale.

As for buckey balls, they are very large (60 C atoms IIRC), and again are usefull for holding stuff, but certainlny not for cutting.


I'm thinking super fluid jet blades (like a high-pressure washer, but with lH2). in order to cut something, you have to seperate it' molecules/atoms. what better way than to have something which atomically takes up less space than the items you want to cut? given the spacial overlap effect seen with super-cooled H2, I bet if you could keep it cold, you could wedge it through nearly anything. it's be denser than anything you could put it against on this planet!

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Is more about distance from the blast rather then invisibility, ya a concert bunker would survive a blast from a multi-megaton bomb from as close a mile way but nothing would survive from just feet way! That what I have been saying: a heating or vaporizing blade will cut EVERYTHING nothing could survive no matter how strong it is or how high is vaporizing point is.

Things within a few feet of the bomb may not actually have been vaporized in theory... The sheer force of the blast itself may have done nothing more than essentially moved them large distances, possibly entire structure at times, far from the center of the blast while remaining completely in tact.

Originally posted by Maniac11919
Things within a few feet of the bomb may not actually have been vaporized in theory... The sheer force of the blast itself may have done nothing more than essentially moved things large distances, possibly entire structure at times, far from the center of the blast while remaining completely in tact.

Things within a few feet of the bomb may not actually have been vaporized in theory... The sheer force of the blast itself may have done nothing more than essentially moved things large distances, possibly entire structure at times, far from the center of the blast while remaining completely in tact.

First, questions:
1) I've heard some things about katanas, and the many types of them during the Japanese history. My question:
Are these swords actually present in history? If yes, what distinguish each other, physically?
Masamune, Muramasa, Osafune, Dojigiri, Kunitsuna, Yasutsuna.
2) I heard that Damascus sword is one quality sword. Any explanation?
3) Off-topic: Estoc is known to be able to pierce through anything (not slice, this is why I say it's off-topic). Why?

Second, some (partially silly) suggestions:
1) I'd rather say that beam sabre is hard to make, but if it could be made, wouldn't it slice with heat?
2) 'Tiny amchine saw' made in the sword: what do you say?

Hit me

Haven't you guys seen those late night infomercials for those knives that can cut through anything?
I don't know what they're made of but they kick pretty solid ass, they can cut through the head of a sledge hammer, and then straight afterwards glide through frozen meat like hot butter.
A sword made like one of them would be pretty kick ass, you could lop off limps with the flick of a wrist.

Originally posted by Maniac11919
Things within a few feet of the bomb may not actually have been vaporized in theory... The sheer force of the blast itself may have done nothing more than essentially moved them large distances, possibly entire structure at times, far from the center of the blast while remaining completely in tact.

Ya and things a just a few feet away from the bomb could withstand the multi-million degree temperatures... Yaaaa :rolleyes: No form of solid matter within the plasma ball of the bomb would survive.

makes me woncer of one thing:
Is it true that plasma is a collection of sub-atomic particles?

curioucity,

Depending plasma could means alot of things: it could mean body fluid such a blood plasma or a ionized hot gas or any substance of fluid nature.

Plasma, as refered to here, is so energetic that the electrons are stripped from the atoms, making a soup of nuclei and electrons. The amount of energy required depends on how long you want it to stay plasma, and what your making it out of. The gas in your flourescent light is plasma. The superheated hydrogen inside of a funsion reactor is plasma. The fluid in your blood is also called plasma, but it's a totally differnet story. The plasma WCF is refering to in the post before yours is mostly the bomb, and the air surrounding it, pumped with as much energy as, generally, twenty thousand to fifty million tons of TNT. If it isn't vaporized instantly, it's certainly melted to slag in a few seconds.

gee, scary..... btw, from what I've read too, to make plasma one doesn't neccessarily need to heat up material to some point. Is it true?

Florescent lights work by passing electricity through a small amount of murcury gas. This ionizes the gas, producing a small amount of plasma. The plasma emits UV light, which passes through a chemical coating the inside of the tube, converting it to visible light. There are variations on this, but this is basically how it works. You can touch these lights and not get burned while they're on, so obviously how hot a plasma is varies.

Essentially plasma is a bunch of ions. Using an electric current, like in the light, requires less energy than the bomb. BTW, the light doesn't use pure plasma, there's alway a little bit of it that's gas.

As far as I am aware, there have been no "man-made" materials developed "harder than" diamond. One of the closest is CBN:

"Cubic boron nitride (CBN) is an artificially synthesized material exceeded in hardness only by diamond. Unlike diamond, CBN is stable under conditions of high temperature (up to 1000 degrees C) normally created when machining hardened ferrous or super alloy materials."

I've done some tooling design (mechanical engineer) so I know a bit about this. Implied in your question is not just the HARDNESS of the blade, but the EFFECTIVENESS of the blade.

Actually one of the most effective blade configurations is high-strength steel with a COATING of diamond or CBN on the edge. The core material of the blade has the excellent toughness of high strength steel, while the microns-thin coating is extremely hard and able to "cut" into any substance presented to it.

Of course it also depends on the geometry of what you are trying to cut - so that the geometry of the cutting tool must be optimized accordingly.

Obsidian.

The sharpest edge known to man. Sharper than an unused scalpal and used in eye surgery prior to the proliferation of the laser.

It just won't hold an edge.

As far as I am aware, there have been no "man-made" materials developed "harder than" diamond. One of the closest is CBN:

"Cubic boron nitride (CBN) is an artificially synthesized material exceeded in hardness only by diamond. Unlike diamond, CBN is stable under conditions of high temperature (up to 1000 degrees C) normally created when machining hardened ferrous or super alloy materials."


Last I knew several carbide compounds were harder. Like diamond, though, they are too brittle to be used alone. Everything else, about material and blade goemetry I agree with. I've just been told from several sources that silicon carbide(at least) is harder.

The Skinwalker's got a point - glass will fracture to a molecular edge. That's why they started using obsidian for surgical cutting tools.

I like the chainsaw idea myself...

Lastly, the ultrasonically vibrating blade is a sorta cool idea, but wouldn't it go blunt REALLY fast? I mean, it would be about the same as if you sawed down a tree with your breadknife, it would just happen really quickly... wear on the blade would still be commensurate to cutting, I would think.

Also -

Ultrasonic vibrations will make your hand vibrate at something like the same frequency, which would make it get really big and red and itchy.

And -

What happens if you're having a vibroblade fight? Someone attacks - you block - you both go deaf from the sound.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

or something like that.

double suicide using sound, hahahaha...........
Hmmm, is it that I'm not thorough yet, or has nobody mentioned electric blades? Though I doubt it will be sharp, right.
Oh, I remember this. Can a 'super-effective' blade be made in such a way that it manipulates elements? I mean like fire, lightning, etc etc....

Fire is not a super effective cutting tool unless it's really REALLY hot, like a cutting torch. Even then it's not really fast - assuming that you want something that cuts about as fast as you can swing it, fire is probably not the way to go. Flaming sword would look pretty impressive...

Electricity would probably be a little better; a high enough voltage will ionize almost any solid and hopefully cause its particles to disassociate. This kind of "arc cutter" would require extremely high voltage/current however.

So far the most effective cutting "element" that anyone's mentioned is probably water, combined with an abrasive.

Okay, point taken.
Speaking of water, what about freezing sword?
I think even when a freezing sword is set to be so cold, it won't crack big stuffs easily.....

Speaking of water, what about freezing sword? I believe that he was meaning high pressure water jets. At ver yhigh pressures, water will cut through alot of stuff. Abrasives added to the stream make it essentially a focused sand blaster, the aplications vary.

Freezing club would be better - freeze things and then shatter them. Only problem is, I have no idea how to freeze things quickly except for squirting something like liquid nitrogen on them. I don't think a freezing sword would be much use at all... but that's me...

How about something that uses micro black holes? If they were small enough, they could be suspended somehow and would consume the matter in their path, possibly leaving a clear swath through any object.

They would tend to bleed off mass over time, so they shouldn't get out of control. Black hole blade!

Sorta like invisible blade to me.....

Originally posted by Gifted
Last I knew several carbide compounds were harder. Like diamond, though, they are too brittle to be used alone. Everything else, about material and blade goemetry I agree with. I've just been told from several sources that silicon carbide(at least) is harder.

LOL you need to shoot those sources. Silicon carbide compounds ain't harder than diamond. I should know, I worked with all those materials for years.

When you talk about Hardness, you can use the Rockwell scale or the Brinell scale, or sometimes, the MOHS scale. Any way you cut it, Diamond exceeds any of the manmade materials, although CBN (cubic boron nitride) is very close. In some cases it has advantages over diamond (namely, cost!) but it is not harder.

If still in doubt - here's data from an independent source.

http://www.us-products.com/sitehtml/lappingabrs.html

*********************************************

DIAMOND: (Rating, MOHS 10) Both a natural and man-made synthetic abrasive. The hardest and sharpest abrasive known. Best suited for tungsten carbide and other very hard materials. Because it is so hard it should not be used on softer metals where embedding may be a factor. When a plate has been embedded with the Diamond abrasive, it cuts fast and produces fine finishes. In recent years, synthetic fine Diamond powders have been increasingly used in industrial applications.

CUBIC BORON NITRIDE (commonly known as Borazon™ CBN): A man-made synthetic abrasive that is almost as hard as Diamond on the MOHS scale. This abrasive material is well suited to ferrous metals in a lapping operation, as it will not carbonize as Diamond will when interacting with Fe (Iron). Borazon™ CBN is especially well suited for lapping 52100 bearing steel, cast iron, die steel, tool steel, stellite, super alloys and in some cases ceramic materials.

NORBIDE ABRASIVE: (Rating, MOHS 9.7) A fused abrasive with high grain strength. It has a hexagonal structure and is not easily friable. Useful only for unusual or special lapping operations.

SILICON CARBIDE: (Rating, MOHS 9.5) A fused, hard crystalline abrasive. Fast cutting with good crystal breakdown when used to lap either high or low tensile strength material. It is well suited for rough lapping operations, forged or hardened gears, valves, tool room work and general maintenance where polish is not essential. With Silicon Carbide, all lapped material will have a frosty or gray finish.

ALUMINUM OXIDE: (Rating, MOHS 9, just under Silicon Carbide) A fused, crystalline abrasive. It has a very hard crystal structure that is slowly dulled and hard to fracture. It is best suited for use on high tensile strength materials, rough lapping operations, hardened hears, ball bearing grooves or lapping operations where pressure can be exerted to break down the crystals. It does not lend itself to fine finishes or precision lapping.

FUSED ALUMINA: (Rating, MOHS 9) Another form of Fused Alumina is the 38 white Aluminum Oxide abrasive, which is white in color with friable crystals. The pressure on (friable) crystals, while lapping, causes them to keep breaking down into still smaller particles, which perform the finishing operation, to produce the low r.m.s. finishes or polish. 38 while Aluminum Oxide is valuable for lapping stainless, chrome plate, beryllium and ferrite whose hardness range is below the 62-63 Rockwell C Scale.

CORUNDUM: (Rating, MOHS 9) A natural abrasive found in the earth, with a softer crystalline structure than Silicon Carbide or Aluminum Oxide. It breaks down readily and is important for lapping a great variety of medium-hard metals (Rockwell C 35-45). It gives a medium polish or reflective finish.

GARNET: (Rating, MOHS 8 to 9) A natural abrasive mined from the earth, with a blocky crystalline structure that does not readily embed itself in lapped parts. Its greatest asset is that it may be safely used for lapping cast iron gears, brass or bronze running seals and instrument gears where non-embedding qualities are desired. It has a medium polishing quality.

Very nice Watcher, that’s the kind of science we like here... with reference and detailed explanations.

http://www.guru3d.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

Thank you for clarifying that for me, Watcher.

It would be pretty funny to watch some of these lightsaber nuts to fight with these real lighsabers (http://www.futurehorizons.net/saber.htm).

My guess is the fight wouldn't last too long :D

cute, but fragile, but poisonous when broken, but......

It's only neon - I didn't think that was too poisonous, being an inert gas.

Probably for an everything-cutting device, you're best using a fusion torch or some other similar high heat source.

I think a plasma or nanotech sword would work the best.

A high tempurature plasma would melt/cut things with out being damaged.

A nanotech sword could "heal" itself using nano robots.

But a combination of the two with special heat resistant nanobots separating a plasma blade from the rest of the sword would work the best.

Another high tech thing would be an antimatter sword. When the blade edge made of antimatter hits regular matter both would be destroyed. So you would need a continous supply of antimatter for the sword to continously work. So technically it would be a antimatter flow sword.

Antimatter swrod seem to sound like antimatter gun to me.... everytime the antimatter gets exposed to matter, it's destroyed. Oh, and not to mention that the annihilation energy is high enough to kill you without proper protection (and I do mean proper, careful)

Yeah... your antimatter sword would be constantly exploding... a little inconvenient.

The plasma sword was explored in a previous thread called <a href="http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28834">Constructing a Lightsaber</a>; it seems like the most likely concept for a "cuts anything" sword at this point.

If you had a blade that self-sharpened using nanorobots, they'd have to step pretty lively to keep from getting wiped off when you cut through something.

For nano robots to work best maybe the sword could have a "rest mode" while in rest mode the nanobots could come out and fix the sword and before the sword is used they could automatically return to where ever they are stored. Maybe in a sword holder or something like that.

And as for the antimatter flow sword it could have a energy absorber on it so the matter antimatter reaction could power up the sword so it could produce more antimatter and there by continue the antimatter production needed for the sword to work.

But a antimatter flow sword would be ALOT harder to make then a nanotech sword.

Nanotech swords would be really slow; because they work by chemical reactions, you would have to allow the machines time to take everything apart bit by bit without cooking themselves.

It is true that eventually you could do just about anything with enough nanoassemblers or disassemblers; but it might take a long time, and a lot of energy.

Myself I'd go for a cosmic string blade; or even a domain wall, suggested on this thread way back at the beginning.

A domain wall is like a flat black hole, with length and breadth, but no thickness.

Cut through anything, but would weigh billions of tons, and be impossible to hold.

_________________
SF worldbuilding at
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When this thread was originated was there any intention that the blade be possible to make? Any technological limitations? Or is this all metatheoretical?

I suppose the last option...... maybe

Then yeah, I think we can pretty much go with various space-warping phenomena. Best way to remove matter is to gate it somewhere else.

just remember my 'maybe' there dude...... jumping too eagerly into conclusion can hurt......

I think some of these sword ideas may eventually work but the more powerful the sword, the harder it is to make.

Since some nanotech will be made in the next few decades its the most likely of the swords to maybe be developed.

Hears a rough estamate of when each of these swords could maybe be made.

Nanotech- 50 to 100 years.

Antimatter Flow Sword- 100 to 200+ years.

Plasma Sword- ? Anytime someone gets it to work.

Black Hole or Cosmic String Sword- 500 to 1000+ years.

Time Blade- Sends things to another time or dimension. About the same as the Black Hole or Cosmis String Swords but could maybe be modefied for making and closing some sort of portal through time. After Black Hole or Cosmic String Sword has been developed to a more advanced form.

So any of these could be made but the closest one to all of us would be a nanotech sword or a plasma sword if it was some how made. But remember depenting on the speed of technology advancing it could take alot more or less time for any of these to be developed.

As another thing to think about I remember this quote:

"Any sufficently advanced technology is indestinguishable from magic"

I think it was Author C. Clark that said it.

I wonder about the ethical ramifications of the time/dimensional blade though, I mean what if you were just sitting down to dinner and an alien arm appeared in your soup? And, I mean, it's not even Alien Arm Surprise or anything like that, it's just vegetable.

Didn't think about things coming into this world from other worlds.:D

But instead of just an arm what if that whole alien creature came through!:eek:

Might make a good Sci-Fi story.

And remember Sci-Fi is only Sci-Fi until it happens.;)

BTW, when you said nanotech, were you talking about that ol' Deus Ex "eutactic blade"?

I didn't get to play that game yet but I have heard it got good reviews.

I may be wrong about this but most swords work by sliceing through objects.
The Japenese swords have a Razor edge on them and can slice through many things but you do not use Brute force to slice through an object with a japenese sword you use a Sliceing motion fast and furious, the sword then seperates the bonds of the object you are sliceing harder objects are harder to slice due to the compactness of the individual molecules. If you were to take an ordinary Steel Sword and take Focused Laser Beams(yes i know sounds far fetched) and Sharpen the said sword at a perfect angle down to the molecule this said sword would be able to seperate easily the molecules of other objects, but would still have to be a sliceing motion as brute force would just dull the blade imediately i suspect.

what about iridium or tungstun carbide for blade material

or
just from a sci-fi point of view

you could make the blade in a sub atomic neutron latice stabilized with all sorts of compinsators, tada 4000 ton sword with cuting power

how about chemically catalystic material for the blade? uh, okay, maybe such thing never ever exist anyway....
on a side note, I thought this hatchet's been buried, but it pops up again now.... happy to know.

Have any of your every heard of metal whiskers? They are sometimes formed between electrical wires on micro chips. They are perfectly formed crystals and the ones made of iron withstood 150 times as much force without bending as steel. Unfortunately they are very tiny but they would be great for the leading edge of the blade.

Ok, I know there hasn't been a post here for over a year, but I looked the thread over and there are a few things here that could stand some clarifying.

First, Japanese weaponry. Through various means (smelting technique, composite (different types of iron and steel) construction, and surface hardening (actually edge hardening)), traditional Japanese swords had a very hard and somewhat brittle edge integrally connected to a much softer and more flexible back. The thick back provided strength and suppleness, the hard edge could be polished to be extremely sharp and to retain that sharp edge for a long time between sharpenings. This produced a weapon that was well-suited for the demands of combat between foes wearing various types of segmented or laminar armor. The super sharp edge was also very effective against unarmored foes.

However, the secret to the cutting ability of this weapon is the edge. To the naked eye, it appears to be as smoothly polished as the flat of the blade. However, under a microscope, tiny nicks, breaks, and chips in the last micrometer of the edge can be observed. These had the effect of providing a "micro-serrated" edge. As any afficiando of these weapons is aware, they cut soft materials much better with a draw cut than with a straight chop. The micro-serrations effectively turn the edge into a sort of molecular saw. Not bad for technology developed several hundred years ago.

Most other ultra-hard materials mentioned in this thread (especially diamond) have the disadvantage of being very brittle. As the gentleman who handled professional grade ceramic knives in the kitchen mentioned, these have very sharp edges and cut very well, but cannot be handled carelessly lest they shatter. This is typical of all ceramic materials due to their fracture stress properties. Although diamond is not strictly speaking, a ceramic, it's extreme hardness allows it to behave as one. The problem with brittle blades, of course, is that when struck against a hard object, they have a high likelihood of breaking. This is especially true for any blade used as a hand-to-hand weapon against similar weapons. As we see, both the European and Oriental swordsmiths weren't stupid!

One possibility seems to have been overlooked. There are several processes that can embed small pieces of diamond, of the scale of the "serrations" in the Japanese blades as described above, into softer materials. I should point out that the hardest steel imaginable is still much softer than diamond. With proper polishing, these bits of diamond would form a shape similar to the points of the teeth of a saw, with the softer metal between them wearing to form the voids between the saw teeth. I don't recall that anyone has every tried to create a practical cutting instrument using this technique. The technology is quite simple and available today, should anyone wish to try it.

Nanofiber technology is intriguing for the role of a cutting instrument, simply because a thinner edge is easier to push through a material than a thick one, and the maximum possible fineness of the edge is determined by materials properties. Nanofibers, which hold the potential for very high specific strengths, lend themselves to this. However, I feel some sort of serration must be introduced to the edge for the reasons pointed out above. It may be possible to eventually construct a blade composed mostly of nanofibers oriented in the long direction of the blade, but with a few "sawtooth" nanofibers or embedded diamond crystals "grown" in a direction perpendicular to the blade.

There was mention of nuclear weapons cutting through anything, or not being able to do so. Nuclear explosives have two properties of interest to us here. First, they release enormous amounts of heat. This heat load will cause any material known to man to vaporize, provided it remains in the vicinity of the explosion. They don't so much cut their way through objects as melt (or vaporize) their way through.

The second property is that a nuclear explosive detonated in a gaseous environment such as earth's atmosphere produces a shock wave in that gas, expanding outward at high speeds (initially, supersonic speeds) from the point of the explosion. When this shock wave encounters frangible items such as poorly-reinforced concrete buildings, those items are fractured and literally blown away by the high-speed winds accompanying the shock wave. So, a concrete wall that is too far away from the explosion to be vaporized or melted may still be smashed by the shock. Note that this shattering mechanism doesn't work in the vacuum of space. Again, the nuclear device doesn't so much "cut" something as "break" it.

There is a rather fascinating exception to this. During one of the US aboveground bomb tests back in the 1950's, two large (~4 ft. diameter) iron spheres, coated in graphite for thermal protection, were placed next to the test bomb on either side. After the detonation, they were found roughly 1/2 mile from ground zero in opposite directions, little the worse for wear. The explanation is that the high blast force generated by the bomb was enough to propell them away from the explosion faster than the massive heat release could melt through first the graphite coating and then the iron underneath. Being solid spheres, there was no internal structure to be crushed by the blast. Effictively, they behaved as giant elastic tennis balls...or baseballs, if you prefer that analogy. This test was part of the rationale for the Orion project, a concept for pulsed nuclear spacecraft propulsion that was conceived back in the 1960s but never built.

The point to all this discussion of nuclear explosives in a thread about cutting devices is that any sort of plasma device, that is, a "light saber" would "cut" by the same mechanism as a nuclear device: extreme heat. I suggest that any such device powerful enough to cut through say, a bank vault, would either emit so much thermal radiation that it gave the wielder third degree burns, or else the thermal energy would be so well contained within the "blade" of the device that it might to be difficult to detect the heat leakage if you placed your bare hand an inch or two away from the "blade". I suppose it depends on what sort of plasma and heat containment technology you postulate for such a thing.

Someone mentioned water jets, and that's the right track, especially with abrasives, they can cut through alot, but need to be slowed down at the other end by a tank of water or something.

Actually in use in industry are plasma jets, which cut with a very hot stream of plasma. They are working on something now (don't ask how I know) which cuts with a stream of molten iron, which is maintained in a superheated state by a current of electricity running through the stream itself.

It would be extremely difficult to make it into a mobile sword-like object. The more powerful a stream of anything would be, the more it would cut into anything that stopped it after a certain length. If there was a material or force field that could stop it after a certain length, then that material or force field could also be used as a defense.

And, it's also silly to have an extremely powerful weapon with such a limited range. (No substitute for a good blaster at your side)

I'm sure alot of you have heard about swords or blades that are so sharp, they can slice through anything. In fairytales such as excalibur and video games that is. My question is.. is it possible to have a blade that's sharp enough to cut through anything? What would be required to build such a weapon?


if you propel anything fast enough at any object it will slice through it, no need for dimond blades... whoever thought about that one dosnt realise you dont get long dimonds in that size, or the fact that they really DO shatter if hit by a hammer.

ok, diamond blades.. this wudn't work. lets say u did find a diamond large enough. u make a blade out of it, and sharpen it up. u'd never be able to weild it. the weight wud get to it b4 u get to even try and shatter it. the whole idea of a diamond blade is stupid. now, a single molecular edged blade is what u want. problem is, it wud be to "weak." it wud break easily due to the incredable thin edge. scientist have actually gotten pretty close. down to a few molecules of steel or so, thanks to diamond and laser cuts. but there is no single molecular sword. the best swords that have exsisted were the ones made back in the 1400's - 1600's by the japanese. these were the best swords, and went completely unrivaled, up until the 20th century.thats wen we discovered the diamond and laser cuts. we took the same swords and made 'em better.

A lightsabre. great idea. problem with it, well, plasma is to hot. the only way to make plasma work for this is to "package" it wih an electro magnetic feild. then there's the problem of, the feild itself. the feild wud hold in the heat and everything, but the problem wud be that the feild wud also repel anything else. and by that i mean, u get the "futurama lightsaber." were u get the cool look and effect, but it work just as good as a baseball bat or nightstick.

The "sharpest" thing we have out there right now, is a laser. the laser's we have can cut through anything, just about. steel, rock, you name it. lasers are what we use right now to cut diamonds for rings. diffrent wave lengths cut, and polish the diamond. so those are the sharpest things now. and really, they're not sharp, they just use heat to cut things.

so overall, a single molecular sword wud be the thing to cut through anything. but we dont have the technology to crete one right now.

(please excuse the spelling, it's now 1:30 where i live, and i'm very tired. thank you for your time).

Actually, diamond only shatters if you hit it in exactly the right place. All the pressure has to be in one very, very small place for it to shatter. The edge of a blade would be made so that there is no shatterpoint. It has to be hit at a vertex for it to shatter.

But perhaps a carbide blade that is diamond-encrusted?

http://www.the-frat-pack.com/images/news/bladeswebsite.jpg


These blades sliced through the hearts and prejudices of America and the world.

Okay...........

They did.

plasma blade is your answer.

plasma blade is your answer.

Please explain what a plasma blade is, and how exactly that would be constructed.

Please explain what a plasma blade is, and how exactly that would be constructed.

I envision plasma blade as a tool that is held on a metal stick which has half of its length for plasma creation.

http://www.frascati.enea.it/ProtoSphera/ProtoSphera%202001/2.%20Physical%20basis_files/image447.jpg

image shows a similar project for the creation of a plasma gun.

Dude, you know what that looks like, right?

Dude, you know what that looks like, right?

what a pervert.