Why don't we like subcultures/people who dress differently?

I know the usual argument: What you wear says something about you. Black leather and mesh says antisocial, dangerous, angry, unstable. Huge neon bow in your hair says immature. White face says you think anemia is cool, therefore you have distorted values and a correspondingly distorted mentality.

Wrong. It's an aesthetic preference (I liked wearing black since I was 7/8. No symbolism there, I just liked that dark colours looked "velvety". Go figure.), and for some it's also a way of displaying your allegiance to your subculture.

Also, why don't we like subcultures in the first place?

I know what you're about to say: They're a rejection of wider society.

They're really not.

Some are actually more civilized and social than the so-called normal ones.

Whenever I've been with a group of goths or metalheads, I've always been struck by how heavily social they are. Hugging is very common. They're also very tolerant of difference. Weirdness tends to be seen as a good thing, unless it's actually destructive.

By contrast, whenever I was around so-called "normal" girls, they mostly tended towards very narrow requirements of behaviour and dress, and would pick apart any member who showed even slight variation. In some circles, even saying the word 'obscure' was uncool and wrong, because it sounded vaguely intellectual.

Maybe we should all learn something from those who are different? (That isn't a rcomplaint or rebuke. I include myself there when I say we should all learn. )

Thoughts?

 

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I dont think that the way you dress really establishes the type of person your are or your emotional stability. The notion that the colors you wear or the way you look make you seem unstable are just constructs of the cultures we all live in, people like familiarity, and so negative feelings become associated with those who do not fit the standard mold of cultural conformity. Neon green hair doesnt mean you are immature, but it doesnt mean that you are not. Dress however you will, but dont expect everyone to like it. = )

 

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Perhaps, but it may also go back to the primeval instinct of "us" and "them". Meaning that in a tribal society, if you are not one of "us" then you are probably an enemy that is going rape, plunder and steal from us. Dress, body markings, piercings, hair color, skin color, etc were all ways of differentiating us from them. Basically, people who were not part of my tribe were scary. So maybe part of what you see is a hold over from those basic instincts that were necessary for survival at one time...

 

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People "like" to stereotype. In that I mean that humans are generally more comfortable if they can place others into a familiar category so that they can then respond in the "correct" manner.
Black leather has been a stereotype of the rebel for decades (for example) and the vast majority of the time is categorised as verging on thuggish, irresponsible and tending to anti-social behaviour (mostly due to media influence). (One good source on the BLJ [whether it's actually black or not is largely irrelevant - in fact mine is dark blue but is always considered by others to be black, even after "careful" scrutinisation!] is COOL RULES Anatomy of an Attitude. by Dick Pountain and David Robins).

With regard to the

in my experience it's generally the guys that dress "normally" that tend to start the trouble (at gigs and outside the pubs): my personal theory being that the "outsiders" have already proven anything they wish to by actually being "different" and the "normal" guys feel they still have something to prove...

On the other hand I manage to surprise most people when they discover that this particular leather-clad "thug" is conversant with Shakespeare, mathematics, languages...

 

It's also guys that dress 'normally' that on one occasion threatened to rape me for standing up to them, on another followed me into a supermarket as a gang, shouting obscenities, in front of the entire supermarket staff including the manager who I had alerted, and on yet another congregated across the road shouting insults and one yelled 'Let's cross the road and go after her!'

It was 'normal' kids who incited a girl to try and beat the shit out of me(Happily, she failed, and suffered lasting injuries...).

It was a 'normal' girl who launched a basketball at my face while I was looking the other way, almost knocking my molars out.

Yay for normal people...not.

 

Lile you say, being in the mainstream has a dress code just as much as a subculture does, it's just more restricive. It says just as much about the person as being in a subculture does. It says 'I am scared, and I am boring.'

It's hot around here at the moment. Damned hot. But, being Britain, how many repressed males still wear shoes and socks with their shorts? Sandals and flip flops are too gay for the mainstream, or too revealing for their delicate nature, so they stick to what they feel comfortable with, shoes, and socks, when the temperature hits 30degC. Madness.

How many mainstream men think 'casual' means wearing a football/rugby shirt? Safe, UGLY bullshit clothes. Herd mentality, because they are scared to be noticed.

On punch ups etc. Well, I've hung out in a fair few 'dives' with bikers, punks, metallers, goths, etc, and never seen a fight. Places most folks think are dangerous.

Everyone who has picked a fight with me has been mainstream. On most occasions, they like to outnumber the people they pick on, too. They never seem to learn that drinking heavily doesn't actually turn them into the martial arts god they think it does. In actual fact, it's years in the Dojo that do that. Years where I spent my youth, not that I'm elite or anything, just competent, and that's easily enough.

Oh, and they dislike us that are in subcultures, because they are scared to be in one themselves, although they'd perhaps like to be. It's the same reason middle aged men buy Harley Davidson motorcycles, and start dressing in leathers, once they grow up, and let the bug they had up their arse die, and start living the life they always really wanted.

 

As we grow older we change our ways. Once we think that being a "non conformist" is really the thing to do but as we age we see that what is better ways for us to take other than "non conformity". It is fun for awhile to be in a sub culture, expressing your ideas by the way you talk, walk and dress but it gets to be rather old after awhile trying not to fit in to society because you see others around you either leaving you behind or just getting out of sight. It isn't a bad thing to be a non conformist but as I say it does get old after awhile and many people change their ways.

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So how come the majority of Harleys are bought by middle aged guys of higher than average income, doing the exact opposite, and becoming middle aged bikers?

Seems the migration is towards a sub culture in middle age, not away from it.

Also, I was a weekend rock festival a couple of weeks ago. There were plenty of people my age (forties) there. Still plenty of people not 'changing their ways'!

 

It's genetic. Us vs them mentality.

 

Same thing with tattoos; though it's a bit different in NZ because of course the Maoris and other Polynesians have a long, long tradition of tattooing, so it's not seen as too much of a problem; unlike in other societies where tattoos aren't so well accepted.

 

I definitely judge a book by its cover. I think its a survival skill

 

Ha...good line there!

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You aren't even an adult, isn't that correct? 17 or somewhere abouts?

You will eventually stop wearing that stuff, just like everyone else. You can pretend that you won't, but you haven't yet reached an age where it becomes pretty ridiculous not to just be yourself. People who dress in "subculture" drobes are dressing to impress. You said yourself it was to "show allegiance to your subculture."

You aren't being yourself. That's why people look down on these fads.

 

Unless that actually is herself.

Not necessarily true.

Also not necessarily true.

You're generalising.
Rarely a smart thing to do.

 

I'm not positive, but it is my impression that VI is an adult, and somewhat over 17 years of age.

Not everyone stops wearing that stuff. So this statement is invalid.

And your point is that she will stop wearing her current attire and adopt that of a more conservative, less rebellious subculture. That way she can show allegiance to her subculture...

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Fixed!


Edit: Just trying to cover anything Oli might have missed. He doesn't miss much though...

 

I can only think of ONE person with an outlandish external persona manifesting as true creativity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGON1og89WY

Usually an over wrought foreground means the background is empty...a human void.

 

There was a good article related to this I read once, let's see if I can find it:

Ahh, here it is, 'What is the Monkeysphere?"

http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

It's pretty funny, and also explains why we tend think of people in subgroups and not as individual people.

 

I wouldn't be alive today if I'd done that.

 

Once upon a time, and for some people, non-conformism was/ is the "thing to do" simply because they thought/ think they should (i.e. they're conforming by being "non-conformist).

Better ways?
Please expand upon that.

You mean it's fun to listen to the music you like, hang out with friends with similar interests and talk to people with a similar outlook on life? Who knew?

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See above: how does that "get old"?
And for many (most?) it's not a case of "trying not to fit in" so much as when it's "given up" it's more a case of "trying to fit in" to mainstream society: merely because so many in mainstream have the attitude that sub-culture = bad/ wrong.

Until of course you reach the age when you finally realise "Shit! I don't have to dress/ think/ talk/ behave like everyone else I'm me, I'm gonna be me and fuck 'em if they can't hack it".
Dressing differently/ talking differently or whatever doesn't harm anyone so why should one conform for conformity's sake?

As an example I was sent to an engineering conference in France a few years ago. Me with beads in my braided waist-length hair, black jeans, black T-shirt and everyone else in corporate shirt and tie...
Who was the one person (out of 150 delegates) selected for introduction to the managing director? Guess...

The last but one interview I went for I asked the potential employer what his reaction was on first seeing my hair and the director said "As soon as you walked through the door I told the office manager you were the one for the job: anyone who dares turn up for an interview looking like that has to be so fucking good he doesn't need to look like everyone else in the office. When can you start?"

 

I'm 41, and still schlep around in combat trousers, with my long hair flowing in the breeze, just like I did when I was 17.

Maybe if you get old inside, and bald outside, you can't pull it off anymore.

What a load of pontificating rot. You don't know what sort of adult VI will grow into, so cannot say she isn't being herself now!

You saying you dress like a sack of shit now? You don't care about your appearance at all? What do you know about the subject then?

Maybe you weren't if you were involved in a subculture, but then it sounds like you're pretty square.

People? Squares, you mean. Like we care about the opinion of squares.