Obama bowing

[otheadp]

To the Japanese emperor [link (http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/a226040040577e8f8905af2329969dff/obama_bow.jpg?MOD=AJPERES)]
To the Saudi king [link (http://homepage.mac.com/gerardharbison/blog/images/0grovelling.jpg)]
To the Queen of the UK [link (http://quickdailyhits.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama-bowing-to-queen.jpg)] (sort of)


How do the people here feel about this? And WHY do you feel that way?

I see the national media, especially the rightwingers are really mad over this. Mad, embarrassed, annoyed... it makes me wonder if they're being a little cynical and pretend like they're angrier than they really are, just to use this to hurt Obama on other issues.

Some say "this isn't the decorum or custom, or the official way to bow, so Obama embarrassed himself and the US for not knowing that... for not bowing correctly, in addition to bowing in the first place. Others say "no US president EVER bowed to anyone", and even cite a NYTimes op-ed piece in 1994 trashtalking Bill Clinton for -almost- bowing to some foreign world leader.

I think these 3 reasons are irrelevant.

I think that Americans don't realize how much they are not liked outside their borders, even by their allies and the 'street' of their allied countries. There is a delimitation going on, a duality, whereby people LOVE America, appreciate it, respect it, and at the same time hate its people. Most of it has to do with the perception of arrogance. From an individual level where American tourists are the loudest, rudest and most spoiled, to the political level where Americans want special treatment and think their shit don't stink. Also, the military interventions all over the globe. I'm not saying all Americans are like that - obviously there are different people. What I'm saying is that this is the perception that many people have of America and Americans. That is how the concept of America sits in peoples' brains. They don't follow the entire spectrum of news about the States and are really unfamiliar with it. They have only a limited amount of information.

So when some Joe Blow person from China or India or Russia or even Canada or England sees these gestures on TV, even if these gestures incorrect according to official custom, they think "hey, America is changing ... maybe they AREN'T arrogant bastards any more". I'm not saying Americans will all change thanks to Obama bowing, but the perception of Americans in foreigners' minds will change.

These bows don't make American military or economic power any weaker. It only makes others think more highly of you. It's showing respect and courtesy, and gesturing that "I'd like to show more respect to you, even if I'm stronger than you, even if I'm not doing it the right way".

These gestures don't cost much, if anything at all, but can reap big dividends. Maybe if Obama keeps it up, American tourists won't have to stick the Canadian flag on their backpacks when travelling.

Just saying...

What do you think?

[James R]

I agree with you otheadp - probably almost for the first time ever.

[fedr808]

oth, what he is doing is making peace with the world, showing the world our best foot forward.

He is not bowing to them and letting them command him, anyone that says otherwise is an idiot of the highest calibre.

Right wingists have no right to be pissed, for the last 8 years they elected and just tried to elect again people that have been flipping the rest of the world off with both hands.

[fedr808]

These bows don't make American military or economic power any weaker. It only makes others think more highly of you. It's showing respect and courtesy, and gesturing that "I'd like to show more respect to you, even if I'm stronger than you, even if I'm not doing it the right way".

These gestures don't cost much, if anything at all, but can reap big dividends. Maybe if Obama keeps it up, American tourists won't have to stick the Canadian flag on their backpacks when travelling.

Just saying...

What do you think?

Thank you otheadp, I think you frased that extremely well, hell in my english class we have a forum just for my class and im assigned to the foreign policy, if your okay with it, i wish I could copy and paste that as an article because it is really pretty f ing good, send that to a newspaper editor.

I totally agree with you, he is being humble, something that cannot be said of our recent politicions.

[Orleander]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Remember when Bush held hands with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0426/csmimg/04-26_DU.jpg

[CutsieMarie89]

Wouldn't it be rude not to? I know Americans would be insulted if you held out your hand to someone as a formal greeting and they just ignored it. The best way to get people to hate you is to act like you're better than them. Yet somehow a humble "gesture of respect" has been turned into "complete subservience". I agree with the OP

[Ganymede]

i agree with you otheadp - probably almost for the first time ever.

ditto

[mike47]

If I am a president I will certainly never bow to anyone including the emperors, the kings, the queens, the Popes.....etc. I just find it ridiculous to do these kinds of political protocols . I usually shake hands with both men and women . I hate it when dumb asses like Sarkozy keep on kissing women .
I do not want him to kiss my daughter or my gf or my wife .

[mike47]

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Remember when Bush held hands with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0426/csmimg/04-26_DU.jpg
When are they getting married ?!!.

[joepistole]

ditto

mega ditto

[Orleander]

If I am a president I will certainly never bow to anyone including the emperors, the kings, the queens, the Popes.....etc. I just find it ridiculous to do these kinds of political protocols . I usually shake hands with both men and women . I hate it when dumb asses like Sarkozy keep on kissing women .
I do not want him to kiss my daughter or my gf or my wife .

LOL, and I don't shake hands. I hate touching people I don't know. I would so much rather bow or curtsy.

[ElectricFetus]

I agree with you otheadp - probably almost for the first time ever.

I forth that! Wow otheadp I never figured you could be like this... you must be high.


damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Remember when Bush held hands with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0426/csmimg/04-26_DU.jpg

Held hands?, is that all you remember?

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_kiss.jpg

[Repo Man]

I forth that! Wow otheadp I never figured you could be like this... you must be high.

Maybe someone stole his password?

I think that showing respect, and a willingness to genuinely consider the opinions of our allies is a very good thing. Much was made of the photo of Obama bowing to King Abdullah - even though there are photos of GWB (see above) holding his hand, and even kissing him! Those condemning Obama for bowing are only showing their blatant hypocrisy. We need more international cooperation, not less.

[ElectricFetus]

Maybe someone stole his password?

I think that showing respect, and a willingness to genuinely consider the opinions of our allies is a very good thing. Much was made of the photo of Obama bowing to King Abdullah - even though there are photos of GWB (see above) holding his hand, and even kissing him! Those condemning Obama for bowing are only showing their blatant hypocrisy. We need more international cooperation, not less.

There only showing hypocrisy if they did not agree with Bush providing Abdullah with man love... which we got to assume must be most of them.

On further note I have listed 3 possibilities for otheadp behavior.
1. Morphine directly injected into his cold black heart, and thus it 3 sizes too large.
2. Wildly great sex with a women (or men) fully verse in the Kama Sutra.
3. He been wearing a plastic bag over his head.

[Repo Man]

There only showing hypocrisy if they did not agree with Bush providing Abdullah with man love... which we got to assume must be most of them.

I never heard a peep about it at the time. And on forums where I've seen Obama's bow to Abdullah mentioned, the silence is deafening when Bush's hand holding and kissing is brought up.

[S.A.M.]

The bowing by itself means nothing, people would take him more seriously if he took his head out of Israel's ass

I doubt anyone anywhere is still thinking Obama is "different"

[ElectricFetus]

The bowing by itself means nothing, people would take him more seriously if he took his head out of Israel's ass

I doubt anyone anywhere is still thinking Obama is "different"

Obama has stood up to Israel more then most US presidents, surely not enough for you but something at least.

[mike47]

Obama has stood up to Israel more then most US presidents, surely not enough for you but something at least.

I do not see that .
The neo cons, the Zionists and Israel still have the last word when it comes to the US foreign policy .

[otheadp]

Thank you otheadp, I think you frased that extremely well, hell in my english class we have a forum just for my class and im assigned to the foreign policy, if your okay with it, i wish I could copy and paste that as an article because it is really pretty f ing good, send that to a newspaper editor.

I totally agree with you, he is being humble, something that cannot be said of our recent politicions.

Sure, no problem :) I'm flattered

[S.A.M.]

Obama has stood up to Israel more then most US presidents, surely not enough for you but something at least.

In words perhaps, but not in deed. What differences do you see in any policy matters regarding any aspect of American policy on any issue where Obama has done something different?

And I'm not asking about Israel, but ALL US policy matters.

[otheadp]

To those who think I'm high or someone stole my password --- I'm flattered too :) lol

Maybe your perception of me was wrong all this time.

Re: Bush and Abdullah, first of all, that pic with them kissing is clearly photoshopped. And poorly too. As for the holding hands part, exactly - it's showing respect... more like friendship than respect. It doesn't look as much subservient as it looks simply gay :) But yeah, it's pretty innocent.

I'd say Obama's bows are "worse", but they are not hurting America. In terms of behind the scenes politics, the real dealing and scheming, it won't make much of a difference. It's still cost/benefit, carrots/sticks. It only makes a difference in the eyes of regular people world wide who see this and just might be convinced that there is a "positive change" happening in America.

[otheadp]

In words perhaps, but not in deed. What differences do you see in any policy matters regarding any aspect of American policy on any issue where Obama has done something different?

And I'm not asking about Israel, but ALL US policy matters.

All Israel, all the time, 24/7.

Just give it up and stop bringing up Israel every topic. Mods, please erase her crap.

[joepistole]

I thing showing a little respect to others goes along way, especially in international relations. I am rather happy with Obama bowing to other heads of state.

I would rather Obama give away the small things and win on the big things. The things that are important to the people of the US. For example, I would much rather have Obama bow to a leader in China than pay China 200 million dollars to get back an American plane they damaged in international airspace as did george II.

[firdroirich]

Thats what leaders do - they set an example. There is nothing wrong with civility and manners, in higher circles it's unthinkable not to have table manners, conversational manners.....and so on.
I thought this was obvious, but look at the manners of the people complaining and you might see why.

[Orleander]

...I hate it when dumb asses like Sarkozy keep on kissing women .
I do not want him to kiss my daughter or my gf or my wife .

??? He's not having sex with them. Its custom to kiss both cheeks of everyone, not just women.

[nirakar]

Obama has stood up to Israel more then most US presidents, surely not enough for you but something at least.

Obama has not stood up to Israel at all. I believe that Bush senior came closer to standing up to Israel than the other recent presidents have including Obama.

[nirakar]

How do the people here feel about this? And WHY do you feel that way?

I see the national media, especially the rightwingers are really mad over this. Mad, embarrassed, annoyed... it makes me wonder if they're being a little cynical and pretend like they're angrier than they really are, just to use this to hurt Obama on other issues.




Anything that Obama does or says can and will be used against him. It is sort of like a habit. It is like going to a football game and yelling at the refs when a call goes against your team even if the call is correct. Hurray for our side; boo the other side.

It is also good politics to keep the criticisms against Obama flowing and it gets ratings with certain media audiences to keep feigning outrage against Obama. We have these safe little lives and rooting for our team and acting outraged against the other guys somehow does something for us emotionally.

[ElectricFetus]

Obama has not stood up to Israel at all. I believe that Bush senior came closer to standing up to Israel than the other recent presidents have including Obama.

Obama has called for removing settlers more then Bush did, jr that is, Bush Sr. was president a little longer then obama, I will believe you after obama first/only term.

[Baron Max]

Obama has not stood up to Israel at all. ...

Why do you think President Osama should "stand up to" Israel at all? Do you approve of nations interfering with the affairs of other nations of the world?

Do you approve of the USA "interfering" in the affairs of Iraq and Afghanistan? If not, then how can you suggest that Osama interfere with Israel?

Personally, I think the USA should provide Israel with portable rockets so Israeli civilian volunteers could fire those rockets into Gaza every few days ....just to see how the Hamas people like it. :D

Baron Max

[Michael]

In Japan bowing is the equivalent of a handshake.


I didn't know there was a USA official governmental way to bow? I'm pretty sure John Wayne bowed in "The Barbarian and the Geisha" (1950s movie of prewar Japan). Give THAT to the conservatives and let them suck on it for awhile. I mean, if The Duke did it... then it must be OK right? I wonder if The Duke did it like Obama?

[joepistole]

Why do you think President Osama should "stand up to" Israel at all? Do you approve of nations interfering with the affairs of other nations of the world?

Do you approve of the USA "interfering" in the affairs of Iraq and Afghanistan? If not, then how can you suggest that Osama interfere with Israel?

Personally, I think the USA should provide Israel with portable rockets so Israeli civilian volunteers could fire those rockets into Gaza every few days ....just to see how the Hamas people like it. :D

Baron Max

I think you are a little confused Baron, Osama is the terrorist lad. Our president is President Obama.