http://www.rferl.org/content/Why_Ir...cts_To_Presidents_Economic_Style/1962912.html Right now, I am trying to understand what exactly is going on in Iran and how large the issue really is there. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/30/2805647.htm?section=justin I realize there is some kind of modernist movement there, and they have butted heads with the ecclesiastical branch of the Iranian government. How serious are they, though, and what are their motives? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8492941.stm http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...gn=homepage&utm_medium=feeds&utm_source=feeds Mousavi, I know, was one of the main movers and shakers who helped to overthrow the Shah. My question is, how much difference does his influence really make? And just what is this guy trying to pull, now? Does he have any official publications in English? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/bab...er-support-for-islamic-republics-tyranny.html He sounds like a moderate reformer based on what he says here. http://www.theticker.org/about/2.8217/iran-s-green-revolution-1.2163266 I still don't understand the full aims of the Green Revolution in Iran. Besides being a Democratic movement, what are the details of their ideology? What are their motives? What outcomes are they looking for? "Green" tells me little unless they are an environmentalist group. http://www.greeniran.org/ I found their home page, and they seem mostly all about censure against the Iranian government. I am having trouble coming to grips with who is involved with their ideology, what their ultimate aims are, how much of a plan they actually have, or how popularly they are supported. If the Greens did succeed in accomplishing their goals, what would their relationship be with the US? With Europe? The Commonwealth? How would this change their relationship with the Chinese?
The Iranian Politics has split between Evil and Less Evil...the same peas of a different pod. Sad that a great civilization reduced to garbage in the name of Islam.
To know what is going on in Iran, pretend they are just like Americans/ Or what Americans would be if they did not have 1000 military bases and were not occupying several countries and bombing innocent civilians and if they were spending a quarter of their GDP on their citizens social welfare, but were still voting Republican.
I would not call the Mullahs "evil," per se, but more conservative and retarded, made dangerous, rather than merely nattering and troublesome, by being invested with far more power than a religious authority should ever be trusted with. Equating "asinine" with "evil" is just retarded. Those who think that Islam is especially incapable of being reformed really just want Christianity to be treated as if it were somehow special in the world, and I do not adhere to this view whatsoever. I understand them and everything that is wrong with their way of doing things. What I do not understand, which is more for me a source of curiosity than apprehension, is what the purpose of this "Green Movement" really is. It does not clearly indicate itself as having any concrete ideological basis except for their mutual agreement that the Mullahs are jerks, which I would not hesitate for very long to agree with them upon. S.A.M., I do not have a strictly speaking anti-US sentiment. I have been skeptical of my government's decisions on numerous occasions, just like any patriotic American should, but I am not sure that the American government's activities universally warrant censure. As far as Iran is concerned, I do think that the politics and ideological currents in Iran make it, although perhaps not alien to Western currents of thought, certainly unique to the region. In fact, part of what this thread is pointed at is trying to figure out what is going through these people's heads.
I think there is great potential to bring Iran back into the family of nations if this revolutionary government is dismantled, and a real representative one is formed. Yes, there is a significant religious nut base in Iran, but even immediately after the Iranian revolution when religious fervor was so high, when Khomeni instituted the mandatory head scarf law, even then there were women protests against it. The majority of Iranians are quite capable of integrating into terrorism-less state of mind. I know the reform movement there is increasingly anti Khamene'i himself, and against the IRGC - who seem to be overpowering even Khamene'i. The pushback against IRGC is so strong that people want to rid of the whole thing, not just of the tyranny that it inflicts, without removing the ideology. The revolutionary regime's days are numbered. It might take a bit of time, but it simply can't survive.
I don't think "dismantling" Irans governments would make Iran any more happier than dismantling Israeli apartheid would make Israelis The simple fact is that Iran believes itself to be a nation of consequence and the world treats it like that is true. Its hard to believe the world doesn't revolve around Iran these days
I don't think there is anything to worry about with Iran. If Ahmedinejad was in control, there might be, but the Ayatollah would never go to war. You can trust clerics more than you can trust politicians. Menawhile if killing a million people, running torture camps and extraordinary rendition, and destroying two countries and eight years of bombing civilians is not enough for you to consider the US worthy of "censure", then Iran has a very long way to go before you can even lift an eyebrow.
Well, as long as nobody is trying to get a clear picture of what is really happening there, the more room there is going to be for extremists in the US to drum up anti-Iranian hysteria. It is already pretty much established doctrine, in the US, that Iran is ruled by terrorist overlords who are bent on building a huge nuclear arsenal. In fact, if you say something to controvert it, you establish yourself as an idiot. I am the only person I know of who has suggested that the central government of Iran is using its nuclear scheme as a political smoke-screen. Like their aerospace program, it seems like nothing but a stunt aimed at covering up for the problems with their policy-making. It just strikes me as attention-getting.
Why would they need a smokescreen? The west has its attention only on them. They have to put up a show once in a while. There is no business like show business. Imagine what its like for Iranians to read every single day that if their government is dumb, others are complete morons I mean most of us just read all this stuff and think, how can anyone be that stupid?
Oh, I take Ahmadinejad's rhetoric for what I tend to think it mostly is: rhetoric.. I don't consider this to be the only thing that the Pentagon goes around doing. I am not going to critique my government for doing something that I agree with just because it frequently does things that I disagree with. That would be kind of retarded. I am not "lifting an eyebrow." I am trying to open up a type of discourse on the subject that might help to breed a more educated, perhaps more tolerant, outlook on Iran. Furthermore, I am trying to come to grips myself with the gritty realities of their political situation.
You cannot understand their political situation, because you're American. For that you'd have to fathom the Chinese, Russians and Asians all getting ready to liberate the Americans from their crappy war mongering government by bombing all the major cities in the US and taking over the government and replacing it with one they want. Who will make policy keeping them in mind and by adding to their profits and to make their society more prosperous. By following their rules. And you would have to believe all that with a straight face [without roflmao] and actually think its possible. Especially after they have bombed all the major cities and decided that this is the best they can do. In other words, you cannot fathom Iran because you think that all of the above is a "disagreement" with your government. Thats basically a straight line on the EEG
You don't seem to know anything at all about Iranian politics, and you are being a major creep in a thread where I am trying to develop a more enlightened perspective about what is going on there. Your use of "American" as if it were some kind of ethnic slur is highly offensive, and it makes you sound unintelligent. Right now, dude, I have a bunch of countrymen over here. Their vote has the same worth in our system as mine does, which is very unfortunate because a lot of them think that Iran is nothing but a bunch of psychotic terrorists. It is not that they mean any ill, but they are both very stupid and scared shitless. In a country armed with nuclear weapons and a large military, that is very dangerous. Quite frankly, it has me kind of scared that we are going to end up in another highly embarrassing geopolitical clusterfuck. People like you, who think they know everything, are not helping by being complete assholes toward every American you meet who doesn't march to the same goose-step as you do, so fuck off. I started a thread, here, trying to examine the Green Movement in Iran as exactly what it is to me and most Americans: they are some kind of political movement, in a country that I do not fully understand in the first place, that I have a responsibility to try to figure out before trying to make evaluations or judgments about them. I had a clear-cut, intelligent purpose for this thread. The point was to suggest the idea that, if our government is determined to intermingle in some way with the affairs of another country, maybe we are obligated to come to grips with what is actually going on there, at the concrete level. That means not just painting over it with some ideological mascera. It means trying to learn details about what is going on, the people involved, etc..
If you are truly interested in Irans politics, the best way to learn about it is to go there. Seriously. Just visit. I have known some pretty good Iranians and you'll be surprised at how frank they are about their politics, governance and religion. You'll be quite surprised to hear them, I think The most important thing to understand is that just like George Bush and the KKK do not represent you the President of Iran or any "movement" there is not really representative of Iranians. The major issue I have with anyone discussing Iranian movements is that Iran is basically a harmless country. So they are SOBs to their citizens? Take a number. The Indian government just shot protesters in Kashmir for demonstrating against the oppressive army. Point blank. But it doesn't get 24/7 coverage on CNN. So yeah, I am highly cynical about one person dying in Iran getting so many crocodile tears in the US. Its all just BS to me. Especially after the Goldstone report on the Gaza massacre was shot down. Besides, I lived in the US for five years. I've seen the dumbness up close and personal
My point was Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major civilizations. The first Iranian dynasty formed during the Elamite kingdom in 2800 BCE. The Iranian Medes unified Iran into an empire in 625 BCE.They were succeeded by the Iranian Achaemenid Empire, the Hellenic Seleucid Empire and two subsequent Iranian empires, the Parthians and the Sassanids, before the Muslim conquest in 651 CE. After that Iran Civilization went downhill in just two generations.
You were in a culture that you were not used to. You saw nothing but "dumbness" because you are an intolerant jackass.
Is that why they were the first Mideast country to select a parliamentary form of government in 1905? Note that Iran even at its worst, is still better than any US ally in the region. And as the only country in the world that follows a clerical Sharia government, thats really saying something.
If I understand correctly, then the Basij is kind of a pro-government militia or something. I can't say I can steam up very much sympathy for them. I have a lot more confidence in a genuine police force, especially one that interacts with the community on peaceful terms. In the better American cities, we have a thing called "beat cops," and all they are supposed to do is hang out in troubled neighborhoods, trying to develop an understanding for the people who live in them. What are the Basij? They just sound like hired muscle from what I have heard, and I find it kind of cheesy. Here is a good question. Whose idea was the Basij, anyway, and what did they really mean to accomplish by the idea?
