Design work

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by dirgo, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. dirgo Registered Member

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    This question has been around for ions ,and today when science is on the eve of perhaps solving part of this mystery the puzzle of life still seems to have missing pieces will science ever take a step back:shrug: and allow noetic science to join in ,can somehow natural selection and design be as one . It seems to me that everything I read or hear is either on one side or the other why cant both be possible will science eventually come to a point where they just cant reduce any more ,is it really a thought that out of a few chemicals a few gases some electricity and a few million yrs we can explain life !!! Where does life fit into big bang and the greatest question of all was there consciousness there before big bang ?? I kinda like the idea that perhaps a model does exist where both are present can maybe explain the need for extra dimentions ,beyond higgs may be another field non-conputable is it possible that thought has enough mass to explain some of whats missing ???
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2009
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    That's like a dozen separate questions.
     
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  5. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

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    How much time needs to pass before you can call it an ion?
     
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  7. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    So? Answer them all, Spider, you're a smart, young fella!

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    Baron Max
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Um doesn't the comment "solving PART of this" indicate that there are still missing pieces?

    Why should it? It's the most successful system devised so far for answering questions

    Unlikely since "neoteric science" (from what I can gather is classed under that rubric from Google) isn't science.

    The way something can be square and round?

    It's hoped.
    Electricity? Watched Frankenstein too often?

    Life doesn't fit into the Big Bang and what consciousness?

    Go ahead and devise one. Don't forget that it'll be in Pseudoscience.

    Yep, you've already started on the pseudo bit.

    Not really.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2009
  9. dirgo Registered Member

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    Actually its just one big question ,but I seemed to have gone of in many different directions trying to tackle this one ,

    today when science is on the eve of perhaps solving part of this mystery

    This refers to the L.H.C and the search for the higgs or perhaps the neutronium which will give S.S the spot light ,if the higgs is found then perhaps science has found the building blocks of matter ..

    missing pieces

    This is just my personal view point ,a world of only quarks and leptons seems to be missing something ,but in perspective can perhaps explain the 4 dimentional world we know of .


    will science ever take a step back


    What I mean with this is will * impirical* science someday allow the thought that there might be something else ether,orogon a field that allows thought to travel through ,address thought as a form of energy non-kinetic non-potentielle and non-thermal ,so then mass could also be a by product of thought or else we just believe that the mind is only a by product of the brain and remain in a static 4 dimentional world of its and bits ..


    noetic * sorry typo* science

    Thats true its not a science it doesnt talk about waves, particles ,flagellum hmmm I would like science to answer one question explain prodigies ,and of course where consciousness fits in the brain ...


    natural selection and design be as one



    I visited the fermi and talked to some interesting people there ,I read alot about N.S and found this made alot of sense and after 150 yrs as a theory it still stands up strong,but this dualism has been going on forever it seems ,so wouldnt it be just eloquent to unify these two and create a new model where evolution and design fit together ,or do we sit around and wait to see if the L.H.C will perhaps rip a whole in the fabric of space/time and open up a port hole into another dimension ,or create a black hole ,is science somehow trying to create with a machine what was created perhaps by design ???


    science eventually come to a point where they just cant reduce any more


    irreducible complexity ,I know its all about design but evolution seems to have * gaps * and this may be a great way to fill in such certain gaps and perhaps make some sense about complexe systems ,cant imagine that evolution can be responsible for the complexities the way d.n.a creates amino acid chains ...


    ,is it really a thought that out of a few chemicals a few gases some electricity and a few million yrs we can explain life



    I guess I read once ,seems to be the extent of knowledge in some ways what we read ,hear are told some how becomes a part of our belief system and we carry this around as truth and repeat ,of course we all have open minds even the scientists

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    ...Evolution in a nutshell take some basic gases say helium,hydrogen let them sit for say few million years ans voila an elephant some grass the clock on the wall tic-tock ..

    Where does life fit into big bang



    Life has too fit the model of big bang ,there was no life before so is told ,so life emerged from a fusion of particles thats it ????

    greatest question of all was there consciousness there before big bang

    Maybe we should just chuck this one out the window because we just seem to be going around in circles and finding more complex words to describe this phenomena ,ok so its a state of mind which in turn is a by product of the brain ,so the universe has nothing to do with consciousness and we are all seperate and only self in some 4 dimentional world again of its and bits .Could consciousness be infinite ??? Kinda like space ,could consciousness have different dimensions somewhat like shells on the atomic level ,and to go into another level you have to perhaps raise your level of awareness can another dimension be non linear and be attainable to those with such non - impirical skills ??? Seems like most of the west spends alot of time in the it world compared to other places where silence seems to have some answers hmmm


    I guess there are a few questions here ,this is only my collected thoughts on these questions ,so many possibilities aint it great
     
  10. dirgo Registered Member

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    I guess your right I tried to seperate these in a different post

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    ..
     
  11. dirgo Registered Member

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    Its and bits sorry I get all confused sometimes

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  12. dirgo Registered Member

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    long time

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  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    The Higgs might be the basis of mass, but not a building block of matter. A neutronium? I'd check again if I were you. Neutronium isn't a particle it's a state of matter.

    What?

    Why should it?

    I doubt it, since science relies on science, not specious wishful-thinking woo wooism.

    That makes it worse. What evidence is there for a divine intellect? Certainly nothing scientific, therefore science won't get involved with it.

    Er no, it's not a science since there's nothing to observe, nothing to experiment on, nothing in evidence...

    Apart from the fact that that's TWO questions... science IS looking at where consciousness originates, and following that we may know why there are prodigies.

    Nope.

    Science and design don't fit together.

    No.

    Really? Where?

    Has been shown to be in error. Read some more.

    Already answered.

    Already answered: it doesn't.

    Wrong. Life doesn't have to fit into the Big Bang since it appeared long after.

    Why would there be? Where would it be? What "evidence" is there that there was?

    Only self in a 4D world?

    Now you're just babbling incomprehensibly. What if elephants had 5-1/2 legs? What if trees talked French?

    Frankly, no. It's far from great.
    "Thoughts"? More of a ramble based on half-learned rubbish.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2009
  14. dirgo Registered Member

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    Maybe I should do some more reading then ....
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Thought and consciousness are emergent properties of matter, much less fundamental than the forces that shaped the birth of our universe, but destined to have a larger role in the future. Evolution is a property of certain complex systems which also emerge from matter. I do not think that recent experiments regarding fundamental physics will reveal much that challenges philosophical questions about who we are. Simple rules with iteration can create complexity. Knowing those rules isn't the same as knowing the nature of the complexity that emerges from them. You question can be distilled to one: "Will science find God?" I don't think so because there isn't one. The fact that inanimate matter became life with no intervention on the part of a designer is one of the greatest miracles in the cosmos.
     
  16. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

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    Electricity causes chemicals and gases to become eonized, which in turn can create life after millions of years.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    :bravo:
    :worship:
     
  18. dirgo Registered Member

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    The fact that inanimate matter became life with no intervention on the part of a designer is one of the greatest miracles in the cosmos.[/QUOTE]

    A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can be attempted to be explained by divine intervention, and is sometimes associated with a miracle worker.And you were talking about miracles..
     
  19. dirgo Registered Member

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    Life is often portrayed as spontaneously arising from some sort of "primordial soup". There it is ... quiet, tranquil, warm nutrients in a primitive sea, a lightning strike in the distance is imparting the energy of life ... soon life will be emerging to the shores... Hold it, not so fast here! To go from a barren lifeless planet to a one filled with living things, we would have to pass through a number of stages:
    EARLY ATMOSPHERE -
    For starters we need a favorable environment for life to evolve and be sustained.
    SIMPLE ORGANIC MOLECULES -
    We need a means of constructing the building blocks of life.
    LARGE MACRO-MOLECULES (proteins, DNA, RNA, etc.) -
    Some the simple molecules must be assembled into biologically useful large molecules.
    BIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS -
    Biological systems such as energy conversion must be constructed.
    LIVING CELL -
    And finally, all these molecules and systems must be assembled together to form a highly complex living cell.
    When each of these steps are examined scientifically, we see that each has tremendous problems and requires large leaps of faith to believe that they ever happened. To explain the origin of life by non-supernatural means we must have a plausible explanation for each of these steps. An artist's conception of lighting striking a sea of organic soup and then jumping to self-replicating life is woefully inadequate. In fact, it is very misleading.
    Although the origin of life by mechanistic means is routinely taken for granted by the popular press, it is, in reality still a mystery to evolutionary scientists

    So they say
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Not always:
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Miracle

    Such as when people say "It's a miracle I wasn't killed when the car crashed".
    No-one implies divine intervention (or believes it in most cases), simply that it was an extremely unlikely/ notable occurrence.
    And by the way "divine intervention" isn't an explanation, it's a cop-out.
     
  21. dirgo Registered Member

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    One of the greatest features of science is that it works as an algorithmic process of belief revision. No scientific belief being held can be said to be absolutely true, no matter how convincing it is. This is how science compensates for the small amount of faith it requires. All scientific beliefs are wrapped in a protective condition: A scientific belief can only be true if the basic assumptions of science are true, and absolute certainty cannot be obtained due to the problems inherited from subjectivity. All scientific statements have a built in emergency exit! Beliefs are able to change in light of new evidence or ideas..

    Perhaps someday woo wooism may become a part of science
     
  22. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You mean belief (nearly absolute) in things that have no evidence whatsoever?
    Or belief in things simply because one wants them to be true?

    Riiight...

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  23. dirgo Registered Member

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    EVERYTHING in the entire cosmos is nothing but a huge vibrating ball of interconnected infinite energy, which has the ability to communicate into infinity with no regard to space and time, and that what this energy joins together to form is based only on individual THOUGHT!!!

    What is evidence ???
     

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