Move over Patriot Act, U.S. Government to track your cell phone location...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Pasta, Feb 13, 2010.

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Do you think the U.S. government should be allowed to track your cell phone ?

  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  3. Other

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. Pasta Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Back during the Bush administration, they created the Patriot Act to spy on potential terrorist activity. Some people claimed it violated citizens rights, even though it was for monitoring terrorists, not civilians in general.
    Strangely, those same complaints decreased when the Obama administration took over, even when Obama and congress extended the Patriot Act.

    Now the Obama Administration is backing the government tracking of cell phones in the U.S., and this isn't specifically for tracking foreign terrorists !

    Do you think the same people that complained about the Patriot Act (which was focused on terrorists) will complain about this (which is focused on Americans) ? will there be the same outrage ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
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  3. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    No one is forcing you to own a cell phone, right?
     
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  5. Pasta Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Of course not, but tens of millions of people use them because they're more convenient to use. They can even save lives; for example, you're on the road and see a bad car accident. With a cell phone you could report that accident immediately, where as without the cell phone you could not.
     
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  7. Pasta Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    I'm not bumping this thread to bump it, but to make an interesting point.
    This thread has been up now for over a week and only one response.

    If you do a search on the Sciforums for "Patriot Act" you will find many threads bashing the Patriot Act for infringing on civilian rights in the U.S. (even though it was specifically for spying on terrorists), for example this one thread :http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=51630&highlight=patriot

    I get a kick out of what one person wrote just a few years ago :
    "dont worry, the next president (democrat, probably) will undoubtedly be on the exact opposite side of the fence as bush.
    hopefully, some of the damage done to our constitutional rights can be fixed.
    "


    And now, not only has Obama extended the Patriot Act, but he now wants law enforcement agencies to be able to track American civilian cell phone location, and this specifically for tracking American citizens, NOT terrorists.

    Isn't it interesting how the same people that bitched about the Patriot Act have nothing to say or complain about now ?
    Do you think their concern was genuine ? or politically motivated ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  8. Pinwheel Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,424
    You have nothing to fear if you're not a terrorist.
     
  9. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    The same can be said for credit cards, yet the government can get your purchasing history from financial institutions pretty easily. You don't have a right to a cell phone, you don't have a right to a credit card.

    Moreover, do you really think that there's an army of people in dark sunglasses watching every call you make?

    Finally, you DO know that the cell phone company probably already tracks you, as most phones have a safety feature that allows them to do so. Unless you've disabled it on your phone, you are probably already being tracked.

    I agree with the irony that you pointed out: Obama came into office on a wave of change, but he if you look at his policies, he's actually just doing the same stuff that Bush did, in a lot of respects. See, for example, the Bush Tax Cuts, which were extended in Obama's budget for all but the highest tax brackets. Yet two years ago, it was the Bush Tax Cuts that were going to drive the country bankrupt...
     
  10. sandy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    7,926
    The left won't complain because their messiah is doing it. They went nuts when W did it ONLY to track terrorists. It was part of the intelligence that prevented TWO hits on Obama. They should be thanking W but all they did was b*tch.
     
  11. Pasta Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    188
    Of course you don't have a "right" to own a call phone or credit card, does that mean you also don't have a right to privacy of where you are when you own those items ? I don't think so. At the very least, a warrant should have to be issued when there's probable cause that you've committed a crime. But what Obama is trying to do would :

    "In that case, the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts"
     
  12. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    Probably you're right, and I bet there will be warrants involved eventually---I'm just really taking the other side of the argument to take it.

    I would be interested to see what the argument is from the Obama lawyers, though.
     
  13. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    actually i do have to pick you up on one thing ben, there was a situation where a friend of our's BF was threatning suicide. He was doing it by phone so i called ASIS (NOT the australian intelligence services, the South Australian mental health service, same acronim though BTW, one of the stupidist decisions of all time, way to go making the paranoid even MORE paranoid) who said there was little they could do but to call the police for an iminate threat. So we called 000 and though they could trace where I lived (at least where my phone was billed to) automatically they couldnt track where HE was by his mobile (i specifically asked them that because we didnt have an exact location on him).

    Personally the fact that the emergency services CANT track where a phone (even one calling 000) is CURRENTLY located is something which annoyes me. Oviously the tech is there because the next stage of the disaster messaging system will send SMS's to everyone currently located in an area wether thats there billing address or not but the fact they wont open that system up to be used in real time (rather than latter to tell wether a person was in an area during a crime) to track say someone having a heart atack or someone who has just been in an MVA or whatever the emergency is STINKS
     
  14. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    on the topic though i voted "other" because it depends why they want to track it. For instance if the emergency services get a call "help, ive been kidnaped, im in the boot of a car and dont know where i am" then HELL yes they should be able to real time track that phone. The same with "im in the middle of the bush and i think im having a heart atack", or "my friend is threatning sucide and wont tell me where he is". If the aim is to save life in a genuine emergency then nothing should hamper the emergency services in tracking the person in distress and getting assistance to them
     
  15. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,485
    Some members of the CIA told me that all phones less than 2 years old have a GPS in them which still gives off a signal even if the phone is turned off or the battery is dead. While it's an excellent tool for finding the location of people of interest to both the intelligence community and law enforcement community it can also be used to find missing persons, which I think is probably a feature everyone would love to have if they were to be kidnapped or lost in a forest somewhere. But like the original use of the Patriot Act, they aren't going to following every person on earth around all day everyday. They only care if you are a suspect. So if you are you'd better get an old phone and another SIM card, then they can only trace your phone calls.

    On a personal side note though, I have to admit I find it a bit more violating for people to eavesdrop in on my conversations than for them to know my location.
     
  16. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    as far as im awear (at least for Australian mobiles) this is incorrect. Hell i would love it if it was true because if your phone was stolen you report it to the cops, give them the ID number and permission to track it and they get a very easy theft areast. Unfortunatly the best that can be done is to lock the phone for good so that the theves cant connect to the network
     

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