Sexualisation of Adolessants

[Asguard]

I was lisserning to Mat and Dave this morning and they were discussing the Kyle's stupid move to hook up a 14 year old to a lie detector and have her mother ask her about her sexual experiances. This lead the girl to break down on air and reveal she had been raped (which the mother already knew about)

Now i fully agree this was stupid and wrong. Even if the girl HADNT been raped there is apsolutly no right for a parent to dig around into an adolessants sexuality, especially on a radio show (is that clear enough for everyone?)

However they were interviewing this author who wrote a book called "the sexualisation of girls" (or something like that, i cant rember the exact title im sorry) who was part of some conferance on the issue and she said "young girls paticually in this age group who are sexually active come from broken homes and have issues of drug and achole abuse"

Coincidently the fourth National Survey of Students Sexual Health came out today as well (or at least was discussed on ABC radio's AM programe today) and found that 1/3 of year 10 students and 1/2 of year 12 students have had sex.

There for she is suggesting that 1/3 of year 10 students come from broken homes and\or have drug and achole problems which i find to be unlikly. This is because these figures dont match up with the infomation given in Mental health topic at uni, health psycology topic at uni and the sociology and epidemology topic at uni and all of these use resorces like the institute of health and wealfare and the ABS to get there stats. They suggest that around 10-20% of adolessants have a mental illness which would mean that every one of those at most 20% are sexually active because of that illness.

Now the fourth National Survey of Students Sexual Health DID find that 1/3 of students had experianced unwanted sex but that doesnt stipulate that 1/3 had been raped. Most of us would have had sex when we wernt in the mood at some point in our life and though the increase is concerning it certainly doesnt justify the womens comments that all sexual activity for adolessant girls is wrong or that adolessants shouldnt be able to control there own sexuality (the way she phrased it was that "agency" for adolessants was wrong).

Sadly this seems to be another example of the demonisation of sexuality especially youth sexuality which is one of the main reasons for the increase in "risky sex" (ie sex without protection any form of protection and sex with only oral contraception in relationships under 1 year) which is increasing amonst adolessants

[Asguard]

oh there doesnt apear to be a transcript from Mat and Dave's programe (i will check again latter) but the one for the NSSSH will be up soon here http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2009/s2645226.htm

Further more i will try to dig up the assignment i did last semester on this issue and post some of the figures from the last NSSSH

[visceral_instinct]

I agree too many people think young people's sexuality is their business.

So long as they're SAFE people should keep their damn noses out.

[Asguard]

VI have you ever come across work by the sociologist "Goffman"?

His work on stigma is rather interesting (interlectually anyway, its also quite sad)

It aplies quite easerly to youth sexuality, female sexuality, HIV\AIDs, Homosexuality ect.

[WillNever]

double

[WillNever]

Uhm. What kids do outside the home IS a parent's business. A parent has both the right and responsibility to find out if their kid is getting their nose dirty in some shit they shouldn't be dealing with, like drugs, drinking, unprotected sex, and the like.

Adolescents are not adults. They are not independent. When they move out of their parents home, that is when it is no one's business but their own.

[visceral_instinct]

Uhm. What kids do outside the home IS a parent's business. A parent has both the right and responsibility to find out if their kid is getting their nose dirty in some shit they shouldn't be dealing with, like drugs, drinking, unprotected sex, and the like.

Adolescents are not adults. They are not independent. When they move out of their parents home, that is when it is no one's business but their own.

So it's a parent's right to know what they do with their genitalia?

Sure, they are not fullt adults. But they are their own people. They need guidance, and certain boundaries like anyone else. But not invasions into what they do privately.

[Asguard]

wrong, legally wrong too actually. We abolished aranged marriage years ago for one and even in medical legislation the stated goal is for parents to have limited control until the "child" has the cognative ability to make those decisions for themselves. For instace the consent act states that a child may give (or withhold) consent to a medical procidure without parental consent if the treating physition is satisifyed that the child can act in there own best intrests. Once the child hits 16 that becomes automatic except if they are under an order of guardianship granted by the courts because of mental incapacity

Further more that control is limited by the courts. For instance a child can be treated against the wishes of the parent if 2 doctors stated opinion is that the treatment is medically nessary. To look at the oposite side a) there is no requirement for a doctor to give a treatment they dont feel is nessary anyway b) for certain procidures (like sterilisation of a mentally handicaped child) the guardianship boards permission (or the family court, it varries from state to state) is required before the treatment can be authorised.

[WillNever]

The medical stuff is due to parents not giving adequate attention to the medical needs of their kids.

The government makes no laws that respect an adolescent's right to privacy, asguard, and since that is the subject of this thread, that's what we're talking about. Adolescents have no legal right to privacy.

[Alien Cockroach]

Umm, speak for yourself, people. If I had kids, they would wear a chastity belt until they were old enough to apply for social security unless certain conditions had been satisfied. It's not a matter of them being "ready." It's a matter of paternal protectiveness. This is natural to my behavior, and I will not be criticized for it. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't let some Joe Phony come within two miles of her, and she would be a blackbelt or a brownbelt in every self-defense technique in the book before she could swallow solid foods. If I had a son, he would know respect for women and homos better than he knows his reflection in the mirror, and he would know that loose girls are all infested with the Clap before he could crawl.

[WillNever]

So it's a parent's right to know what they do with their genitalia?

Sure, they are not fullt adults. But they are their own people. They need guidance, and certain boundaries like anyone else. But not invasions into what they do privately.

Like what sort of private things? Drugs? Drinking? Unprotected sex? You think parents shouldn't know if their kids are doing those things?

Gimme a break.

[Asguard]

actually your wrong there.

Take for instance a 14 year old who attends a GP in order to get the pill. The doctor assess her, explaines the potentual side effects and risks and makes a determination that she understands the risks and benifts of the treatment and can act in her own best interests. He there for is alowed to perscribe the pill and does so. As part of that determination he is now bound by pt confidentuality because once someone has been determined able to to handle there own medical treatments they have a right to privacy (actually they always do its just that while the parents are treating they are included in that disclosure, once the are judged unnessary they lose that access)

The same goes for getting an abortion. It becomes illegal for the doctor to phone the parents and tell them that there child got an abortion

Mental illness is even MORE secrect in that the doctor maybe able to tell the parents "your child has depression" if they are judged to be unable to self treat but they cant go into detail on what the child said.

Youth help line is another service which is goverment funded which is compleatly confidential.


There are innumberable goverment services which are unable to report back to parents, nor should they be able to.

[WillNever]

Asguard, please show me a law on the books that states that parents are allowed to know the things that their children are getting into outside of the home.

[Asguard]

what things?
there is no right to privacy PERIOD except in certain cirumstances so what are you refering to?

If i happen to see you smoking weed, fucking or whatever and tell your parent, your child, your wife what law prevents that? NONE. However if you were my patient and i disclose that to anyone THEN im up for action both proffessionaly and legally.

[WillNever]

Your point being? We already know doctors must be confidential. The point is that parents do have a right to know when their kids are doing drugs, drinking, having unprotected sex, and the like. Those are bad things, not good things, and kids shouldn't be doing them. Parents should know when they are.

Unsupervised kids are a bad thing, not a good thing.

[Asguard]

right, because if a child doesnt trust there parent they will feel SO comfertable aproching them when they DO have a problem (depression, rape, ect)

Im sure this girl has all the confidence in the world in the mother to surport her right?

The point is that you are wrong, there is no requirement to tell the parents anything and alot of times where disclosure is illegal. There ARE some cases where its required to report it to the Department of Families and Communities (or equivlant, DOCS ect) like child abuse but that is just about the only requirment for disclosure there is.

its actually something i have been trying to pound through some very thick heads at St John's that if a person is 16 (and younger as i stated above) its illegal to inform the parents of medical treatment provided to them or anything said while in a theripudic realtionship

[Bells]

right, because if a child doesnt trust there parent they will feel SO comfertable aproching them when they DO have a problem (depression, rape, ect)

Im sure this girl has all the confidence in the world in the mother to surport her right?

The point is that you are wrong, there is no requirement to tell the parents anything and alot of times where disclosure is illegal. There ARE some cases where its required to report it to the Department of Families and Communities (or equivlant, DOCS ect) like child abuse but that is just about the only requirment for disclosure there is.

its actually something i have been trying to pound through some very thick heads at St John's that if a person is 16 (and younger as i stated above) its illegal to inform the parents of medical treatment provided to them or anything said while in a theripudic realtionship

You're missing a vital point.

Parents want to be kept informed/aware of what their children are doing or up to. And to do that, parents want their children to share with them. Be able to talk to them and be open about what they are doing.

As a parent, I want to know if and when my children (when they reach that age of course) so much as think about becoming sexually active. As a parent, it is my role to guide them in the right path and if I think they are too young, then I will hopefully be able to guide them down the 'wait till you're older' path. Of course, ideally, they would never have sex (nervous cackle), because well, they're my babies.:bawl: But being realistic, I would expect that they would wait until they were ready and that when they did do "it", they'd be careful and use precautions.

Would I snoop in their rooms to see if they were doing drugs or something that could harm them? Yes. Absolutely. If I suspected that either of my kids were snorting, ingesting or injecting illegal substances into their bodies, I'd be checking their rooms. And if I found hard drugs (eg. heroin, crack, ecstacy, etc), then I'd take it from there and see about rehab if it was needed, etc.

My role as their parent is to ensure they remain safe and healthy. And if I need to snoop in their rooms to do so, then yeah, I'd have no problems with that. If they became sexually active as teenagers, then it is my role as their parent to make sure they are careful and ready.

[Asguard]

bells how much benifit would you expect to see from that?

You have probably worked with offenders who have been sentanced to drug and achole rehab. Care to guess what the success rates are for it when the person is forced to go rather than seeking help themselves?

Partually this is because most drug and achole abuse is an attempt by the person to self medicate for a mental illness and throwing them into a rehab center wont fix that but that isnt the whole story. You can take a person who has an altered GCS because of sepsis, strap them to the bed and pump them full of antibotics and they will get better but if the problem is mental illness do you think that aproch will really work?

Further more how do you think your children would react when you confrunted them with there little 1 gram of weed or pack of smokes or empty beer botle?

do you think that would improve or damage your relationship?

On the sex specifically i am not saying encoraging safe sex is wrong, what im saying is that the parents who find out there child (mostly girls this happens to) are having sex and then say "i forbid you to see this person again" or "your grounded" ect. What do you think that adolessant is going to do? and what do you think they are going to do if down the track they get into a situation they cant handle (like they get raped, there drink is spiked or they fall pregant or get a girl pregant ect). Do you think they will feel comfertable comming to you?

this isnt an achademic argument, its something im watching my partner go through right now. Her little sister (15) probably has cervical cancer. Now her parents might have been able to help her but unfortantly she wasnt living with them at the time (she is back with her dad now but her mum has had to go overseas for work for 2 years) she was living with relitives in sydney because she wanted to be a hair dresser and her relitive was training her. Not someone she could go to for help

[Alien Cockroach]

right, because if a child doesnt trust there parent they will feel SO comfertable aproching them when they DO have a problem (depression, rape, ect)This is why you should never lose your temper with a child. It is a sign of mental weakness, and the child knows it. To that child, you are legislature, president, judge, and jury. Well, think about how you would feel if you were sitting in front of a judge, and the judge broke down into a fit of temper. I'd feel embarrassed to know that he/she works in my district, and a congressman somewhere would have one more letter to read.

Trust is the only discipline that works. A lot of people don't know what trust is. Trust is that my little, black lab would jump off a cliff in the dark if I told her to, and I never had to lay a hand on her to put that trust there. Perhaps a better word for some people would be "faith." Anything I did would be justified in the eyes of that dog because I taught her to believe in me. I've had a few dogs in the past. I've yelled at some, and I've still got a big, ugly scar on my thumb from the one I was stupid enough to raise my hand against. This is the best-behaved animal I've had, so I'm pretty sure I'm on to something in saying this: if you have good control over yourself, an animal is going to be a lot more confident in you. I bet the same thing applies to children.

I, for one, would want to make sure my children understood the importance of courtship. Courtship brings dignity to themselves, their families, and their communities. If they have truly come to understand that principle and defend it, then who they have sex with or how is their business at that point. The thing is, telling parents not to keep an eye on their kids is like telling a bear in the woods not to chase you away from her cubs. You can blather all you want, but all she'll do is tear your face off. In the end, it just makes you look stupid and very badly disfigured.

[Asguard]

yawn, your kidding right?

courtship?

[Bells]

bells how much benifit would you expect to see from that?


No idea. Worked with me and I know that every child is different.

I would rather my children tell me than I have to find out about it.

You have probably worked with offenders who have been sentanced to drug and achole rehab. Care to guess what the success rates are for it when the person is forced to go rather than seeking help themselves?
It can and does work. You're talking about offenders going through rehab facilities designed for offenders. The level of care in prisons or such facilities are not exactly the best, so yes, they do have low success rates.

Drugs and alcohol is not something I will tolerate in my kids. That is the mega line for me. I have seen first hand what it does to people and how it ruins their lives. And if they were ever so unfortunate enough to slip into that kind of thing, then there will be major issues and they will come to learn the errors of their ways as I either scare the bejesus out of them and/or drag them into rehab by their hair if need be. I saw my aunt deal with a drug addicted teenager and she took the softly soft approach with him. She had the whole 'let him choose to go into rehab'. He was dead by the time he was 25.

Partually this is because most drug and achole abuse is an attempt by the person to self medicate for a mental illness and throwing them into a rehab center wont fix that but that isnt the whole story. You can take a person who has an altered GCS because of sepsis, strap them to the bed and pump them full of antibotics and they will get better but if the problem is mental illness do you think that aproch will really work?
Short of chaining them up in the garage you mean?

No Asguard, if my kids ever got into that kind of thing, there would be therapy and rehab in one. There would be a hell of a lot of family together time (also has the added benefit of their not being able to sneak away to do it again) and I'd be sticking to them like glue to keep an eye on them. Trust is earned and if my kids lose my trust, it is up to them to make sure they get it back and to do so, they need to work for it. I can assure you, if either of my kids came home stoned and/or drunk, I wouldn't carry on as if it was no big deal. That's the rule in my household. We lead by example. We don't drink, aside from an occasional glass of wine (very rarely) and we don't do drugs at all. And if they take that route, then they will suffer the consequences.

Further more how do you think your children would react when you confrunted them with there little 1 gram of weed or pack of smokes or empty beer botle?

With terror by the time my husband and I would be through with them.

:)

do you think that would improve or damage your relationship?
Depends on how it's handled Asguard.

On the sex specifically i am not saying encoraging safe sex is wrong, what im saying is that the parents who find out there child (mostly girls this happens to) are having sex and then say "i forbid you to see this person again" or "your grounded" ect. What do you think that adolessant is going to do? and what do you think they are going to do if down the track they get into a situation they cant handle (like they get raped, there drink is spiked or they fall pregant or get a girl pregant ect). Do you think they will feel comfertable comming to you?
I would hope that my children would always feel comfortable coming to me or their father. But if a parent(s) think that their children are too young to be having sex, then yeah, they are well within their rights to crack down. I'm sorry, but if my son is 12 and he tells me or I find out he's having sex, I'll be cracking down.

There needs to be a balance. It can't all just be lovey dovey and rose petals with one's children. As nice and ideal as that would be, sometimes you do have to crack down.

You need to realise something. When you become a parent, you are a parent. That means that it is not my role to be my child's "friend". It is my role to parent that child to the best of my abilities and beyond and if it means setting strict ground rules, then that's what my kids will get. For example, the current strict ground rule is no hitting and no biting. That is standard. Along with that comes the "do not run your brother over with your bike" strict rule. Doing so results in the bike being taken away for a week or more. 3 strikes and no more bike ever. :)

this isnt an achademic argument, its something im watching my partner go through right now. Her little sister (15) probably has cervical cancer. Now her parents might have been able to help her but unfortantly she wasnt living with them at the time (she is back with her dad now but her mum has had to go overseas for work for 2 years) she was living with relitives in sydney because she wanted to be a hair dresser and her relitive was training her. Not someone she could go to for help
15 is too young to be getting cervical cancer. The poor thing!

She should have been able to go to her relatives and/or call her family and friends for help.

[Baron Max]

And if something bad happens to one of these underage kids, the very first thing that y'all do is post condemnation of the parents! "Where were the parents?!" "Why didn't the parent stop the kid?!"

Kids are deemed "underage" for the simple fact that most can't make proper decisions. And yet some of y'all here think kids as young as 8-10 should be talked to as if they were adults, and that they should have total freedoms.

Baron Max

[Alien Cockroach]

Drugs and alcohol is not something I will tolerate in my kids. That is the mega line for me. I have seen first hand what it does to people and how it ruins their lives. And if they were ever so unfortunate enough to slip into that kind of thing, then there will be major issues and they will come to learn the errors of their ways as I either scare the bejesus out of them and/or drag them into rehab by their hair if need be. I saw my aunt deal with a drug addicted teenager and she took the softly soft approach with him. She had the whole 'let him choose to go into rehab'. He was dead by the time he was 25.I hope someone would do that for me. It's not a matter of being "soft." It's a matter of knowing what drug cravings do to a person's mind. They skew everything, and you're not thinking right. Going through drug cravings is the most screwed-up, confusing thing that can happen to a person.

With terror by the time my husband and I would be through with them.Over a pack of smokes!? Mom!

Actually, I used to be really attention-deficit due to the autism, and I still kind of am. However, when Mom and Dad put me on one of those old amphetamine pill regimes, it just made me more high-strung than I already was. The SSRI pills made me psychotic, and the only reason I can speak in any directed way now is nicotine. Otherwise, my speech nothing else but a bunch of thoughtstream digressions, and I can be obsessive to very near the point of schizotypy. It's no coincidence that both of my parents smoked, except during pregnancy.

Strictly because of the fact that nicotine is so useful, for people like me, some of us can end up hooked on it before we're old enough to understand what we're doing to ourselves. Look for signs of ADHD because that's a real risk factor for smoking. Come to think of it, so is OCD, which is often characterized in children by an intense preoccupation with fantasy. Some doctors now may be using nicotine to treat these illnesses, but kids shouldn't use drugs unless a doctor and their parents tell them to. I think this really applies to nicotine because we still don't fully understand it.

You need to realise something. When you become a parent, you are a parent. That means that it is not my role to be my child's "friend".Yes. My father made that mistake with my brother, and he ended up in trouble with the law and not really applying himself in school. Right now, my brother is feeling really sorry for himself because he can't do well enough on the ASVAB to get into the Coast Guard. It was a life dream for the boy, and it was denied him. Even though I used to hate him, it was like a knife in my heart when I found that out because one thing I have a deep reverence for is a person's dreams. I've been more supportive of him since and a little kinder. You are right: a child is not your friend. A child is your responsibility. If we could truly fully comprehend how heavy that responsibility is, it might drive us mad. There are some things that humans were not meant to understand, merely to act upon.

[Orleander]

I was lisserning to Mat and Dave this morning and they were discussing the Kyle's stupid move to hook up a 14 year old to a lie detector and have her mother ask her about her sexual experiances. This lead the girl to break down on air and reveal she had been raped (which the mother already knew about)

Now i fully agree this was stupid and wrong. Even if the girl HADNT been raped there is apsolutly no right for a parent to dig around into an adolessants sexuality, especially on a radio show (is that clear enough for everyone?)...

a parent has every right to know of their child's sexual activity. A parent has no right to publicly broadcast it. Was the mother's intention to shame her child for the rape?

[Orleander]

I agree too many people think young people's sexuality is their business.

So long as they're SAFE people should keep their damn noses out.

but how is a parent to know its safe unless they make it their business?

[lucifers angel]

So it's a parent's right to know what they do with their genitalia?
Sure, they are not fullt adults. But they are their own people. They need guidance, and certain boundaries like anyone else. But not invasions into what they do privately.


Hi VI, Hope your ok today!

Yes it is a perants right to know what happens to a childs genitalia, say for example a 14yr old girl goes for a vaginal piercing, wouldnt you want to know if it was ok? I would take her to a doctor and ask the female doctor to see if its ok and not harmful to my child,

Yes they are they're own people, but they need help at times to know what is right and wrong, my daughter is 15 and we have the safe sex chat a lot, and she knows that if anything happens to her she can come to me and we can then deal with the situation

[Alien Cockroach]

Read my bold:

And it's not just a visceral instinct for parents to be concerned about their children's lives, but they are really helping to protect their children's rights. When you are young, you are too immature to fully understand the meaning or social consequences of certain things, even a remarkably intelligent, young woman like yourself, VI. What if some phony were to enter your life and take advantage of your innocence? Intelligence is no defense against the phonies and turdmonkeys out there. You really have to experience these bastards first-hand to comprehend how evil they are. Once you do, here is what it will do to improve your life: shit. You just feel dirty, and it makes the whole world look dirty. Those are the kinds of people that your parents and other guardians in your life are trying to keep out of your life. Even if they aren't perfect human beings themselves, parents have an animal instinct to defend their offspring. Going against it is like arguing with a wolverine who thinks you're intent on her cubs. It doesn't get you anywhere, and it's kind of dangerous.

[Orleander]

Hi VI, Hope your ok today!

Yes it is a perants right to know what happens to a childs genitalia, say for example a 14yr old girl goes for a vaginal piercing, wouldnt you want to know if it was ok? I would take her to a doctor and ask the female doctor to see if its ok and not harmful to my child, ...

:eek: so if a doctor said it was safe, you would let your 14 yr old get genital piercing?

[Nasor]

I was lisserning to Mat and Dave this morning and they were discussing the Kyle's stupid move to hook up a 14 year old to a lie detector and have her mother ask her about her sexual experiances.
Somewhat off topic, but lie detectors are basically voodoo anyway; their only real use is intimidating people who are fooled into thinking they work, which seems to be exactly what happened here. Every time lie detectors are scientifically tested in a controlled setting, they're found to be crap.

[lucifers angel]

:eek: so if a doctor said it was safe, you would let your 14 yr old get genital piercing?


i would be pissed off and upset but there isnt a lot i could do about it, so yeah i would let her get this piercing out off her system (she's a child, children do the damndest things at times) and then i would make sure it is removed safely

[Alien Cockroach]

i would be pissed off and upset but there isnt a lot i could do about it, so yeah i would let her get this piercing out off her system (she's a child, children do the damndest things at times) and then i would make sure it is removed safelyI think that's extremely mature of you, LA. Most parents would be too squeamish to let something like this play itself out, even though any harm that came of it wouldn't be life-altering. My own parents, who did the best job with the child in question out of the three of us, let my sister go through her phases like that, and they guided her through them instead of inhibiting her creativity. Right now, she is the most mature person I know. She was in an assistive management position at 19 or 20 while attending college, and she is starting this year on a career targeted at corporate offices. Me? I'm the moody, eccentric, creative one.

[lucifers angel]

I think that's extremely mature of you, LA. Most parents would be too squeamish to let something like this play itself out, even though any harm that came of it wouldn't be life-altering. My own parents, who did the best job with the child in question out of the three of us, let my sister go through her phases like that, and they guided her through them instead of inhibiting her creativity. Right now, she is the most mature person I know. She was in an assistive management position at 19 or 20 while attending college, and she is starting this year on a career targeted at corporate offices. Me? I'm the moody, eccentric, creative one.

thankyou, i think if you push children into doingwhat YOU want them to do they will rebel against you more and more, i know my daughter (like many kids) she has her little phases in life, she's 15 now and wants a tounge piercing and i have said yes, because i know six weeks later it will be removed

[Alien Cockroach]

thankyou, i think if you push children into doingwhat YOU want them to do they will rebel against you more and more, i know my daughter (like many kids) she has her little phases in life, she's 15 now and wants a tounge piercing and i have said yes, because i know six weeks later it will be removedOh, about every month, I would always hear my sister saying, "I can't believe I was soooo stupid. Eww." Parentally supervised fucking-up builds common sense if you ask me.

[Buffalo Roam]

So it's a parent's right to know what they do with their genitalia?

Sure, they are not fullt adults. But they are their own people. They need guidance, and certain boundaries like anyone else. But not invasions into what they do privately.

When the Parents in the end, have to deal with the fall out from underage sex, it dammed well is their business what their children do with their Genitalia, and who they are doing it with.

[visceral_instinct]

Like what sort of private things? Drugs? Drinking? Unprotected sex? You think parents shouldn't know if their kids are doing those things?

Gimme a break.

Which was exactly why I said CERTAIN BOUNDARIES. Read my post. They shouldn't be allowed to do literally anything, but they should have privacy within reason.

If I want to be nocturnal, interact only with dogs outside of working and other necessary social activity, talk to myself and make repetitive movements constantly, that's my right.

If I develop schizophrenia and try and rip my own eyes out of their sockets, yes, society has the right to step in and take away my self control.

Do you see the difference there between "right to privacy" and "right to do what you like no matter what"?

The government makes no laws that respect an adolescent's right to privacy, asguard, and since that is the subject of this thread, that's what we're talking about. Adolescents have no legal right to privacy.

So if my mother had forbade me as a 17 year old to pee in private, allowing me only to pee in a bucket in the living room in front of everyone, that would be legally ok and I would have no right to assert my dignity?

[visceral_instinct]

Hi VI, Hope your ok today!

Yes it is a perants right to know what happens to a childs genitalia, say for example a 14yr old girl goes for a vaginal piercing, wouldnt you want to know if it was ok? I would take her to a doctor and ask the female doctor to see if its ok and not harmful to my child,

Yes they are they're own people, but they need help at times to know what is right and wrong, my daughter is 15 and we have the safe sex chat a lot, and she knows that if anything happens to her she can come to me and we can then deal with the situation

Well that is reasonable. What's not reasonable is saying you cannot do this even though it's safe and it's your own body.

@Alien: I'm 19...(overage)

[Alien Cockroach]

@Alien: I'm 19...(overage)Oh, I figured you were a lot younger. I apologize.

Now that I understand your point better, VI, I think that you have a better case. Yes, you are entitled to a certain amount of privacy.

[shorty_37]

i would be pissed off and upset but there isnt a lot i could do about it, so yeah i would let her get this piercing out off her system (she's a child, children do the damndest things at times) and then i would make sure it is removed safely

So basically you would just give in to your 14 yr old daughter....:bugeye:

What do you mean there is nothing you could do? So you would just let her do it? She is 14 right? living under your roof right? she is still a minor right?

As a parent you have every right to enforce certain rules on a 14 yr old kid and if they don't abide by them, they should suffer the consequences whatever those might be.

[shorty_37]

Well that is reasonable. What's not reasonable is saying you cannot do this even though it's safe and it's your own body.

@Alien: I'm 19...(overage)

It's reasonable for a parent to set rules as long as their kids are minors living under their roof. There is plenty of time when they are older for them to make their own decisions, until that day parent's have every right to stick their nose into what they can and can not do.

Uhm. What kids do outside the home IS a parent's business. A parent has both the right and responsibility to find out if their kid is getting their nose dirty in some shit they shouldn't be dealing with, like drugs, drinking, unprotected sex, and the like.

Adolescents are not adults. They are not independent. When they move out of their parents home, that is when it is no one's business but their own.

:thumbsup:

[Alien Cockroach]

If I want to be nocturnal, interact only with dogs outside of working and other necessary social activity, talk to myself and make repetitive movements constantly, that's my right.Oh, those were the good, old days. Mrrr. I kind of miss them. Do you also like to keep the brightness dimmed down on your display? If not, you should try it. I also suggest listening to a lot of loud, aggressive metal, smoking, drinking a lot of those energy drinks that have the B-vitamin boosters in them, and eating practically any food that causes people to look at you strangely, especially if they are sardines.

If I develop schizophreniaYou won't! Trust me! Hehehe! In fact, some delusions of grandeur would do you some good as long as you don't take them too seriously. I recommend daydreaming about enslaving humanity and bending the world to your will. It is good for you! Specifics may vary from one individual to another, though.

[visceral_instinct]

Oh, those were the good, old days. Mrrr. I kind of miss them. Do you also like to keep the brightness dimmed down on your display? If not, you should try it. I also suggest listening to a lot of loud, aggressive metal, smoking, drinking a lot of those energy drinks that have the B-vitamin boosters in them, and eating practically any food that causes people to look at you strangely, especially if they are sardines.

You won't! Trust me! Hehehe! In fact, some delusions of grandeur would do you some good as long as you don't take them too seriously. I recommend daydreaming about enslaving humanity and bending the world to your will. It is good for you! Specifics may vary from one individual to another, though.

I keep the brightness down, but that's because it hurts my eyes.

Shit! You know me so well. I do all of those except smoking and sardines.

It's reasonable for a parent to set rules as long as their kids are minors living under their roof. There is plenty of time when they are older for them to make their own decisions, until that day parent's have every right to stick their nose into what they can and can not do.



So if I were 17 instead of 19, which isn't so long ago, my mother would have the right to make any rule, even if that rule was that I'm not allowed to pee unless under her supervision, or that she was allowed to look at my private dream diary which contains descriptions of macabre and sexual dreams I would never want another human being seeing??!?!?!

Fuck that.

[Alien Cockroach]

I keep the brightness down, but that's because it hurts my eyes.It kept ME from being psychotic, and it gave my poor, abused brain a chance to recuperate and regroup.

Shit! You know me so well. I do all of those except smoking and sardines.I'm obsessive-compulsive as Hell, though, so I needed it. Nicotine is very good for treating OCD, and I actually have a form of ASD that is associated with it. What probably got me on the sardines was that my FATHER always used to eat them, and I picked it up from him.

[Bells]

a parent has every right to know of their child's sexual activity. A parent has no right to publicly broadcast it. Was the mother's intention to shame her child for the rape?

That was the issue with this whole debacle.

From what could be gathered, the girl had been raped and told her mother, who apparently did not believe her. The mother assumed that her daughter was sexually active and doing drugs.

This particular radio show has a segment where they hook you up to a lie detector test and if you pass, you then win a prize. The other week, apparently someone was reunited with a long lost relative after having 'passed' the test. Well this particular prize of a parent thought it would be a good idea to force her 14 year old child into the test and she would then question her daughter about her "sex life" and whether she did drugs. So the child was hooked up to the lie detector test on live radio and she then asked her daughter if she had ever had sex. The girl became very upset and informed her mother that the question wasn't funny at all because she (the mother) knew she had been raped 2 years before. The mother apparently scoffed at the daughter's response. It became worse when the meat head for a presenter on the show then asked the girl quite angrily if that (the rape) was 'her first or only sexual experience'. I believe it all went downhill from there, or further downhill.

It seems the mother's intention was to force her daughter to say that she was sexually active and doing drugs as her mother believed her to be. At the root of it, the girl had told her mother a couple of years earlier that she had been raped and the mother didn't believe her and wanted to shame her into admitting it and saying that 'mummy was right'.. The police and the relevant Government departments are now involved and the girl is receiving counseling for her rape and for the ordeal on the radio.

i would be pissed off and upset but there isnt a lot i could do about it, so yeah i would let her get this piercing out off her system (she's a child, children do the damndest things at times) and then i would make sure it is removed safely
:eek:

So you'd take your 14 year old daughter to a piercing place, let her take off her panties and have some stranger handling her genitals to pierce it? And then you'd take her to the doctors to make sure it was done properly that would allow for safe removal if she changed her mind later on? At 14?:bugeye:

Ermm no. If my 14 year old son came and told me that he wanted his genitals pierced, the answer would be no. There would be no consent for him to do it. And thankfully in Australia, he would need parental consent to do it. And if by some weird chance he did find someone to do it without parental consent, I'd spend the rest of my life ensuring that the individual ended up in jail.

Yes, kids do the most stupid things sometimes. But that doesn't mean that as a parent it's my role to say "okay! *giggle*" and let them do it to get it out of their system. My role as my kid's parent is to say "no". And genital piercing would be a huge "no". Massive "NO".

[Asguard]

bells lets work backwards and specifically on sex.

your 19 year old has condoms, what do you do?
18 year old?
17 year old?
16 year old?
15 year old?
ect

Further more i could do it in days (ie 15 and 364 days)

Tell me what EXACT age a child grows a brain? (acording to you)

There is a very specific reason for the way consent laws (in both med and sex) are written. That is that childhood to adult hood is a proccess not a cut off. This seems to be something that certain people (and im sorry for picking on one in paticular) like orleander arnt able to understand. The reason (the only reason) i say orleander is because of a comment she made in a discussion a while ago talking about medical consent and palitive care. Ie if a child under the manditory age of consent for medical treatment refused to submit to another futile round of chemo when the parents refused (inspite of the low chances of success) to "give up" and let the child die.

I cant rember the exact age i said but it was probably 14 or 15 because we were discussing the way the medical consent laws are written to give the power to the person (adolessant) as soon as they show they are able to make those choices in full knowlage of the conquences

[Bells]

bells lets work backwards and specifically on sex.

your 19 year old has condoms, what do you do?
18 year old?
17 year old?
16 year old?
15 year old?
ect

Kill them if they don't use it and kill them if they are having sex before they are mentally ready to have sex.:)

Tell me what EXACT age a child grows a brain? (acording to you)
You seem to be personally offended that I have rules that I expect my children to abide by when it comes to things like sex and drugs and alcohol. Why is that?

When does a child grow a brain? When they prove that they have grown one. And that is when they prove that they are responsible individuals and able to be trusted to do the right thing. To do that means having open communication and we being able to tell them why we make the decisions we make for them.

There is a very specific reason for the way consent laws (in both med and sex) are written. That is that childhood to adult hood is a proccess not a cut off. This seems to be something that certain people (and im sorry for picking on one in paticular) like orleander arnt able to understand. The reason (the only reason) i say orleander is because of a comment she made in a discussion a while ago talking about medical consent and palitive care. Ie if a child under the manditory age of consent for medical treatment refused to submit to another futile round of chemo when the parents refused (inspite of the low chances of success) to "give up" and let the child die.

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to give my kids a packet of condoms each when they reach 16 or 17 and say 'go forth and plunder'?

While my kids are minors and live under my roof, they will need to abide by our rules. I will expect my children to be able to talk to us about sex and drugs, etc. Because they will be brought up to be encouraged to speak about it to us if they have questions or are curious. But as their parents, it is our duty to make sure that we put them on the right path to make the best decision and if they are unable to make it for themselves, then we make it for them.

I cant rember the exact age i said but it was probably 14 or 15 because we were discussing the way the medical consent laws are written to give the power to the person (adolessant) as soon as they show they are able to make those choices in full knowlage of the conquences
And?

Do you think all 14 or 15 year old's are able to make such life changing decisions for themselves? I don't. Hell, I know 25 year old's who aren't of the right mind to drive a car, let alone have sex and become parents. But that is the issue here. There can be ever lasting repurcussions to sex and I need to make sure that my children understand that before they start having sex. To do otherwise would be irresponsible of me.

I could always do what my cousin did with her daughters. As soon as her daughter's reached puberty, she gave them the egg game. Gave them a raw egg and told them it was to be their baby for a week. She woke them up every 2-3 hours at night for a week and told them it was feeding time, etc.. as one would with a newborn baby. Then she told them that if they had sex, that could be one of the repurcussions of that and unless they were ready to face that, then they shouldn't be having sex, because contraception can and does fail. They are in their mid and late teens now and both have boyfriends, but no sleep-over's ever and both, by their own admittance (they are very open about talking about sex with their parents) are still virgins as they prefer to wait. Their parents showed them the consequences that can arise and told them it was up to them to decide for themselves and they have done so.:)

[Asguard]

bells how many times in your life have you had sex?

yet you only have 2 children?

Seems to me that contraception works doesnt it

As for if "children" are able make "life changing" medical decisions i have seen VERY young children make much better decisions about there treatments than there parents. For instance a 10 year old who refused a second bone marrow transplant which would have given him at best a 5 % chance of surviving till the end of the year with MASSIVE amounts of pain.

Further more do you have any idea how many 14, 15 year olds are "child careers" for there parents with serious mental or physical illnesses?

adolessants can deal with alot more than you give them credit for, wether they should HAVE to or not is another question (especially in the case of teenaged careers) but they do it (and alot of them would refuse to change it)

[lucifers angel]

So basically you would just give in to your 14 yr old daughter....:bugeye:

What do you mean there is nothing you could do? So you would just let her do it? She is 14 right? living under your roof right? she is still a minor right?

As a parent you have every right to enforce certain rules on a 14 yr old kid and if they don't abide by them, they should suffer the consequences whatever those might be.

no she is 15, and if she had it done without me knowing, i would be pissed off and upset but there wouldnt be anything i could do about it, however is she can to me and said "mum i want to have a vaginal piercing" then i would have to ask why, and has she given any thought to the fact that if she does get this done then the piercer is breaking the law and could loose his licence,

i know my daughter, better than anyone else knows her, and i know that in a few weeks it will pass and she will remove the piercing, and i think if perants knew about it and supervised they're children, then they will be better people. people learn by they're mistakes if we dont allow children to make mistakes how will they learn? Because we all know children do the damdest things from time to time

[darksidZz]

My perspective is two-fold. First yes kids have a right to privacy, infact I rather think they rebel simply because they think they do not have that right. So by denying them the right to "experiment" and similar notions you make them want to do it more. However there is also the truth that not everything someone wants to do is acceptable and only age will teach a person that. I would say parents want their kids to be older before engaging in sex because that will increase the odds of them picking a more responsible and suitable partner. So in the end both are right to an extent.

The question is should young adults be allowed free reigns on sexual escapades? I think perhaps not, if only to feel better about my lack of a sex life lol

[Orleander]

Which was exactly why I said CERTAIN BOUNDARIES. Read my post. They shouldn't be allowed to do literally anything, but they should have privacy within reason.

If I want to be nocturnal, interact only with dogs outside of working and other necessary social activity, talk to myself and make repetitive movements constantly, that's my right.

If I develop schizophrenia and try and rip my own eyes out of their sockets, yes, society has the right to step in and take away my self control.

Do you see the difference there between "right to privacy" and "right to do what you like no matter what"?

So if my mother had forbade me as a 17 year old to pee in private, allowing me only to pee in a bucket in the living room in front of everyone, that would be legally ok and I would have no right to assert my dignity?

VI, what does this all have to do with your sex life?

[Orleander]

bells how many times in your life have you had sex?

yet you only have 2 children?

Seems to me that contraception works doesnt it...

yes, but the diaphragm, pill, shot, and IUD don't stop STDs do they?

[visceral_instinct]

VI, what does this all have to do with your sex life?

Just using an analogy.

I know if I had wanted a genital piercing, I wouldn't have gone asking my mother's permission. I would have grabbed a needle and a new earring, soaked them both in Milton for several hours to kill pathogens, and done the thing myself.

Would it have been my mother's right to demand to see my genitalia to see if I had a piercing??

[Orleander]

Just using an analogy.

I know if I had wanted a genital piercing, I wouldn't have gone asking my mother's permission. I would have grabbed a needle and a new earring, soaked them both in Milton for several hours to kill pathogens, and done the thing myself.

Would it have been my mother's right to demand to see my genitalia to see if I had a piercing??

I don't know if I would want to see it, but I would want to know about it. And the thought of my child doing a genital self-piercing, well to me that proves they aren't mature enough to make that decision.

[visceral_instinct]

Self-piercing is fine if done responsibly, ie, use something sterile and take care of the aperture.

It is not a sign of immaturity. Lots of adults do it. There are some you shouldn't do by yourself though such as surface piercings, you can easily fuck them up.

[visceral_instinct]

I'll put it this way.

Genitalia are private. Unless there is a danger of something, such as pregnancy or STDs, no one's genitalia are anyone else's business.

If a genital piercing was kept sterile thus not a danger, how exactly would it be the parent's business?

You talk of them not being mature enough to make that decision.

How exactly does it count as a major decision that requires maturity? It's in an area no one sees. It can be taken out if they don't like it. It is of almost no consequence in everyday life.

[Orleander]

Self-piercing is fine if done responsibly, ie, use something sterile and take care of the aperture.

It is not a sign of immaturity. Lots of adults do it. There are some you shouldn't do by yourself though such as surface piercings, you can easily fuck them up.

and what teenagers do you know that are like that? I know very few adults skilled enough to do a self piercing, let alone a genital one.

[visceral_instinct]

and what teenagers do you know that are like that? I know very few adults skilled enough to do a self piercing, let alone a genital one.

I have met quite a few teenagers who did their own nose or lip piercings. And no, no horror stories of how they ended up with septicemia...sorry.

There's this perception that teenagers are basically tall, long-limbed toddlers who can't be trusted to do anything without their immaturity getting in the way. It's pretty fallacious from what I have seen. I can think of a few who are like that, but only a small minority.

[Orleander]

....There's this perception that teenagers are basically tall, long-limbed toddlers who can't be trusted to do anything without their immaturity getting in the way...

I think most men are that way. :D

[Alien Cockroach]

I am an adult, and I am STILL a long-limbed toddler who can't be trusted without his immaturity getting in the way! The thing that makes it so complicated, though, is that teenagers still aren't full-blown adults. They are still developing until even their mid-twenties. This leaves a lot of adults a little confused as to what to do with them.

Most of the adults in question are happiest if the teenagers in question kindly apply themselves in school, so they can be shipped off to a nice college for about maybe eight years. Colleges deal with these young adults for a living, and they are a lot better than parents at completing this part of their rearing.

In ancient times, it was normal for teenagers to be shipped off to work for somebody while learning a trade. This was effective for exactly the same reason: parents are kind of incompetent at raising young adults. On the other hand, an experienced boss has a much better idea of how to handle them.

[visceral_instinct]

In ancient times, it was normal for teenagers to be shipped off to work for somebody while learning a trade. This was effective for exactly the same reason: parents are kind of incompetent at raising young adults. On the other hand, an experienced boss has a much better idea of how to handle them.

Ya got a point.

I don't mind deferring to someone because they're better at something than me or are higher ranking in some field than me.

I can not however cope with having to defer all the time in every way and not being allowed to own any aspect of myself and my life.

I thank fuck I'm not the daughter of some of the posters here. I think I'd flip out and murder them :D

[Lucysnow]

Ya got a point.

I don't mind deferring to someone because they're better at something than me or are higher ranking in some field than me.

I can not however cope with having to defer all the time in every way and not being allowed to own any aspect of myself and my life.

I thank fuck I'm not the daughter of some of the posters here. I think I'd flip out and murder them :D

Only because you're still a teenager.

[visceral_instinct]

Only because you're still a teenager.

Which are you referring to?

The humorous comment about flipping out and committing murder, or my reaction to having to be submissive?

If it was the latter, I'm not sure if it is a teenage thing. Some teenagers don't mind. Some can't stand rules in any form. Some are in between.

I don't mind obeying rules that are there for a good reason. I can not however cope with feeling "invaded" or not having control of myself.

[Lucysnow]

It was the last two sentences. Most adults do have to defer to someone else at some point or another yet it doesn't make us feel as if we have no control over any aspect of ourselves or our lives. Only a teenager is in a position where they have this feeling, its totally normal no matter who your parents are.

[visceral_instinct]

It was the last two sentences. Most adults do have to defer to someone else at some point or another yet it doesn't make us feel as if we have no control over any aspect of ourselves or our lives. Only a teenager is in a position where they have this feeling, its totally normal no matter who your parents are.

Ack, sorry. I clearly failed to make myself clear. *smacks forehead*

I meant, I don't mind deferring to people in that field where they are dominant. If I'm at work obviously I'll do what the boss wants. It doesn't take away any of my control over my own life.

When I'm at kickboxing class, I defer to my trainer. He is the most highly skilled and he knows best. This also does not take away my control over my own life.

But someone having power over my personal life is a different thing. I could not take being under the authority of someone who gets to arbitrarily decide whether I get to have piercings or not, whether I can see someone or not, how much privacy I'm allowed to have, etc. That would wreck my mental health, I think..

[Bells]

bells how many times in your life have you had sex?

yet you only have 2 children?

Seems to me that contraception works doesnt it
More like not being able to conceive for a long time "works". And then one day, even after being doubly careful 'just in case', we found out that the contraception did not really work and I could conceive.

I find it a bit surprising that you find it so personally offensive that I have rules that I expect my children to obey when it comes to sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.

As for if "children" are able make "life changing" medical decisions i have seen VERY young children make much better decisions about there treatments than there parents. For instance a 10 year old who refused a second bone marrow transplant which would have given him at best a 5 % chance of surviving till the end of the year with MASSIVE amounts of pain.
A 10 year old who has undergone years of chemo is not like any ordinary 10 year old. 10 year old's who have suffered that much in their short lives tend to be more mature than most adults. So to compare a dying child's wishes with a horny teenager's wish to have sex with anything that moves is not exactly something you should be comparing.


Further more do you have any idea how many 14, 15 year olds are "child careers" for there parents with serious mental or physical illnesses?
Yes. And children who are in such responsible roles are not like your average teenagers.

adolessants can deal with alot more than you give them credit for, wether they should HAVE to or not is another question (especially in the case of teenaged careers) but they do it (and alot of them would refuse to change it)


Yes, I am well aware that they can and do deal with a hell of a lot in life. But that doesn't mean that as my kid's parents, I am not going to have rules to bring them up by.

Just using an analogy.

I know if I had wanted a genital piercing, I wouldn't have gone asking my mother's permission. I would have grabbed a needle and a new earring, soaked them both in Milton for several hours to kill pathogens, and done the thing myself.

Would it have been my mother's right to demand to see my genitalia to see if I had a piercing??
Why?

See, this is what I don't quite get. Would the desire to have a piece of metal pierced into your genitals that strong that you would risk mutilating yourself instead of getting your mother's consent to have it done by a professional?

No offence VI, but if my son said something like that to me, it would be a prime example of just how he wouldn't be mature enough to not only make a decision to have his genitals pierced, but also not mature enough to have sex. The whole 'I'll get a needle and do it myself before I even think about asking for permission to have it done' reeks of petulance that shows that the individual hasn't grown up enough to make a responsible decision or think reasonably.

I can not however cope with having to defer all the time in every way and not being allowed to own any aspect of myself and my life.
But yet, you do. You do so when you post here. You are forced to defer to the rules of this site. You are forced to defer to the laws of the country you live in. You are also forced, whether you wish to admit it or not, to defer to your mother's judgement and rules in your life. You are what you are now because you have been allowed to grow up that way.

I thank fuck I'm not the daughter of some of the posters here. I think I'd flip out and murder them
I find it interesting how some posters seem to take personal offence that there are those of us, who have children, who wish to have a say in what our children do when they are children.

[shorty_37]

I thank fuck I'm not the daughter of some of the posters here. I think I'd flip out and murder them :D

And we thank god that you are NOT our daughter...;)

Bells and I on the same page here. As long as they are minors and live under my roof they are going to have to abide by my rules.
If they don't, they will suffer consequences.

Wait until you have your own children, believe me it will all change. My mother used to get on my case when I was a teenager and always
said to me.... Ohhhhhh You just wait until you have kids, she was right!

All kids especially approaching teenage yrs are going to experiment and get into things that they shouldn't. I know I did as a teenager and I am sure
most of the moms who have rules for their own kids now, also did. That doesn't mean that it is ok and we should just throw all the rules out the window
because kids will be kids.

For instance mine are 8 and 13 now. They know that it is not acceptable to run around swearing and they don't. ( Not around the house anyway)
I have a set time that they both must be home, or at least in the front of the house where I know where they are. They are home give or take 10 mins when they are expected to be.
We have had discussions about smoking, drinking and sex with my older one. He knows how I feel about it and he also knows if I caught him doing any of that stuff now there would be hell to pay with me.

This getting things out of their systems....is BULLSHIT! It is just the parent's caving into their pre teen or teenage kids trying to be a friend instead of their parent.
Kids have a lot of friends.....They need parent's to keep them in check and be in their business to set rules and guide lines and hopefully bring up decent young adults.

[Lucysnow]

And we thank god that you are NOT our daughter...;)

Oh give her a break. She's only a teenager afterall, her rebellion is only natural. Anyway she'll be worse than you when she's a mom! Doors? Honey there won't even be a door to the bathroom! :D

[shorty_37]

Oh give her a break. She's only a teenager afterall, her rebellion is only natural. Anyway she'll be worse than you when she's a mom! Doors? Honey there won't even be a door to the bathroom! :D

I am just egging her on, since she would kill us if we were her mom.

She will have her day I am sure. Wait till her daughter comes home
with a RED BULL tatoo on her ass, nipple rings and a box of flavored condoms under her arm at age 14. Then let's see if everything is still cool. :p

Oh wait and when V_I tries to say anything her daughter tells her to go fuck herself and tells her to get her ass off the couch and get some more RED BULL. :D

[Orleander]

....Doors? Honey there won't even be a door to the bathroom! :D

That is amazingly effective!! My son went without a bedroom door for a while. :D

[Buffalo Roam]

And we thank god that you are NOT our daughter...;)

Bells and I on the same page here. As long as they are minors and live under my roof they are going to have to abide by my rules.
If they don't, they will suffer consequences.

Wait until you have your own children, believe me it will all change. My mother used to get on my case when I was a teenager and always
said to me.... Ohhhhhh You just wait until you have kids, she was right!

All kids especially approaching teenage yrs are going to experiment and get into things that they shouldn't. I know I did as a teenager and I am sure
most of the moms who have rules for their own kids now, also did. That doesn't mean that it is ok and we should just throw all the rules out the window
because kids will be kids.

For instance mine are 8 and 13 now. They know that it is not acceptable to run around swearing and they don't. ( Not around the house anyway)
I have a set time that they both must be home, or at least in the front of the house where I know where they are. They are home give or take 10 mins when they are expected to be.
We have had discussions about smoking, drinking and sex with my older one. He knows how I feel about it and he also knows if I caught him doing any of that stuff now there would be hell to pay with me.

This getting things out of their systems....is BULLSHIT! It is just the parent's caving into their pre teen or teenage kids trying to be a friend instead of their parent.
Kids have a lot of friends.....They need parent's to keep them in check and be in their business to set rules and guide lines and hopefully bring up decent young adults.

Bravo!!! Bravo!!! also to you Bells.

[visceral_instinct]

Oh give her a break. She's only a teenager afterall, her rebellion is only natural. Anyway she'll be worse than you when she's a mom! Doors? Honey there won't even be a door to the bathroom! :D

I am not trying to rebel. Hell, I have 9 piercings, which I had done professionally, that my mother did not mind. I have no need to rebel; my mother has a mind and some sense. Just trying to point out the difference between 'right to privacy, within reason' and 'right to do any shit that you like'.

I notice you're resorting to saying 'She's only a teenager' instead of pointing out why I'm wrong. If I am wrong why do you need to resort to doing that? ;)

I am 19 and a half, by the way. Technically a teenager, but I'm no adolescent. Let me guess, next year instead of 'You're only a teenager, what do you know?' it will be 'You're only 20, what do you know?' If I am wrong then explain, using reasoning and not condescension, why I am wrong.

"When I'm a mom"??

I can't think of anything more life destroying, except maybe being raped, or having my adrenal glands removed. I hate babies.

See, this is what I don't quite get. Would the desire to have a piece of metal pierced into your genitals that strong that you would risk mutilating yourself instead of getting your mother's consent to have it done by a professional?

No offence VI, but if my son said something like that to me, it would be a prime example of just how he wouldn't be mature enough to not only make a decision to have his genitals pierced, but also not mature enough to have sex. The whole 'I'll get a needle and do it myself before I even think about asking for permission to have it done' reeks of petulance that shows that the individual hasn't grown up enough to make a responsible decision or think reasonably.


Self done piercings are not dangerous if you use something sterile. Plenty of people do them as an alternative to paying E60 or so for a little piece of metal. When an adult does one they're an adult doing a self piercing, when a 14 year old does it he's a petulant brat?

Note that I said 'If I had wanted one' meaning when I was 14. Not right now in reality. Yes, I would have done one myself, if I had sensed that if I asked I'd only be told 'No'.

But yet, you do. You do so when you post here. You are forced to defer to the rules of this site. You are forced to defer to the laws of the country you live in. You are also forced, whether you wish to admit it or not, to defer to your mother's judgement and rules in your life. You are what you are now because you have been allowed to grow up that way.


See this post

I meant, I don't mind deferring to people in that field where they are dominant. If I'm at work obviously I'll do what the boss wants. It doesn't take away any of my control over my own life.

When I'm at kickboxing class, I defer to my trainer. He is the most highly skilled and he knows best. This also does not take away my control over my own life.

But someone having power over my personal life is a different thing. I could not take being under the authority of someone who gets to arbitrarily decide whether I get to have piercings or not, whether I can see someone or not, how much privacy I'm allowed to have, etc. That would wreck my mental health, I think..

[visceral_instinct]

This getting things out of their systems....is BULLSHIT! It is just the parent's caving into their pre teen or teenage kids trying to be a friend instead of their parent.
Kids have a lot of friends.....They need parent's to keep them in check and be in their business to set rules and guide lines and hopefully bring up decent young adults.


No it is called having a sense of perspective, and making rules where they are actually needed, rather than rules for the sake of rules.

If a kid wants to have sex and doesn't care much about condoms, YES, you should intervene. If a kid is curious about some narcotic or other and wants to try some, YES, you intervene. If a kid goes off to random places, they don't contact you for hours and you don't know where they are going or what they are getting into, YES, you intervene.

But letting a kid get a piercing done SAFELY, that they can take out if they want? There are no serious consequences there. There is a difference between low level fuckups that they can leave behind and learn from, and mistakes that have serious consequences. It's the latter that you have to protect them from.

Boundaries start to lose their value when you make them for no reason other than because it's your house and you can.

[Orleander]

....If a kid wants to have sex and doesn't care much about condoms, YES, you should intervene....

And just when should a parent get involved? How is a parent to know if their child is having sex or using a condom if they are not involved?

....But letting a kid get a piercing done SAFELY, that they can take out if they want? There are no serious consequences there....

and if all of these below were done professionally and safely? How many does my child need to have before I can get involved?

http://www.helsenyt.com/items/art-pierce.jpg

[Orleander]

...I can't think of anything more life destroying, except maybe being raped, or having my adrenal glands removed. I hate babies....

wow. children are life destroying. wow
Makes me wonder how your parents feel

Just because you are smart VI doesn't mean you are mature.

[visceral_instinct]

@Orly:

You talk to them openly like my mum did with me. Not in the context of 'Never do this or I'll punish you' but 'How to be safe, and what is sensible.'

Obviously the guy you quote is an extreme case. I couldn't draw you up an exact number of piercings, but if you literally want me to give a rough number, I'd say more than 3 piercings on each of their facial features, or more than 7 lip piercings. After that it stops looking decorative and starts to look like mutilation.

Sorry, Orly. I'm abnormal.

I wish I could genuinely want children, but I can't quite condition myself into being a normal female who wants babies. I cannot quite conjure up in myself the desire to have something that screams, hurts my ears and drives up my anxiety level, wrecks my sleep, needs its pee and poo cleaning up, needs reassurance, requires me to manufacture emotions all the time, and leaves no time for my own interests.

Yeah, then there are my various odd mental glitches. I don't always react normally to things.

One time my niece said she was 'upset' because she had lost me in a shopping mall, even though it was a crowded area and there were plenty of trustworthy adults she could have gone up to and asked for help. I should have instantly felt sorry, and compassionate, but the only thing in my head was 'Upset? Ewwwwwwwwwww! Take your horrible icky emotions away from me.' Like they were something indecent. Like feces.

Nope...you don't want someone like me having babies.

[Orleander]

@Orly:

You talk to them openly like my mum did with me. Not in the context of 'Never do this or I'll punish you' but 'How to be safe, and what is sensible.'..


exactly. Parents should be involved in their child's sex life. Smart open parents help their children make smart choices.

@Orly:

Obviously the guy you quote is an extreme case. I couldn't draw you up an exact number of piercings, but if you literally want me to give a rough number, I'd say more than 3 piercings on each of their facial features, or more than 7 lip piercings. After that it stops looking decorative and starts to look like mutilation..

and I think any more than 2 each on the ears or one on the nose is unattractive. 7 on a persons lip is disgusting and my child would have hell to pay if they did so.

...Sorry, Orly. I'm abnormal.

I wish I could genuinely want children, but I can't quite condition myself into being a normal female who wants babies.

My sister-in-law and her husband have no children. I never felt the huge desire to have them. I can honestly say I didn't 'bond' with my kids til they were about 6 weeks old. But I never saw a child as life destroying. It just seems so hateful. :(

[visceral_instinct]

Unattractive doesn't mean wrong.

Sorry, but I would find it life destroying.

I'm not wired for being maternal and self sacrificing. I would find it really depressing and demoralizing having my life taken up with cleaning up pee and poo and listening to a horrid high pitched cry. I've heard enough of those during my brother's autistic meltdowns.