Cheapest Form of Good Nutrition? [Archive]

Carcano

05-26-09, 07:15 PM

On a price to weight basis, what is the cheapest form of quality nutrition?

At approx one dollar per kilogram my vote goes to *parboiled* rice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parboiled_rice

Parboiled rice is rice that has been boiled in the husk. Parboiling makes rice easier to process by hand, improves its nutritional profile, and changes its texture.

Parboiling rice drives nutrients, especially thiamine, from the bran into the grain, so that parboiled white rice is 80% nutritionally similar to brown rice. Because of this, parboiling was adopted by North American rice growers in the early 20th century.

Orleander

05-26-09, 07:17 PM

raw fish, guts, bones, eyes and all.

Carcano

05-27-09, 07:23 AM

raw fish, guts, bones, eyes and all.
Cold water fish is the only animal product I consume.

I believe that humans have biologically adapted to seafood simply because its the *easiest* form of food to acquire from the natural world.

Catching a fish, or harvesting oysters for example is easier than constructing a weapon and hunting down a moose.

And its FAR easier than clearing land and growing crops.

Xerxes

05-27-09, 07:30 AM

Well, if we're talking amount of nutrition/price then a food can be more expensive yet cheaper overall. My vote goes to spinach or kale.

Sciencelovah

05-27-09, 07:35 AM

Carcano

05-27-09, 07:44 AM

I don't go for cheap foods anymore, because basically all foods are cheap, if you cook them yourselves.
Still, there is a huge difference between the price of foods considered to be inexpensive.

I should have said price to calories rather than price to weight.

Comparing rice, potatoes, corn and wheat for example...parboiled rice yields far more calories per dollar.

Sciencelovah

05-27-09, 07:53 AM

Still, there is a huge difference between the price of foods considered to be inexpensive.

I should have said price to calories rather than price to weight.

Comparing rice, potatoes, corn and wheat for example...parboiled rice yields far more calories per dollar.

If you live in first world country, no matter how expensive your food is, I am sure food expenses is below than 10% of your overall income (if you cook them yourselves instead of buying ready made ones in restaurants). Meanwhile, more expensive foods are normally have better quality, and could improve your health significantly. Also, I don't think carbohydrates sources (like you mentioned above) are significantly different in term of prices compared to your overall income.

phlogistician

05-27-09, 09:58 AM

If you live in first world country, no matter how expensive your food is, I am sure food expenses is below than 10% of your overall income .

And that's why we can, and should afford ourselves ethically sourced produce. Not only is it better for us, it's better for the land the produce is grown on (fewer pesticides) or the animals we eat (less intensive farming means a lessened risk of disease spreading amongst livestock.)

So I'm with you, I go for the better stuff, and enjoy it all the more. I just can't eat battery chicken or eggs anymore.

Sciencelovah

05-27-09, 10:06 AM

lucifers angel

05-27-09, 10:07 AM

on average what is your weekly shopping bills?

i spend £150 a week just on food, that is to feed 3 kids and one adult, i go for the more expensvie things because "qaulity not quantity"

Sciencelovah

05-27-09, 10:16 AM

on average what is your weekly shopping bills?

i spend £150 a week just on food, that is to feed 3 kids and one adult, i go for the more expensvie things because "qaulity not quantity"

A week? When I invite nobody, a week is about 35-40 Euro (for food). That includes all supplements and occasional visit to coffee shop. I always have lunch in Uni mensa, but prepare my own breakfast and dinner.

Edit: in your currency, that's about £30-35 per week. For 5 people like your family, that's about the same.

Absane

05-27-09, 10:38 AM

I spend about $40-$50 on food. Chicken, eggs, bacon, steak, veggies, etc.

lucifers angel

05-27-09, 10:55 AM

A week? When I invite nobody, a week is about 35-40 Euro (for food). That includes all supplements and occasional visit to coffee shop. I always have lunch in Uni mensa, but prepare my own breakfast and dinner.

Edit: in your currency, that's about £30-35 per week. For 5 people like your family, that's about the same.

yeah i know its a lot but i belive that quality is better than qauntity, also i have to buy special diet food for my younger child, because of his condition

John99

05-27-09, 12:02 PM

i guess we are talking about for low income. in that case i would say some kind of soup and as has been mentioned dont overlook a chicken egg. if you have an egg you can always just crack it open and throw it into the hot water for the soup too.

wynn

05-27-09, 12:03 PM

On a price to weight basis, what is the cheapest form of quality nutrition?

What do you mean by 'quality nutrition'?
In order to get all the necessary nutrients, humans have to eat quite versatile foodstuffs.

Carcano

05-27-09, 02:35 PM

What do you mean by 'quality nutrition'?
In order to get all the necessary nutrients, humans have to eat quite versatile foodstuffs.
Theres your definition...a quality food contains a diverse range of nutrients, and a minimum of toxicity.

Naturally, this would exclude Wonder Bread!

Xerxes

05-27-09, 06:20 PM

And that's why we can, and should afford ourselves ethically sourced produce. Not only is it better for us, it's better for the land the produce is grown on (fewer pesticides) or the animals we eat (less intensive farming means a lessened risk of disease spreading amongst livestock.)

So I'm with you, I go for the better stuff, and enjoy it all the more. I just can't eat battery chicken or eggs anymore.

Exactly.

If I can, I avoid franken-factory foods. Not because it's better for the environment or because I give a shit about working conditions, but because it tastes better and is healthier (usually). Food is one of the few things I do not cheap out on.

Carcano

05-27-09, 09:51 PM

Lets have a show of hands....how many people like hospital food?

Nobody???

Thats because the menu is set up like the worse restaurant you can imagine, with a wide variety of culinary horrors!

It would be cheaper AND healthier to have the same food everyday with a higher standard of quality.

8:00am - One large glass of grape or apple juice at room temperature.

11:00am - A stir fry of parboiled rice topped with cabbage, chopped celery, snow peas, red peppers, etc.

6:00pm - One or two raisin bran muffins with tea or coffee.

phlogistician

05-28-09, 03:34 AM

Lets have a show of hands....how many people like hospital food?.

Can't really recall the food I got given during my last hospital stay. I was in a lot of pain with a broken leg, and then pretty phased with strong pain meds though, so didn't really give a rat's ass what I was eating.

Orleander

05-28-09, 02:38 PM

I spend about $250 a month on groceries. But we buy 1/4 a cow and 1/2 a pig every year and my husband fishes all spring/summer. I probably spend more money on fruit than anything else.

kmguru

05-28-09, 10:02 PM

Today I bought chicken thighs and legs for $0.58 per pound for weekend barbecue....

iceaura

05-28-09, 11:08 PM

Lets have a show of hands....how many people like hospital food? My jaw was wired shut, I had a tracheotomy in place, hadn't eaten in 48 hours, and they brought me a pork chop with a side dish of green slurry that I think started out as green beans in its former life.

Then they woke me up every 90 minutes for whatever reason.

A couple months of that and I'd have been too sick to leave.

The best nutrition for the money is road kill and dandelions. If you are shopping in, like, a grocery store, I'd go for baby potatoes and very large bulk carrots baked and mashed with the skin on, then fried in lard with a few peanuts.

Although a mixture of brown rice and red beans is traditional, with the very poor getting the ratio exactly right.

Carcano

05-29-09, 10:09 AM

If you are shopping in a grocery store, I'd go for baby potatoes...
Yes, I'd place WHITE potatoes second to parboiled rice as the cheapest form of nutrition.

Only unpeeled white potatoes are FIRM enough to be good without deep frying.

John99

05-29-09, 10:11 AM

The best nutrition for the money is road kill and dandelions.

you can eat dandelions?

Carcano

05-29-09, 10:41 AM

you can eat dandelions?

http://www.themanicgardener.com/the_manic_gardener/images/2008/06/06/dandelion_salad.jpeg

Wild lettuce is also very good...with narcotic properties to boot! :bugeye:

Mickmeister

05-29-09, 10:43 AM

On a price to weight basis, what is the cheapest form of quality nutrition?

cheap nutrition <> good nutrition

S.A.M.

05-29-09, 10:52 AM

An egg. It contains little fat or carbohydrate and good quality complete protein. Rice, parboiled or not, is an incomplete source of protein and essential fatty acids.

Absane

05-29-09, 10:54 AM

cheap nutrition <> good nutrition

Look at the poor in the US. If they aren't skinny as fuck they are fatter than Albert. The theory is that all they can afford is the cheap food that contains a ton of high fructose corn syrup. Combine that with over eating due to the non-filling effects of HCF and you have lard asses on welfare.

An egg. It contains little fat or carbohydrate and good quality complete protein. Rice, parboiled or not, is an incomplete source of protein and essential fatty acids.

I eat 5 eggs every morning.. and 5 strips of bacon.

John99

05-29-09, 10:55 AM

http://www.themanicgardener.com/the_manic_gardener/images/2008/06/06/dandelion_salad.jpeg

Wild lettuce is also very good...with narcotic properties to boot! :bugeye:

thats interesting. seems like they wuld be bitter. have you tried the dandelions?

S.A.M.

05-29-09, 11:03 AM

I eat 5 eggs every morning.. and 5 strips of bacon.

Why?:confused:

Absane

05-29-09, 11:05 AM

Why?:confused:

Why not?

Carcano

05-29-09, 11:05 AM

An egg. It contains little fat or carbohydrate and good quality complete protein.
The fat content is only slightly less than the protein content..however its quality can be improved by feeding the chickens kelp instead of grain.

Carcano

05-29-09, 11:07 AM

Seems like they would be bitter. have you tried the dandelions?
Raw dandelions...and yes they are bitter!

Carcano

05-29-09, 11:08 AM

Rice, parboiled or not, is an incomplete source of protein and essential fatty acids.
Have you tried parboiled?

Its very popular in India.

Basmati tastes like paper in comparison.

Carcano

05-29-09, 11:09 AM

Look at the poor in the US. If they aren't skinny as fuck they are fatter than Albert. The theory is that all they can afford is the cheap food that contains a ton of high fructose corn syrup. Combine that with over eating due to the non-filling effects of HCF and you have lard asses on welfare.
Junk food is not cheap!

Absane

05-29-09, 11:18 AM

Junk food is not cheap!

How so?

In general, crap food is cheaper than healthy food. This is because crap food is processed to death to make it cheaper and last longer. People buy TV dinners because they are lazy but also because they pack a lot of calories for cheap.

Wheat bread costs more than white bread. Orange juice from concentrate costs more than orange juice that wasn't dehydrated.

Calories per dollar are higher for junk food than healthy food. Not every time, but in general.

wynn

05-29-09, 01:22 PM

Today I bought chicken thighs and legs for $0.58 per pound for weekend barbecue....

You eat meat??

-

you can eat dandelions?

Sure. Not the flowers, but the leaves, early in the spring before the plants start to blossom.
For example: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/tender-dandelion-salad-recipe.html

A very satiating food is a salad made of dandelion greens and potatoes.

wynn

05-29-09, 01:29 PM

Rice, parboiled or not, is an incomplete source of protein and essential fatty acids.

Exactly. Which is why I find the quest of this OP with its suggestion of parboiled rice to be misleading.
There is no one food source that could cover all the nutritional needs.

-

Calories per dollar are higher for junk food than healthy food. Not every time, but in general.

Sure. But you can't live merely off of calories, so the price of calories per kilogram is hardly any indicator of cheapest form of good nutrition.

Absane

05-29-09, 04:35 PM

Sure. But you can't live merely off of calories, so the price of calories per kilogram is hardly any indicator of cheapest form of good nutrition.

Did I ever make such a claim?

My only claim was that poor people are fat because the inexpensive food they eat isn't very healthy. You can buy a bag of chips for $2 that supplies 1,500 calories. I know because I used to live off food like that when I lived in the dorms. Ramen Noodles is just as bad. I also lived on 2-liters of Mountain Dew.

Carcano

05-29-09, 05:02 PM

There is no one food source that could cover all the nutritional needs.
Yes but this thread isnt about ONE food source that covers everything...its about the BEST food source relative to its price and nutritive value.

Carcano

05-29-09, 05:07 PM

My only claim was that poor people are fat because the inexpensive food they eat isn't very healthy.
The crappy food they eat IS expensive compared to good nutrition.

Kraft Dinner is more expensive than the lovely home fries I just made...which cost no more than maybe 65 cents.

Cherrios cost more than oatmeal...which is far more nutritious and satisfying.

justwonderingjoe

05-29-09, 05:54 PM

I don't know how cheap these foods are, but I found this.http://www.wethechange.com/the-5-greatest-foods-for-your-health/

wynn

05-30-09, 12:16 AM

Did I ever make such a claim?

No, and I wasn't arguing against what you said. But you did bring up the issue of calories and I commented on that.
Like I said earlier, 'I find the quest of this OP with its suggestion of parboiled rice to be misleading. There is no one food source that could cover all the nutritional needs.' And which is why I said that we can't focus only on the price of calories per kilogram.

I know because I used to live off food like that when I lived in the dorms. Ramen Noodles is just as bad. I also lived on 2-liters of Mountain Dew.

I can relate!

-

The crappy food they eat IS expensive compared to good nutrition.

Totally. One of the reasons I mostly refrain from white bread, pasta and any store-bought food is because it is so expensive.
I can buy two kilograms of barely (hulled) for the price of a medium bread loaf (0.7 kg) or about 0.7 kg of non-egg pasta. It takes quite a while to eat two kilos of barley, not to mention its excellent nutritional qualities.
Obviously, the barley pays off better in many ways.

Kraft Dinner is more expensive than the lovely home fries I just made...which cost no more than maybe 65 cents.

In those 65 cents, did you include the prices for oil, salt, use of electricity / gas, use of stove, use of pots, use of kitchen space, water, disposal, and work?

Yes but this thread isnt about ONE food source that covers everything...its about the BEST food source relative to its price and nutritive value.

That is very relative!

Buckwheat, barley and soy are among the most nutritious food sources. But the prices may vary quite a bit from country to country.

Xerxes

05-30-09, 03:54 AM

I found this article which might be of interest
http://www.wethechange.com/the-5-greatest-foods-for-your-health/

Carcano

05-30-09, 10:27 AM

In those 65 cents, did you include the prices for oil, salt, use of electricity / gas, use of stove, use of pots, use of kitchen space, water, disposal, and work?

If anything would counter-balance the cost it would be the electricity.

The teaspoon of canola oil and a pinch of salt and cayenne are negligible.

Still, as a liberal estimate the kilowatt hour used only cost 11 cents.

wise acre

05-30-09, 09:05 PM

Did I ever make such a claim?

My only claim was that poor people are fat because the inexpensive food they eat isn't very healthy. You can buy a bag of chips for $2 that supplies 1,500 calories. I know because I used to live off food like that when I lived in the dorms. Ramen Noodles is just as bad. I also lived on 2-liters of Mountain Dew.
You can get a decent amount of brown rice for 2 dollars.

S.A.M.

05-30-09, 11:24 PM

Have you tried parboiled?

Its very popular in India.

Basmati tastes like paper in comparison.

1. Can't stand parboiled rice

2. I prefer ambamori rice

3. If you think basmati can "taste like paper" compared to parboiled rice, you've never eaten basmati rice.

Carcano

05-30-09, 11:46 PM

3. If you think basmati can "taste like paper" compared to parboiled rice, you've never eaten basmati rice.
Basmati has a vaguely nutty taste but is still papery in its inherent emptiness.

S.A.M.

05-31-09, 12:02 AM

If it was real basmati you had eaten, you could not possibly think it papery or empty. :eek:

wynn

05-31-09, 11:36 AM

2. I prefer ambamori rice

What is this? Google couldn't find anything.

If it was real basmati you had eaten, you could not possibly think it papery or empty.

Actually, I think it is possible that even real basmati tasted poorly to him. There could be a number of reasons for that. One of them being that his sense of taste wasn't adjusted to the new taste yet.

When I first switched to vegetarian food, introduced many new kinds of grains and legumes and started cooking all my food myself, the food at first tasted quite bland - and I am sure it wasn't the way I prepared the food that could be blamed.
It apparently simply took awhile to get used to the new tastes, and in time, I began to better distinguish between the tastes and they became clearer.

wynn

05-31-09, 11:46 AM

The teaspoon of canola oil and a pinch of salt and cayenne are negligible.

Sure, but you still had to buy them, and in a quantity relatively large to the amount you use for one cooking session. All things cost.

830hobbes

10-27-11, 10:54 AM

Actually, there's a website that does this. nutrimentumfood.com/App/

elte

12-11-11, 08:13 AM

You eat meat??

-

Sure. Not the flowers, but the leaves, early in the spring before the plants start to blossom.
For example: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/tender-dandelion-salad-recipe.html

A very satiating food is a salad made of dandelion greens and potatoes.

I find the leaves too bitter in general. The flowers are the part that seem to agree with me better. But there isn't a lot of wild and green space nearby to get wild greens from here.

kwhilborn

12-11-11, 02:33 PM

@ OP Carcano,
I did not know this about parboiled rice and am very up to date and well read on nutrition topics.. thanks for the post.

Edit: My wife knew, and we have a huge bag of parboiled rice in the house before i read this ..

scheherazade

12-11-11, 02:37 PM

Perhaps S.A.M. means Ambamore Rice?

Ambamore rice is grown in the eastern belt of India, especially in states like West Bengal, Chattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh. The grains of this rice variety are round in shape with a smooth texture and creamy white color. The average length of the rice grain is 4mm with 14 to 15% of moisture content. Ambamore rice has a pleasant aroma and tastes good when cooked.

http://www.indiamart.com/ritefood-products/other-products.html

Captain Kremmen

12-11-11, 06:20 PM

1. Can't stand parboiled rice

2. I prefer ambamori rice

3. If you think basmati can "taste like paper" compared to parboiled rice, you've never eaten basmati rice.

Good Rice should be fragrant and fluffy, and not stick together.
We have a rice called Tilda which is very good, and not expensive by Western standards. 5kg for £10 or so.
No doubt that would buy a great deal more in India.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61D6udiabZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Very pleasant to eat, but can any white rice be called good nutrition?
Isn't it just high calorie carbohydrate?
Good as a low cost energy supplier, but poor in nutrients.

Fraggle Rocker

12-11-11, 07:45 PM

Very pleasant to eat, but can any white rice be called good nutrition? Isn't it just high calorie carbohydrate? Good as a low cost energy supplier, but poor in nutrients.No. Grains are high in protein. Although the amino acids are not properly balanced so you need to augment a grain-intensive diet with nuts and seeds, which have a complementary protein profile, or just a little bit of dairy which has all the amino acids.

But more to your point, even whole grains are not a complete diet for humans--or most mammals for that matter, just the ones with a rich culture of gut flora like cows and elephants and bunny rabbits. They have a few of the vitamins and minerals that are removed by the refining process, but they do not have all the nutrients we need.

Putting together a complete, well-balanced vegetarian diet is not terribly difficult with today's knowledge of biochemistry and today's food technology, but still it's not something a person would stumble onto accidentally.

In fact when farming was first invented twelve thousand years ago, it kicked off a negative trend in human health that was not reversed until the Modern Era. By the era of the Roman Empire, the population density was so great that it was not economically feasible to set aside huge swaths of land for grazing herds very close to the cities. The slow and costly transportation technology of the era, coupled with the primitive food-storage technology, made it unaffordable for the average city-dweller to eat meat very often, and even dairy foods (it's ten times as resource-efficient to raise cattle for milk than for meat) were not a staple for the average Roman.

As a result most people ate a grain-intensive diet. Nobody knew about vitamins and minerals in those days, so all they were getting (even from whole grains) was an adequate intake of protein and calories. The average life expectancy of a commoner who had already survived the high infant mortality rate fell from the low 50s in the Paleolithic Era to the low 20s in the Roman Era!

If the Christian occupying armies had not obliterated the Aztec and Inca civilizations, it's not clear what the future would have held in store for them as their population increased and crowding became a problem in their empires. The only grain they were able to cultivate in the New World was corn, which is an absolutely wretched source of nutrition compared to wheat and rice.

NietzscheHimself

12-13-11, 11:59 AM

Egg nog and sausage/cheese puffs...

What more could you ask for?

Captain Kremmen

12-13-11, 12:06 PM

What's Egg Nog?

scheherazade

12-13-11, 12:10 PM

Egg nog and sausage/cheese puffs...

What more could you ask for?

A treadmill or other exercise device to burn off the calories? ;)

Eggnog, without the rum, averages 343 calories per 8 ounce glass.

Sausage cheese puffs average 60 calories per piece.

http://images.media-allrecipes.com/global/recipes/small/145490.jpg

Still, the holiday season only comes once a year, so one might as well enjoy....in moderation. And my motto is ALL things in moderation, including moderation itself, lol....:D