Antidepressants, Miracle Drugs, Poison or Placebo?

Modern antidepressants have been blamed for deadly shooting rampages and violent suicides. At the same time, they’ve been hailed as miracle drugs that transform baleful Eeyore-types into bouncing Tiggers.

Now the latest review of the research claims that the effects of the drugs are only marginally different from those of placebos or sugar pills.

It seems impossible that the same substances in the same dosage ranges could simultaneously be poison, miracle drug and placebo. But the diversity of responses is remarkable—and it points to the possibilities and pitfalls of personalized medicine.


If you look at a large scale trial,” Tranter continues, “You may get a slight shift overall. That could mean on the whole, everyone is a little bit better compared to placebo but it could also mean that within the group, some did really, really well and some did OK and some got worse, but overall, it looks like a small shift in the right direction.”

Two other complications are noted by psychiatrist Peter Kramer, author of Listening to Prozac. First, early data—of the kind included in the meta-analysis which found antidepressants no better than placebo—often fails to show results for drugs that later prove very effective. “We have medications that show effectiveness in post-stroke depression, in the elderly with multiple brain lesions, in people with chronic, intractable depression. Why do they only not work in the early trials?” he asks.

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/depression/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100202836&Gt1=31009

 

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I've had some atrocious problems with antidepressants and I've also had them be lifesavers. I took Effexor as a teenager, and the effects were pretty terrible. Lexipro was a great medication for me after that, and I resumed taking it for a brief period.

AD's are not a cure all. However, when you're going through medical problems that are extremely painful, depression almost always follows, and you can't just manage it with pain medication that clouds your mind, or at least I can't. I'm not a blue person when I'm physically well, but I'll be damned if my choice is be miserable or be stoned and an idiot.

 

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My answer to the thread title is...
yes.

 

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With vastly greater cost to the client and of course the whole range of adverse reactions and side effects.

Further the drugs can be seen as suppressing the symptoms of people reacting to modern society rather than addressing the illness of modern society.

Making people feel ok about their stressful panic filled lives can also be counterproductive.

Imagine giving every person who has a stomach ache morphine.

 

I can see how some anti depressants could work in theory... some of them are messing with serotonin levels in the brain, and serotonin is what makes you happy (among other things). They also mess around with receptors of serotonin - instead of making you happy (+) or sad (-) they make you numb (0) by blocking the receptors from absorbing "sad" or "happy" brain chems.

I got myself on antidepressants for about a month a long time ago because I didn't realize all the nuances of it at the time - I believed there's a linear relationship: eat AD pills --> not sad.

But the medicine ended up being shit. It did mess around with my serotonin, but instead of regulating my mood it regulated my appetite, making me not hungry and even nauseous. It also upset my stomach during the "comedown" phase - yes there was a comedown phase. During that phase I couldn't concentrate so it messed with my studying... As for my depression at the time, it didn't make any difference whatsoever. I had to rely on getting myself high as fuck on all kinds of things, and change my environment - only then it stopped. But the pills turned out to be useless.

I'm not a conspiracy theory nut, but I do think that the pharma industry is full of shit in many ways. They often create false hopes in the form of a pill, fund research the result of which is full of caveats, while regular folks only want a simple answer of "it helps" or "it doesn't help". When people are sick, they are more susceptible to buying snake oil, and worse, believing that it works. They WANT to believe.

See, when a pill turns a person into a zombie with an upset stomach, that is not the same as making the person not depressed anymore. Many people don't realize or understand it, or don't even care (e.g. "well, at least my daughter is not suicidal anymore...")

There are natural remedies to depression, and most of them are social interactions and sports.

 

If you look at the paper, they say that the improvement in the effectiveness of the drugs over placebos increases with the severity of the depression; people who are only slightly or moderately depressed are about as well off taking placebos, while people who are severely depressed do significantly better with real drugs than with placebos.

Unfortunately there's probably no way to proscribe placebos for people who are only moderately depressed without them realizing it.

 

Despite my name (which is just my favourite colour) I've only tried A.D. once. It didn't change me one way or the other.

I'm inclined to agree with otheadp above that social interaction and keeping busy are the best cure for depression / madness.

 

I use Wellbutrin and Lithium in combination and together they work very well for me. I have no side effects and my depression is under fairly good control.

 

Depressed people want to believe that they're suffering from a disease so they can take the responsibility of it off themselves - then they can just take the latest rat poison the pharmacies are doggy bagging for their drive-thru convenience and hope that one day some scientist will find the end-all cure.

Here's a wake-up call: You're the illness. You're the cure. There are no quick fixes, only doing things the righter way or the wronger way.

Asperger's syndrome isn't a disease - it's just being a complete noob at the social game and can be cured by paying attention. Depression isn't a disease - it's just being fake and not fulfilling yourself with your true desires.

 

And for people who are incapable of social interaction, or flee from it at the first opportunity because of anxiety/insecurity issues?

Ideally, anti-depressants are used like a cast on a broken arm. When they are used to try and make an intolerable situation tolerable (doomed relationships, toxic workplaces, etc.) they will eventually lose effectiveness, and the problem will still be there.

 

It's really wonderful how we have medical experts willing to share their expert opinions with us here at SciForums. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you don't have a problem!" Certainly not one that is, at least to a degree, heritable, and found more often in some families than others. Not one that causes many people to self medicate, and turn to alcohol, or even harder drugs, because of an inability to cope. Nevermind the ones who commit suicide.

If Asperger's syndrome(which is a mild form of autism) isn't real, then I'm to assume that you do not believe that autism is real either?

 

I never said depression doesn't exist. People get depressed.

Here's where we differ:

Why?

You seem to think it's caused by a chemical imbalance - that the chemical imbalance is the root. In my own experience, and I know quite a few depressed people, it seems to be caused by their choices - hence I don't have any inclination that this phenomenon is a disease (which is a code word for "it's not your fault").

I never said depression wasn't a problem - I think it is a major problem - and a problem that desperately needs to be addressed and handled correctly.

As for autism, there are plenty of signs in a true autistic for a relatively simple diagnosis but with Asperger's syndrome, I've seen many whom are perfectly sociable and display little to no indication of anxiety when in a social situation. I'm willing to bet that an "asperger" would become more comfortable in a social situation after being diagnosed (without taking any medication) solely because they've had the responsibility of their actions taken away from them and consequently feel justified in their behavior. What's more, the diagnosis for Asperger's is vague - which is another red flag for ulterior motives on the part of doctors and pharmaceutical companies. Health and medicine is big business.

 

Experts in the field tend to think that clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. That is the opinion that matters, not mine, and certainly not yours, since you view the entire medical industry through the lens of conspiracy theories. Your anecdotes don't seem to take into consideration why the depressed people you know make these choices. Why some are depressed while others are not isn't fully understood. But people so predisposed can easily enter negative feedback loops where they see no way out, and turn to drugs (or even more drastically suicide), where a person not so predisposed might only view their problems as a temporary setback.

That Asperger's might be over diagnosed does not mean it doesn't exist. And yes, some people who have it, and find out after a lifetime of being a failure at social interactions do find it a relief to be diagnosed. If a person has been missing out on the real meanings of subtle cues such as body language, facial expressions, and pauses in conversations, they can try and consciously make themselves aware of them, since they aren't innately.

 

Logical fallacy: Appeal to Authority.

I'm giving mankind the benefit of the doubt that we each have free will. If you believe in a completely deterministic universe, then what is the point of you debating about this? Things are going to turn out a certain way no matter what you do.

 

The actual fallacy is Appeal to misleading authority. Though psychiatrists and psycho pharmacologists may not have the complete and definitive answer on the causes and cures of depression (and most likely they would be the first to say so) it is their field of expertise, and as such their opinion carries much more weight than mine or yours.

There isn't much point in having a discussion with someone who seems to allow for magic. And it is mystifying why someone who seems to believe in magic would be posting on a science forum.

 

At what point did I attribute the cause for these phenomena to be magic?

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medicate everyone ... I like the idea of morphine for a stomach ache

oh doctor please some more of these ..outside the door I'll take four more
what a drag it is getting old


Are you looking for Adult Asperger's Syndrome Symptoms? Have you always felt like you are different from everyone else around you? The odd one out, never able to fit in? Have you always wondered why you could never relate to your peers? Did you have trouble making conversation when it seemed everyone else was laughing and carrying about so easily? Did you always want friends, but were never able to make them? Or maybe you never wanted friends and other people thought this was weird? Does being around lots of people make you nervous, do loud noises make you jump, do certain smells make you want to make a hasty retreat to the nearest exit?

Asperger symptoms in adults can stabilize over time and this provides them with opportunities to improve their social skills and behavior.

Asperger syndrome in adults has some common characteristics such as:

- Lack of managing appropriate social conduct

- High intelligence

- Anger management problems

- Controlling feelings such as depression, fear or anxiety

- Lack of empathy

- Inability to listen to others

- Inflexible thinking

- Repetitive routines provides feelings of security

- Stress when their routine suddenly changes

- Inability to think in abstract ways

- Specialised fields of interest

- Visual thinking

Depression and Anxiety in Adults Aspergers:

Aspergers in adults are prone for depression due to a much higher level of stress and anxiety.

Research has shown that the rate of anxiety symptoms in children or adults with Asperger Syndrome is much higher then average.

There are some common factors that could cause feelings of anxiety:

- Stress at work or in school

- Stress in a personal relationship such as marriage

- Financial stress

- Stress from an emotional trauma such as the death of a loved one

- Stress from a serious medical illness

- Side effects of medication

 

My mother was bi-polar and took anti-depressants when her depression reached a severe level. From an objective perspective, she was definitely not her self. In her case, the side effects seemed to do more damage then the drug was doing to actually help her.

 

Wow.. I hope you didn't give that answer too much thought.