View Full Version : A question for doctors (tubal ligation)
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 04:07 PM
If a twenty-one year old girl came to you asking for a tubal ligation, would you refuse? What if she already has two children? In most cases, a doctor would refuse to preform the procedure because of the chance that the woman may one day want children. But if she already has children at her young age, who would it benefit if she has another pregnancy?
As far as I know, there is a reverse procedure for tubal ligation for women who changed their mind, and want children again.
So would you do it?
Liebling
06-08-09, 04:30 PM
I am not a doctor.
But my sister requested this done at 22, and she was refused multiple times. She has horrible reactions to hormones, and was absolutely miserable until she found a doctor who would. She had depression issues and found it hard to be intimate because of not being able to fully protect herself from the possibility of getting pregnant. She's 36 now and doesn't ever regret getting it done at 24.
Her family (I'm adopted) has a very high incidence of heart disease and she is positive for the BRCA2 breast cancer gene. And she hates babies and always said she's adopt an older child if she ever changed her mind. She's also a social worker with a very good head on her shoulders. She's always known she didn't want to have children. Why do doctors have the right to deny an elective surgery that the patient themselves is clearly responsible enough to make no matter what the age as long as they are an adult?
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 04:48 PM
I'm slightly suspicious that the doctors are afraid of ruining their reputations for doing that procedure, since so many women WITHOUT children regret it years later. I just don't understand why they would feel it's best for a young girl with kids to ponder about wanting more kids in the future. Unless they like the idea of taxpayers paying for the hospital expenses and upbringing of the child.
I'm slightly suspicious that the doctors are afraid of ruining their reputations for doing that procedure, since so many women WITHOUT children regret it years later. I just don't understand why they would feel it's best for a young girl with kids to ponder about wanting more kids in the future. Unless they like the idea of taxpayers paying for the hospital expenses and upbringing of the child.
its not about pondering...or reputation.
Doctors want what is best for you!
Statistics show that majority of women regret doing this procedure, but at that point it is too late to help those women.
Liebling
06-08-09, 04:55 PM
Where are your statistics to back that up, Draq? Seriously.
All current evidence suggests that many many women are choosing NOT to have kids and are happier because of it. Nothing to tie them down, and they can focus on their careers and husbands/partners.
Women aren't baby making machines. They have choices.
You'll have to ignore draqon, OverTheStars... he's a lonely, single, chauvanist who thinks women should all want to be barefoot and pregnant. And that's all they should want. He's hopelessly lost in the middle ages where women supposedly loved only to be romanced by him. And anyone not seduced by his "charms" is obviously blatantly corrupted by the evil American empire.
Where are your statistics to back that up, Draq? Seriously.
All current evidence suggests that many many women are choosing NOT to have kids and are happier because of it. Nothing to tie them down, and they can focus on their careers and husbands/partners.
Women aren't baby making machines. They have choices.
Where are your current evidence statistics to back that up, Liebling?
Women aren't feminazis lesbians men-haters. They have choices.
Liebling
06-08-09, 05:01 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/world/americas/19iht-fertility.1.15423720.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/349737/choosing_not_to_have_children.html?cat=49
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060107/news_lz1c07nokids.html
http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2003/05/06/breeding/
And yours, tough guy?
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 05:04 PM
The procedure to reverse the tubal ligation isn't that expensive. Maybe $10k where I live. A woman with good credit/finances could get it done. I also think adopting a child runs at around $10k.
I don't mean to suggest having children should be restricted to people with better incomes. My parents were poor, but they are good people. I'm just saying that if a women gets her tubes tied in the first place, one of the biggest reasons is because she doesn't want to be burdened financially with a child. Unless I'm wrong.
takandjive
06-08-09, 05:09 PM
If a twenty-one year old girl came to you asking for a tubal ligation, would you refuse? What if she already has two children? In most cases, a doctor would refuse to preform the procedure because of the chance that the woman may one day want children. But if she already has children at her young age, who would it benefit if she has another pregnancy?
As far as I know, there is a reverse procedure for tubal ligation for women who changed their mind, and want children again.
So would you do it?
Ho hum. I'm not a doctor; I'm just studying radiology.
But...
If I was a doctor, unless she showed me she'd tried a couple other doctors, I'd say no. If she had, then who am I to refuse her?
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:12 PM
If a twenty-one year old girl came to you asking for a tubal ligation, would you refuse? What if she already has two children? In most cases, a doctor would refuse to preform the procedure because of the chance that the woman may one day want children. But if she already has children at her young age, who would it benefit if she has another pregnancy?
As far as I know, there is a reverse procedure for tubal ligation for women who changed their mind, and want children again.
So would you do it?
Of course, as long as she knows the risks and all that is involved. It's no different than a man getting a vascectomy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/world/americas/19iht-fertility.1.15423720.html
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/349737/choosing_not_to_have_children.html?cat=49
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060107/news_lz1c07nokids.html
http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2003/05/06/breeding/
And yours, tough guy?
The fact that American women are fewer and fewer becoming mothers and not doing their biological duty is as apparent to me as the smell of the toilet. American women are the most evil there is combined in a nutshell decorated with fake cracked diamonds.
Now ... :rolleyes: *Intermission ends*
Stage 1 Opera:
tough woman...hear me for we are speaking about the reversal of tube ligation procedures and not women who choose not to be pregnant.
The statics here we are so forth be discussing are of women who want this procedure done.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1747156/tubal_ligation_reversal_facts.html?cat=52
After a tubal ligation, many women change their mind and want more children.
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:16 PM
There is no such thing as a biological duty to procreate.
You'll have to ignore draqon, OverTheStars... he's a lonely, single, chauvanist who thinks women should all want to be barefoot and pregnant. And that's all they should want. He's hopelessly lost in the middle ages where women supposedly loved only to be romanced by him. And anyone not seduced by his "charms" is obviously blatantly corrupted by the evil American empire.
I can speak for myself thank you. And no, I am not that which you painted me as.
There is no such thing as a biological duty to procreate.
well than you shouldn't exist, spidergoat. After all there is no such thing as a duty to make you exist from procreation. So phantom...why are you existing? :shrug: :rolleyes:
Liebling
06-08-09, 05:20 PM
I had mine done at 29, and don't regret it at all. I know lots of other women who make the same choices and never look back. Some women do regret it... your article has no statistics.
Some women choose not to have children. And that's okay and nothing to be ashamed or depressed about.
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:21 PM
It could be a wish, a dream, a whim, a notion, a passing fancy, love... everything but duty.
I had mine done at 29, and don't regret it at all. I know lots of other women who make the same choices and never look back. Some women do regret it... your article has no statistics.
Some women choose not to have children. And that's okay and nothing to be ashamed or depressed about.
And Some women choose to have children. And that's okay and nothing to be ashamed or depressed about.
Where are your statistics that show that majority of women after tube ligation procedure do not want it reversed? :shrug:
It could be a wish, a dream, a whim, a notion, a passing fancy, love... everything but duty.
well a fancy you spidergoat. :D A notion here you are. :rolleyes:
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:24 PM
And if my mom didn't feel like having me, then so what? Mrs. X right now doesn't feel like having children, and as a consequence will never give birth to person Y. Not having existed, no one will miss person Y.
takandjive
06-08-09, 05:24 PM
I had mine done at 29, and don't regret it at all. I know lots of other women who make the same choices and never look back. Some women do regret it... your article has no statistics.
Some women choose not to have children. And that's okay and nothing to be ashamed or depressed about.
Absolutely correct. Being a mom isn't for everyone, and it's not as though you can't change your mind and adopt later.
Absolutely correct. Being a mom isn't for everyone, and it's not as though you can't change your mind and adopt later.
As well as in to addition...that not being a mom isn't for everyone either. And that you and I and everyone else exists from the people who choose the path of procreation. Honor their choices, act in their wishes.
And if my mom didn't feel like having me, then so what? Mrs. X right now doesn't feel like having children, and as a consequence will never give birth to person Y. Not having existed, no one will miss person Y.
But she did feel like having you, she was not a femi-Nazi, she was a normal good woman with qualities bestowed upon her by life. And I honor such women. I bow before them.
What has been done, been done, all on purpose and with a cause.
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 05:31 PM
Draqon, what about mothers wishing to get tubal ligations?
Draqon, what about mothers wishing to get tubal ligations?
They have my full 100% support, for they have done their duty of life. :)
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 05:36 PM
Alright, and what about young mothers with children, wanting more children? Where taxpayers would be paying for the upbringing of the child? Would you feel that it is in everyone's best interest for the young mother to proceed with getting a tubal ligation? Should she be refused the procedure?
Alright, and what about young mothers with children, wanting more children? Where taxpayers would be paying for the upbringing of the child? Would you feel that it is in everyone's best interest for the young mother to proceed with getting a tubal ligation? Should she be refused the procedure?
That is up to the taxpayers or the government to decide.
My task is to make sure babies are born.
No babies are born? bad.
One baby is born? Good.
More than one baby is born? Better.
Too many babies are born? No such thing.
Unhealthy babies are born? BAD! So as long as those young mothers give birth to healthy children, let them use the tax money, I support the cause!
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:39 PM
But she did feel like having you, she was not a femi-Nazi, she was a normal good woman with qualities bestowed upon her by life. And I honor such women. I bow before them.
What has been done, been done, all on purpose and with a cause.
Woman that don't want any more children are not "femi-nazis". The fewer children women have, the more resources there are for those that are born.
Woman that don't want any more children are not "femi-nazis". The fewer children women have, the more resources there are for those that are born.
Yeah ok, they are not femi-nazis...but they are not doing the task given to them by life either.
We have space to explore, it is limitless! We need every chance we have to maximize our civilization in numbers and strength. We need to explore space for resources and allow the future generations to be driven by the need of resources and thus evolve as a civilization in a whole.
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:44 PM
It's quality, not quantity. A woman is not just a baby-making machine. What about female astronauts?
What about female astronauts?
...what about them?
spidergoat
06-08-09, 05:47 PM
Well, not having a child could be their choice in order to pursue a career in space travel.
Well, not having a child could be their choice in order to pursue a career in space travel.
well...there are always exceptions...space is one of them.
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 05:52 PM
What do you think of barren women?
What do you think of barren women?
barren? what are those? :bugeye:
oh childless by nature...well I think that they are not performing their task because life did not give them the task, thus they are not obliged to perform a task.
Liebling
06-08-09, 06:02 PM
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/PRESSROOM/98facts/sterile.htm
That's your stats... only 25% who've had it done would consider having it reversed. That's not most, that's 1 in 4... 75% wouldn't get it reversed at all. That's not many... that's even slightly more than a few.
Therefore, your statement is false.
takandjive
06-08-09, 06:05 PM
As well as in to addition...that not being a mom isn't for everyone either. And that you and I and everyone else exists from the people who choose the path of procreation. Honor their choices, act in their wishes.
You're right. I want to have a child. However, not all women do. People who want a child should have one. People that don't shouldn't.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/PRESSROOM/98facts/sterile.htm
That's your stats... only 25% who've had it done would consider having it reversed. That's not most, that's 1 in 4... 75% wouldn't get it reversed at all. That's not many... that's even slightly more than a few.
Therefore, your statement is false.
fine I hang tied down waterboarded and defeated.
:rolleyes:
Those women who do undergo this procedure why do they do it? Just because? I am sure the 1/4 that chose to reverse it are the women who were healthy to begin with. And the rest 3/4 were unhealthy and had health issues.
You're right. I want to have a child. However, not all women do. People who want a child should have one. People that don't shouldn't.
Well than we agree.
I am striking for balance here, woman.
spidergoat
06-08-09, 06:07 PM
Same reason you would (theoretically) wear a condom.
Same reason you would (theoretically) wear a condom.
Well...thats a whole another issue/battle, to talk about.
I am too exhausted for the day.
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 06:12 PM
For a 21 year-old woman with two children, she might choose to do it because she wants to give the children she already has the best future possible without relying on government assistance or burdening her family. The responsible thing to do would be to get a tubal ligation.
takandjive
06-08-09, 06:15 PM
Well than we agree.
I am striking for balance here, woman.
But OvertheStars doesn't want to.
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 06:46 PM
I already have two children. I asked to get a tubal ligation six months ago, but was told by the doctor that it was a bad idea, because I might want more children in the future and will regret it. So I continued with birth control, and found out today I am no longer qualified for the health program I'm in (as I was getting the birth control shot from the pharmacy). This is what I feared six months ago, after reading about different programs getting cut from funding.
So, let's hope condoms or abstinence will keep me from getting pregnant. If it was so easy, there would be no need for birth control programs for women my age. Unintended pregnancy among women (especially young ones) wouldn't be such a problem.
Or I can find someone with Chlamydia or Syphilis, have sex with him, and not get treated until AFTER my reproductive organs become too damaged to work again. Heck, most women don't even notice the symptoms before it's too late. Great Plan B.
takandjive
06-08-09, 06:53 PM
Good for you for being a responsible young mother.
Have you tried Planned Parenthood?
Also, I would go to your health department in your county. No one will be denied on their inability to pay, and there's no shame in that.
Liebling
06-08-09, 07:04 PM
No shame at all. I did it after my first son when I couldn't afford much.
But now that I can afford it, I still don't want any more kids and getting plugged (I have essure (http://www.essure.com/) implants which are not reversible) was the best thing that happened to my love life in a long long time.
visceral_instinct
06-08-09, 07:10 PM
People who don't want children shouldn't have to risk having one.
If you change your mind later, you can adopt. Case closed.
takandjive
06-08-09, 07:11 PM
Exactly. Social services like the health department are for young people who are getting things together! I'm using school services for my BC for free right now.
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 07:16 PM
The program I was in was through the health department. But I have contacted Planned Parenthood and have an appointment scheduled on the 24th. Birth control wont be free, but the charge will be based on my income. Hopefully that wont make things difficult, since I have a feeling that's why I was kicked out of the other program to begin with. They have these stupid guidelines predicting what I can and cannot afford.
And I am by no means responsible. If I was, I wouldn't have two children.
Liebling
06-08-09, 07:24 PM
Well hun, we all (myself included) have made mistakes. You live and you learn and you get past it. You'll be stronger for it in the long run, that's for sure. You definitely have a good head on your shoulders now.
takandjive
06-08-09, 07:34 PM
The program I was in was through the health department. But I have contacted Planned Parenthood and have an appointment scheduled on the 24th. Birth control wont be free, but the charge will be based on my income. Hopefully that wont make things difficult, since I have a feeling that's why I was kicked out of the other program to begin with. They have these stupid guidelines predicting what I can and cannot afford.
And I am by no means responsible. I was was, I wouldn't have two children.
Well, I've never made a single mistake EVER and no one else has either. What the hell's wrong with you? Are you human or something? :D
Seriously, I've made some atrocious mistakes in my time. I don't think you've done anything unforgivable. Pregnancies and children happen. You made the best decision for you at the time.
I'm going to urge you to talk to both the health department and PP if it's too expensive and explain your situation. Go to social services and see if you can get some support; fill out a FAFSA form and go back to school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using government aide like EBT cards and WIC and money for school and childcare and healthcare if you're bettering yourself. You'll pay it back as a productive citizen. That's what these programs are for.
Well hun, we all (myself included) have made mistakes. You live and you learn and you get past it. You'll be stronger for it in the long run, that's for sure. You definitely have a good head on your shoulders now.
Exactly.
OverTheStars
06-08-09, 07:35 PM
I just can't understand why I was denied the tubal ligation. I can't imagine why the doctor thought it would be in my best interest to have the option of having more children available. I'm at high risk of getting pregnant again. Now that I'm no longer covered by that program, the option is completely out of reach.
I even asked the doctor if she knew anyone who would do the procedure on me, and she said she'd call me back. I guess no one in my State believes in it? It's outrageous.
takandjive
06-08-09, 07:43 PM
You are VERY young. Keep trying. Try researching online on women's health boards.
Mickmeister
06-16-09, 10:06 AM
If a twenty-one year old girl came to you asking for a tubal ligation, would you refuse? What if she already has two children? In most cases, a doctor would refuse to preform the procedure because of the chance that the woman may one day want children. But if she already has children at her young age, who would it benefit if she has another pregnancy?
As far as I know, there is a reverse procedure for tubal ligation for women who changed their mind, and want children again.
So would you do it?
It is stupid. I had a vasectomy when I was 29 because of several reasons, besides the fact that I don't want to be around kids. The doctor was very reluctant to do it because I didn't have children. I have talked to others in the same predicament when doctors either refuse or give them a lecture. I have no regrets about it either. When my wife and I met, she was also thrilled when she found out about it.
The problem you have afterwards is the horror and shock idiots display when they find out that you don't have and don't want kids. People act like it is a duty to have kids and if you don't, what's wrong. I have had people act like it is a mortal sin. STUPID!
For men, you still have to have checkups every now and then to make sure you are still sterile. I do my own. All you need is a 400x microscope and some slides to see if anything is swimming!
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