Healing Cancer from the Inside Out [Archive]

Repo Man

03-29-09, 12:51 PM

Would you consider macrobiotics as homeopathic?

Since it is a diet, and not based on homeopathy, no. It is a rival form of nonsense. Found all I need to know about it here:
If a macrobiotic diet is healthy it is by accident, since foods are selected not for their physical or nutritional qualities, but for their metaphysical properties. Or, it is quite likely that many people, like its founders, improve physically on the diet not for what they take in but for what they discontinue, such as refined foods, meat, milk, and other animal products. All assignment of metaphysical properties to foods is arbitrary, but may be based on sympathetic magic.
http://skepdic.com/macrobiotics.html

stateofmind

03-29-09, 01:05 PM

Since it is a diet, and not based on homeopathy, no. It is a rival form of nonsense. Found all I need to know about it here:
If a macrobiotic diet is healthy it is by accident, since foods are selected not for their physical or nutritional qualities, but for their metaphysical properties. Or, it is quite likely that many people, like its founders, improve physically on the diet not for what they take in but for what they discontinue, such as refined foods, meat, milk, and other animal products. All assignment of metaphysical properties to foods is arbitrary, but may be based on sympathetic magic.
http://skepdic.com/macrobiotics.html

Lol! I've read 3 books on macrobiotics and I've never once read anything about the diet that was attributed to metaphysics. Maybe you should quit letting your "skepdicks" do your research for you. :p

And don't you think that part of your diet is what you you DON'T take in?

By the way.. have either you or spidergoat seen this movie I referenced in the title? If you get a chance to watch it please let me know what you think!

Repo Man

03-29-09, 01:44 PM

Lol! I've read 3 books on macrobiotics and I've never once read anything about the diet that was attributed to metaphysics. Maybe you should quit letting your "skepdicks" do your research for you. :p

So the concept of yin and yang isn't an integral part of the macrobiotic diet?

And don't you think that part of your diet is what you you DON'T take in?

A diet that eschews alcohol, fatty foods, etc. is what has been advocated by mainstream health authorities for decades now. People that do so are likely to be healthier than those who don't, with no need for mystical nonsense such as yin and yang.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 02:21 PM

How is yin/yang metaphysical? Can black exist without white? Can a front exist without a back? Male without female? It's a principle of the order of nature - it can be seen in all things.

justwonderingjoe

03-29-09, 02:29 PM

stateofmind

03-29-09, 02:54 PM

What movie was it that you saw?
Chemo is effective at shrinking tumors. Time is of the essence once a tumor is discovered. Who has time to shrink a tumor through diet?

The name of the movie is the thread title.

If you have visible signs or symptoms of a tumor then that indicates that it's been with you for a quite some time. For a tumor to be forming for 10 years unnoticed isn't uncommon today. Some people have had them developing for decades.

The rush for a decision that a doctor puts on his/her patient is unnecessary. The tumor didn't just appear the night before. It's a lot like a tree that's been growing for many years and then finally bears fruit. Once a cancer is found there is usually a considerable amount of time for the patient to research and decide what the best treatment is for themselves.

What's more, most people that are "cured" of cancer after chemotherapy (and from what I hear it's a fate worse than the cancer itself) usually revert and develop another cancer after a few years.

The success rate of this treatment is unbelievably low, and in stark contrast to the "good news" we hear or read every so often about the war on cancer. In reality, the progression that's been made in conventional cancer treatment since the 1930's has maybe only extended the death sentence by a couple of months.

In my opinion, it's completely logical and plausible that cancer is a result of an unhealthy diet and lifestyle. Through symptomatic medicine (the industry standard in the west) we can only ever slow down illnesses, but not cure them - because the root is still strong and healthy.

Call me a quack or an idiot but I'm of the firm belief that everything in the universe happens for a reason. Only if we find out the reason can we create lasting solutions.

justwonderingjoe

03-29-09, 03:47 PM

The name of the movie is the thread title.

If you have visible signs or symptoms of a tumor then that indicates that it's been with you for a quite some time. For a tumor to be forming for 10 years unnoticed isn't uncommon today. Some people have had them developing for decades.

The rush for a decision that a doctor puts on his/her patient is unnecessary. The tumor didn't just appear the night before. It's a lot like a tree that's been growing for many years and then finally bears fruit. Once a cancer is found there is usually a considerable amount of time for the patient to research and decide what the best treatment is for themselves.

What's more, most people that are "cured" of cancer after chemotherapy (and from what I hear it's a fate worse than the cancer itself) usually revert and develop another cancer after a few years.

The success rate of this treatment is unbelievably low, and in stark contrast to the "good news" we hear or read every so often about the war on cancer. In reality, the progression that's been made in conventional cancer treatment since the 1930's has maybe only extended the death sentence by a couple of months.

In my opinion, it's completely logical and plausible that cancer is a result of an unhealthy diet and lifestyle. Through symptomatic medicine (the industry standard in the west) we can only ever slow down illnesses, but not cure them - because the root is still strong and healthy.

Call me a quack or an idiot but I'm of the firm belief that everything in the universe happens for a reason. Only if we find out the reason can we create lasting solutions.

I wouldn't call you a quack at all, but some cancers present so advanced that something has to be done immediately. My late husband had a tumor so close to his windpipe that if chemo wasn't started to shrink it, the tumor would have choked off his air supply. Not alot of choices here.

Healthy lifestyle isn't always a guarantee that cancer won't develop. I hate to keep using my late husband as an example, but he was really healthy and young.

I know if I had a choice of slowing down a cancer and having a few more years, or dying right away... I would choose to stay, for as long as possible.
(but probably for my kids sake)

And finally, only through research of why cancers develop can any treatment ever be effective. Unfortunately, if you develop a rare cancer, there usually isn't enough research devoted to studying it to be of any help to the individual.

Everything in the universe happens for a reason.
Your preaching to the choir.:o

Oli

03-29-09, 04:01 PM

If homoeopathy were actually true then merely drinking tap water would be sufficient: it's been in contact with every disease you can think of and diluted more than enough.
It is quackery, pure and simple.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 04:11 PM

How is yin/yang metaphysical? Can black exist without white? Can a front exist without a back? Male without female? It's a principle of the order of nature - it can be seen in all things.

Citation needed. Show me objective evidence of the existence of yin and yang. I don't accept it as a matter of faith, I need proof. Any diet based on the concept of yin and yang is based on nonsense.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 04:15 PM

Everything in the universe happens for a reason.

I've always found this to be a laughable quote. Tell that to this little girl.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3136/wantingameal.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wantingameal.jpg)

justwonderingjoe

03-29-09, 04:41 PM

Repo Man

03-29-09, 04:53 PM

@Repo man.

That picture is very heartbreaking. I interpret the quote "Everything happens for a reason" as, very simply: in order for things to change or improve, somethings got to happen first, to bring it the issue to light, whether it's heartbreaking or not.
Take that picture you posted. It's horrible image. But did that stop the person from taking it? No. Do you think the person took it just to be mean? No. I assume they took the photo, and circulated it to bring this issue to light, and hopefully to bring attention to this plight. Everything happens for a reason.

The unstated assumption here is that there is a purpose to the universe, and all of the heartbreak and suffering is leading up to something. I'm unaware of any good reason to believe this. I cannot prove that it isn't true, I cannot prove that existence is futile and meaningless, but you cannot prove that this is all leading up to something. Since you are the one making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you.

The photographer later committed suicide.

justwonderingjoe

03-29-09, 05:13 PM

stateofmind

03-29-09, 05:14 PM

Show me objective evidence of the existence of yin and yang.

I already did but it seems you didn't understand it.

Now in regard to that picture you posted - how does this refute that everything happens for a reason? The reason that girl is in such a condition is because she doesn't have enough food or water to feed herself. The reason for that, in this specific situation (I think), is because of government politics and gang violence. The cause for gang violence is probably from a need of ample food, water and shelter - which leads back to government politics.

I'm not so well versed in African politics so I can't go into any detail. I'm sure there are many scholars that can shed a lot of light on this subject and give reasons for these tragedies.

All this is clear as day to me - I'm honestly amazed that you can't see it.

Oli

03-29-09, 05:23 PM

I already did but it seems you didn't understand it.
No, you picked selected examples and claimed they were evidence.
Hmm, opposites...
Gravity and...
Mass and...
Toast and...

Now in regard to that picture you posted - how does this refute that everything happens for a reason? The reason that girl is in such a condition is because she doesn't have enough food or water to feed herself. The reason for that, in this specific situation (I think), is because of government politics and gang violence. The cause for gang violence is probably from a need of ample food, water and shelter - which leads back to government politics.
Um, they are reasons WHY, not reasons FOR.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 05:24 PM

I wouldn't call you a quack at all, but some cancers present so advanced that something has to be done immediately.

That's why I said there is usually enough time to research and figure out the best decision for yourself. Despite this, I still think that a diet and lifestyle change would be better medicine even for this kind of situation - but of course that's my own opinion.

Healthy lifestyle isn't always a guarantee that cancer won't develop. I hate to keep using my late husband as an example, but he was really healthy and young.

Well maybe he was young be clearly he wasn't healthy if he developed cancer. Let's not jump to the conclusion that a healthy appearance automatically means health.

As far as a healthy lifestyle goes... I don't think many people even know what a healthy lifestyle is. How many changes has the western nutrition system been changed and modified in the last 50 years? Maybe 100 times? A thousand?

I know if I had a choice of slowing down a cancer and having a few more years, or dying right away... I would choose to stay, for as long as possible.
(but probably for my kids sake)

Of course you would want more time - but at what cost? Would you want more time in a living hell? Or would you want a shorter time in relative comfort? (although, given the information from the video, it looks like people who opt not to go through chemo actually live longer.)

Not to mention - as I've stated before - most people who survive chemo get cancer later on. It's not a lasting solution. It seems more like a sick money scheme - or if you're more optimistic about the state of things - innocent ignorance.

Thanks for your insights justwonderingjoe! I would like to hear what you think of the movie if you get a chance to see it. Let me know if you do.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 05:31 PM

Wall sockets have a positive and a negative! Proof of yin and yang all over the home! How could I have been so blind. Keep trying.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 05:33 PM

No, you picked selected examples and claimed they were evidence.
Hmm, opposites...
Gravity and...
Mass and...
Toast and...

Yin/yang are just names given to the phenomena of the dualistic nature of the universe - you could call it beep and bop or zub and splip if you wanted - its arbitrary.

It's an observable fact that in order for there to be black there must also be white. A sender requires a receiver. They give each other meaning. Lol, I really don't know how to make this any more clear. I guess just ask questions about something you don't understand about it and I'll try to answer them.

Um, they are reasons WHY, not reasons FOR.

Okay, let me break it down for you. This is the quote: Everything happens FOR a reason. I gave some potential reasons. What's the difference here? Are you wondering why people cause suffering to other people in the first place? A possible reason for that could be ignorance - not understand the consequences of their actions. I'm not intimately involved with that situation in Africa so I can't say with complete confidence what the real reasons are - but I'm sure they're there. Nothing is random. Nothing is chance. Everything happens for a reason. :)

stateofmind

03-29-09, 05:34 PM

Wall sockets have a positive and a negative! Proof of yin and yang all over the home! How could I have been so blind. Keep trying.

Good, you're getting closer to understanding it! You can't have positive without negative. We have a positive and a negative pole on the earth which creates this equilibrium that gives us the ability to live!

Repo Man

03-29-09, 05:41 PM

I didn't say "there is a purpose for the universe and all of the heartbreak and suffering is leading up to something" those are your words. You implied wrong.
I simply stated sometimes something heartbreaking occurs, which can in turn bring about a change for the better.
I love the argument "the burden of proof is on you" ~s~. We are talking about a thought, a personal philosophy, not a scientific experiment.

Do you attempt to comfort the parents of a young child who has been raped and killed by saying "Everything happens for a reason"? After all, maybe some good will come of it. Maybe they will watch their remaining children more carefully, right? Or how about, "Sorry your eight year old kid was bitten in half by a Great White shark while playing in the water, but everything happens for a reason."

Many good people who lead virtuous lives have horrible misfortunes happen to them. Many truly evil people prosper. Sometimes something heartbreaking occurs, and it goes on to shatter the lives all it touched. If this is a personal philosophy, what is it good for, selling Hallmark cards?

Repo Man

03-29-09, 05:42 PM

We have a positive and a negative pole on the earth which creates this equilibrium that gives us the ability to live!

What are you talking about?

Oli

03-29-09, 05:43 PM

Yin/yang are just names given to the phenomena of the dualistic nature of the universe - you could call it beep and bop or zub and splip if you wanted - its arbitrary.
The word is phenomenon.
And the "duality" is an assumption.
What's the opposite of toast?
The opposite of wind?
The opposite of hot?

It's an observable fact that in order for there to be black there must also be white.
No it's an assumption that there must be.

A sender requires a receiver.
No.
It's desirable to have a receiver (if you wish to receive), but not a proven sine qua non.
It could be a pointless sender, with no actual "purpose", maybe doing it for the joy of it...

Okay, let me break it down for you. This is the quote: Everything happens FOR a reason. I gave some potential reasons. What's the difference here?
Okay: what's the reason FOR humans?

Are you wondering why people cause suffering to other people in the first place? A possible reason for that could be ignorance - not understand the consequences of their actions.
Now you're getting it.
What's the reason for their ignorance?
What's the reason for people being incapable of not understanding their actions?
There's a reason WHY people are ignorant: no education.
But that is not a reason FOR it.
The little girl in the picture for example: if she hadn't been it that situation there'd be no need (no reason FOR) her plight to be brought to our attention and no need for a change in awareness.

Nothing is random. Nothing is chance. Everything happens for a reason. :)
Speculation.
Unfounded speculation.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 05:44 PM

I'm not so well versed in African politics so I can't go into any detail. I'm sure there are many scholars that can shed a lot of light on this subject and give reasons for these tragedies.

A cause isn't the same as a reason.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 05:59 PM

A cause isn't the same as a reason.

Define cause and define reason then please. You showed an effect - the girl that was starving. Cause and effect are inextricably bound. They turn into each other.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 06:11 PM

The word is phenomenon.
And the "duality" is an assumption.
What's the opposite of toast?
The opposite of wind?
The opposite of hot?

You can look at the same thing a million different ways. One opposite of toast would be a piece of toast that's composed to anti-matter.

The opposite of hot would be cold - this is a good example because it shows that all yin/yang is relative. 215 degrees is cold (yin) compared to 1000 degrees (yang) which are both hot compared to -10,000 degrees.

No it's an assumption that there must be.

If everything was black then how would you be able to recognize it?

No.
It's desirable to have a receiver (if you wish to receive), but not a proven sine qua non.
It could be a pointless sender, with no actual "purpose", maybe doing it for the joy of it...

If the sender has no intention of having anything received then he wouldn't be a sender, now would he?

Okay: what's the reason FOR humans?

We seem to have evolved here. As for our collective purpose - I don't know. It seems like a very profound question. I admit I don't have all the answers, not even close, but from what I've experienced this principle applies to all things.

Now you're getting it.
What's the reason for their ignorance?
What's the reason for people being incapable of not understanding their actions?
There's a reason WHY people are ignorant: no education.
But that is not a reason FOR it.
The little girl in the picture for example: if she hadn't been it that situation there'd be no need (no reason FOR) her plight to be brought to our attention and no need for a change in awareness.

The reason for their ignorance could be a lack of exposure to certain things. I still don't get your choice in the semantics over "why" and "for." Could you shed some more light on this?

It seems like you're asking me the reason for existence itself. I don't know that. Again that would be a very profound realization to uncover. But not understanding the ultimate reason for existence doesn't forbid me from understanding its order.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 06:16 PM

For reason I'll stick with "A statement offered in explanation or justification".

The proximate cause of the girl's starvation was a lack of food, though I don't know the particular long term cause. I'm not aware of anything that could justify it.

I'm still waiting for some clarification on the business of the Earth having a "positive and negative pole".

Oli

03-29-09, 06:20 PM

The opposite of hot would be cold - this is a good example because it shows that all yin/yang is relative. 215 degrees is cold (yin) compared to 1000 degrees (yang) which are both hot compared to -10,000 degrees.
Oops, you fell right in didn't you?
There is no such thing as "cold" it's merely the absence of heat.

If everything was black then how would you be able to recognize it?
By the contrast with green, blue, yellow... maybe?

If the sender has no intention of having anything received then he wouldn't be a sender, now would he?
Really?
you've never just shouted for joy, not expecting or requiring a response?

We seem to have evolved here. As for our collective purpose - I don't know. It seems like a very profound question. I admit I don't have all the answers, not even close, but from what I've experienced this principle applies to all things.
Exactly: as far as we know we just ARE.
No reason.

The reason for their ignorance could be a lack of exposure to certain things. I still don't get your choice in the semantics over "why" and "for." Could you shed some more light on this?
Reason/ cause.
Cause says that's WHY something happened.
Reason implies there is an underlying motive. (And I don't mean individual or collective human motives).

It seems like you're asking me the reason for existence itself. I don't know that. Again that would be a very profound realization to uncover. But not understanding the ultimate reason for existence doesn't forbid me from understanding its order.
No, reason implies motive.
So claiming "everything happens for a reason" implies that it was intended to happen because then such and such else would eventuate.
Everything happens because of a cause (okay... not getting too deep into THAT one :)), but NOT (as far as we can see) for a "reason".

stateofmind

03-29-09, 06:37 PM

Hot and cold both exist - they are feelings that we perceive.

If you shout for joy with no intention of relaying something then you're not a sender, you're a joyful shouter.

By the contrast with green, blue, yellow... maybe?

Only if they have pigments of white would that be possible but since white doesn't exist in this world - it isn't possible.

Reason/ cause.
Cause says that's WHY something happened.
Reason implies there is an underlying motive. (And I don't mean individual or collective human motives).

Even so, motives are phenomena that are driven by causes as well.

So claiming "everything happens for a reason" implies that it was intended to happen because then such and such else would eventuate.

Nope, what it implies is that everything is the result of natural consequences - no intention necessary.

Oli

03-29-09, 06:47 PM

Hot and cold both exist - they are feelings that we perceive
Cold is an absence of heat that we have chosen to label, it is not an actual "thing" the way heat is.
Similarly dark is an absence of light.
Lightness is a lack of weight.
Thinness is a lack of thickness.
Shortness is a lack of height, etc.
Which would mean that the yin for anything is the lack of that something, not its "opposite".
Is 1000 degrees C hot or cold?
It depends on what you're trying to do: it's too cold for steel manufacture, for example.

If you shout for joy with no intention of relaying something then you're not a sender, you're a joyful shouter.
You are still emitting a signal: the noise that comes out of your mouth.

Only if they have pigments of white would that be possible but since white doesn't exist in this world - it isn't possible.
What?
Blue with no white in is black? :rolleyes:
You are aware of primary colours aren't you?
And that black and white are shades, not colours.

Even so, motives are phenomena that are driven by causes as well.
Human motives probably so.
But you're evading or missing the point.

Nope, what it implies is that everything is the result of natural consequences - no intention necessary.
The use of the word "reason" itself contains the implication of intent.

Asguard

03-29-09, 07:48 PM

stateofmind your an idiot. The AMA may well be a cartal bully group but the science behind the treatments is ovious. As i tried to explaine to a former moron here there is NO evidence that homopathics work and i bet i would find the same with whatever your quakery is. Anything which refuses to stand up to scientific study should be dismissed. Where possable (in some instances its simply not possable like surgury) those studies should be DOUBLE BLIND RANDOMISED CONTROL TRIALS. If your pet theory has any of those i invite you to post COCHRANE reviews because they are the best there is in medical resurch, the gold standed

Otherwise stop pediling your nonsence to people who may well lose there LIVES if they belive your crap

http://www.cochrane.org/

stateofmind

03-29-09, 08:03 PM

Cold is an absence of heat that we have chosen to label, it is not an actual "thing" the way heat is.
Similarly dark is an absence of light.
Lightness is a lack of weight.
Thinness is a lack of thickness.
Shortness is a lack of height, etc.
Which would mean that the yin for anything is the lack of that something, not its "opposite".
Is 1000 degrees C hot or cold?
It depends on what you're trying to do: it's too cold for steel manufacture, for example.

Pure opposites would be the complete lack of the other's characteristics in a given medium. A relative equal amount of cold and hot, when put in contact with each other, will bring the temperature to the middle (whatever that middle is specified to be.) They both exist, relatively. And what you said about steel manufacturing is almost exactly what I said before.

What?
Blue with no white in is black? :rolleyes:
You are aware of primary colours aren't you?
And that black and white are shades, not colours.

You would have no shades - in order to have shades you'd have to have both black and white. Black + black cannot equal any kind of grey.

Human motives probably so.
But you're evading or missing the point.

You made a big deal about how reason implied motives. When I address that point now you say I'm missing the point? Lol.

The use of the word "reason" itself contains the implication of intent.

Lol, what else does "reason" imply that only you seem to be aware of? What is YOUR definition of reason - because clearly it's at odds with the rest of the world's.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 08:04 PM

Good, you're getting closer to understanding it! You can't have positive without negative. We have a positive and a negative pole on the earth which creates this equilibrium that gives us the ability to live!

Do you have an equally rigorous proof for the existence of a "soul" in humans? Or is that supposed to be self evident as well?

Oli

03-29-09, 08:13 PM

Pure opposites would be the complete lack of the other's characteristics in a given medium. A relative equal amount of cold and hot, when put in contact with each other, will bring the temperature to the middle (whatever that middle is specified to be.) They both exist, relatively. And what you said about steel manufacturing is almost exactly what I said before.
Then you should understand that cold cannot be the opposite of hot.

You would have no shades - in order to have shades you'd have to have both black and white. Black + black cannot equal any kind of grey.
Black+white is the definition of grey.
And no shades is okay if you've still got primary colours.

You made a big deal about how reason implied motives. When I address that point now you say I'm missing the point? Lol.
Because you did miss the point, not address it.
I'd already said Reason implies there is an underlying motive. (And I don't mean individual or collective human motives).

Lol, what else does "reason" imply that only you seem to be aware of? What is YOUR definition of reason - because clearly it's at odds with the rest of the world's.
That only I seem to be aware of?
Me and the rest of the thinking English-speakers in the world maybe.

reason
Dictionary: rea·son (rē'zən) pronunciation
n.

1. The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction. See Usage Note at because, why.
2. A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction: inquired about her reason for leaving.
What is "motive" except intent?
Hmm, who's at odds with the rest of the world?

stateofmind

03-29-09, 08:29 PM

What is "motive" except intent?

And you think that something's intent is just held in a vacuum without influence? With this kind of reasoning you'd be a perfect candidate for a soul believer!! :D

Then you should understand that cold cannot be the opposite of hot.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why should I understand that? You didn't even give reasons for this claim. :confused:

The fact is, black without white would have no meaning. There can be no action without an equal but opposite reaction.

It's like this: How can you recognize noise without silence? If all you ever experienced in life was a constant buzzing in your ears you would never know it was there?

Oli

03-29-09, 08:36 PM

And you think that something's intent is just held in a vacuum without influence? With this kind of reasoning you'd be a perfect candidate for a soul believer!! :D
I'm constantly amazed at your ability to miss the point.
From where does the intent come?

This doesn't make sense to me. Why should I understand that? You didn't even give reasons for this claim. :confused:
It's not a claim, it's a fact.
Cold is not the opposite of heat, it's a LACK of heat, or a lessening of it?
What's the opposite of 500 Deg C? What's the opposite of -273 Deg C?

The fact is, black without white would have no meaning. There can be no action without an equal but opposite reaction.
Ho ho ho.
The first is still supposition or superstition.
The second is spurious and facile. Black is an action?

It's like this: How can you recognize noise without silence? If all you ever experienced in life was a constant buzzing in your ears you would never know it was there?And you'd STILL recognise louder sounds, sounds at a different pitch, modulated sounds...
How do you think tinnitus sufferers manage?

stateofmind

03-29-09, 08:55 PM

I'm constantly amazed at your ability to miss the point.
From where does the intent come?

The intent of someone or something can come from an infinite variety of causes. Someone may have the intent to kill another because that person wronged them somehow.

It's not a claim, it's a fact.
Cold is not the opposite of heat, it's a LACK of heat, or a lessening of it?
What's the opposite of 500 Deg C? What's the opposite of -273 Deg C?

The opposite would depend on where you pick your middle. If you wanted the middle to be 0 then the opposite of 500 deg C (if you could isolate heat from the particles that create it) would be -500 deg C (and this is all assuming the metric system itself is equal and balanced, ie. 1 deg C cancels out -1 deg C.)

And you'd STILL recognise louder sounds, sounds at a different pitch, modulated sounds...
How do you think tinnitus sufferers manage?

Wow... you try to twist your arguments whenever you can! Don't you remember we were talking about completely eliminating the existence of an opposite? In this case I was talking about noise and silence. If silence DID NOT EXIST then there would be no varying levels of the buzzing. If there were varying levels then there were be sounds closer to and further from absolute silence - but since that pole isn't there, there can be no varying levels.

In reality there isn't any such thing as absolute silence or absolute sound. You can look at the phenomena of sound two ways. You could say at a noisy concert that there is very little silence there - or - you could say there is a lot of sound - and both would be correct.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 08:58 PM

In reality there isn't any such thing as absolute silence or absolute sound. You can look at the phenomena of sound two ways. You could say at a noisy concert that there is very little silence there - or - you could say there is a lot of sound - and both would be correct.

Have you had so much as a basic middle school science class? In the vacuum of space, there is perfect silence as there is no atmosphere for sound waves to travel through.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 09:00 PM

Have you had so much as a basic middle school science class? In the vacuum of space, there is perfect silence as there is no atmosphere for sound waves to travel through.

Untrue. There is still matter in space - but it's very little. Because there's such little matter there is consequently more silence - or less noise.

Oli

03-29-09, 09:08 PM

The intent of someone or something can come from an infinite variety of causes. Someone may have the intent to kill another because that person wronged them somehow.
You're STILL missing the point: I specifically stated - excluding human motives.
What is the motive for everything?
Why are we the way we are?
Back to example of the little girl in the photo: it's facile to say "there's a reason for her being in that state, that reason being: her plight brings an awareness that makes us help the world get better" since if she wasn't in that state in the first place there'd BE no reason for the world to improve.
There are human motives, granted.
But "everything happens for a reason" is wrong.

The opposite would depend on where you pick your middle.
So it's arbitary?
QED. Opposites are a human perception and not actual.

If you wanted the middle to be 0 then the opposite of 500 deg C (if you could isolate heat from the particles that create it) would be -500 deg C (and this is all assuming the metric system itself is equal and balanced, ie. 1 deg C cancels out -1 deg C.)
Really?
And if I told you that -500 Deg C is impossible...
-273 Deg C is absolute zero.
There is no lower temperature available...

Wow... you try to twist your arguments whenever you can! Don't you remember we were talking about completely eliminating the existence of an opposite?
The idea that opposites are "required" is an assumption.
In your case verging on religion.

In this case I was talking about noise and silence. If silence DID NOT EXIST then there would be no varying levels of the buzzing.
Speculation.
Unfounded and unproven.
And, going by your (flawed) temperature example: where's the balance point?
How do you get "negative sound"?

If there were varying levels then there were be sounds closer to and further from absolute silence - but since that pole isn't there, there can be no varying levels.
Again, speculation with no factual basis.

In reality there isn't any such thing as absolute silence or absolute sound. You can look at the phenomena of sound two ways. You could say at a noisy concert that there is very little silence there - or - you could say there is a lot of sound - and both would be correct.
You could say, but only one statement is physically correct - there is a lot of sound or there is very little sound.
"Silence" is a lack of sound.

Repo Man

03-29-09, 09:12 PM

Untrue. There is still matter in space - but it's very little. Because there's such little matter there is consequently more silence - or less noise.

This borders on flat out stupid. Yes, there is matter in space. There are planets and stars, nebulae, on and on. Even in intergalactic space there are a few hydrogen atoms per cubic centimeter. But it is well established that there is not nearly enough for sound waves to travel through.

Oli

03-29-09, 09:21 PM

Even in intergalactic space there are a few hydrogen atoms per cubic centimeter.
Just a small point: I was under the impression (from my classes many years ago) that the figure is around 1 hydrogen atom per very many cubic metres.
I have 1 per 109m3 in my head, but I'm not sure if that's right.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 09:34 PM

You're STILL missing the point: I specifically stated - excluding human motives.
What is the motive for everything?
Why are we the way we are?
Back to example of the little girl in the photo: it's facile to say "there's a reason for her being in that state, that reason being: her plight brings an awareness that makes us help the world get better" since if she wasn't in that state in the first place there'd BE no reason for the world to improve.
There are human motives, granted.
But "everything happens for a reason" is wrong.

I see the problem here. You're imbuing that quote with something that it doesn't actually contain. Look at it at face value. What it's saying is that there are no coincidences. I take it one step further and say that every action gets EXACTLY what it deserves - an equal and opposite reaction.

You follow?

So it's arbitary?
QED. Opposites are a human perception and not actual.

What does QED mean? And just to play devil's nit-picking skeptic here...

Speculation.
Unfounded and unproven. :D

Really?
And if I told you that -500 Deg C is impossible...
-273 Deg C is absolute zero.
There is no lower temperature available...

Like I said - where you pick the middle is arbitrary. From what I know about absolute zero - it's a theory, a concept - like the color black. Pure black doesn't exist in reality - it can only be approached. Likewise I'm guessing that absolute zero (assuming they have the number correct) is only approachable.

And, going by your (flawed) temperature example: where's the balance point?
How do you get "negative sound"?

The balance point is where you arbitrarily decide for it to be. The only reason we have "negative temperature" is because there's a common agreement (the metric system) which everyone uses - but it still picks a random middle, one that's convenient for us humans.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there -dB in sound theory?

You could say, but only one statement is physically correct - there is a lot of sound or there is very little sound.
"Silence" is a lack of sound.

We keep coming back to this point - so I guess it's our main point of divergence.

You attribute a lot of importance to "something" and no importance to "nothing" - but both are required to form reality. An atom is made of 99.9% space - mostly nothing.

Can you imagine if there was no space in the universe? We wouldn't be able to move - or form for that matter - because there would be no form. Form (something) requires space (nothing) in order to exist. Without space matter can't separate itself - it would be reduced to a point of infinite density (the Big Bang?)

You get what I'm trying to say?

Repo Man

03-29-09, 09:39 PM

Just a small point: I was under the impression (from my classes many years ago) that the figure is around 1 hydrogen atom per very many cubic metres.
I have 1 per 109m3 in my head, but I'm not sure if that's right.

I was going by Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space . Your source may be more accurate. At any rate, there is so little matter that there is no sound in space. Too great of a distance between atoms and molecules doesn't mean very little sound, it means none.

stateofmind

03-29-09, 09:42 PM

I was going by Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space . Your source may be more accurate. At any rate, there is so little matter that there is no sound in space. Too great of a distance between atoms and molecules doesn't mean very little sound, it means none.

If even one of those hydrogen atoms vibrated there would be a sound - imperceptible to the human ear, but a sound nonetheless.

Oli

03-29-09, 09:49 PM

I see the problem here. You're imbuing that quote with something that it doesn't actually contain. Look at it at face value.
I'm taking the statement at face value.
If that's not what is meant then it should be rephrased to state its meaning more clearly.

What it's saying is that there are no coincidences.
That is itself a supposition.
And only a supposition.

I take it one step further and say that every action gets EXACTLY what it deserves - an equal and opposite reaction.
Really?
And what "controls" this reaction?
Again, supposition.

You follow?
I think I take your meaning.
And disagree vehemently.

What does QED mean? And just to play devil's nit-picking skeptic here...
Literally: Quod Erat Demonstrandum, used after a mathematical formula to indicate that what was intended to be proved, has been.
I.e. QED means "as stated, so proven"

Like I said - where you pick the middle is arbitrary.
If the middle point is arbtitrary then any "opposites" are also arbitary.

From what I know about absolute zero - it's a theory, a concept - like the color black. Pure black doesn't exist in reality - it can only be approached. Likewise I'm guessing that absolute zero (assuming they have the number correct) is only approachable.
it's a fact.
It's approachable, certainly.
And most definitely not passable.
Therefore -500 C is impossible.

The balance point is where you arbitrarily decide for it to be. The only reason we have "negative temperature" is because there's a common agreement (the metric system) which everyone uses - but it still picks a random middle, one that's convenient for us humans.
No, it's not random, it's based on physical properties.
That of water.
And it's also not a middle point.
Absolute zero (-273) is fixed point, where the upper limit is has yet to established AFAIK. Regardless, it's far far higher than +273.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there -dB in sound theory?
There's a system of "measurement" that works in negative, but that's based on an arbitrarily chosen level.
E.g. if you pick 100 dB as your baseline then 25 dB is read as -75.
(Just to add to the confusion, a friend of mine who works in electronics regularly uses +0 and -0 for voltages...)

We keep coming back to this point - so I guess it's our main point of divergence.
You attribute a lot of importance to "something" and no importance to "nothing" - but both are required to form reality. An atom is made of 99.9% space - mostly nothing.
Unfortunately, there is no "nothing".
Everywhere is filled with something - quantum foam for example...

Can you imagine if there was no space in the universe? We wouldn't be able to move
Hmmm sort of, if there was air all around us we wouldn't be able to move?
If we went swimming in water we wouldn't be able to move?

Form (something) requires space (nothing) in order to exist. Without space matter can't separate itself - it would be reduced to a point of infinite density (the Big Bang?)
There's no such thing as "nothing".

Roman

03-29-09, 11:12 PM

stateofmind

03-30-09, 11:31 AM

Really?
And what "controls" this reaction?
Again, supposition.

This is just a phenomena that I've noticed in my own life and in others. As for bad things happening to good people - I can't prove that reincarnation exists but it is a possibility that they are carrying karma over from another lifetime.

If the middle point is arbtitrary then any "opposites" are also arbitary.

That's not true. At every middle point you choose you have the relative opposites for that middle point. Since no absolute can be achieved, there are an infinite amount of middle points and likewise an infinite amount of relative opposites. Also, there are absolute opposites ie. absolute noise and absolute silence or absolute white and absolute black, absolute hot and absolute cold - but we could never achieve them in reality.

it's a fact.
It's approachable, certainly.
And most definitely not passable.
Therefore -500 C is impossible.

When I said that theoretically -500 C would be the opposite of 500 C I also said that I was assuming that the metric system was calibrated so that -1 C would cancel out 1 C. Since this not the case and you conveniently ignored this point, this renders your point here moot.

No, it's not random, it's based on physical properties.
That of water.
And it's also not a middle point.
Absolute zero (-273) is fixed point, where the upper limit is has yet to established AFAIK. Regardless, it's far far higher than +273.

Yes, I understand that - but the freezing point of water is only "0" in some people's book. We could have made the freezing point 5,000,061 degrees if we wanted to and all the other temperatures would follow suit. We made it "0" for simplicity and ease of calculation. There's no rule in the universe that says you have to make the freezing point of water "0 degrees." In the Fahrenheit system (which I'm sure you're aware of) the freezing point of water is 32 degrees.

Unfortunately, there is no "nothing".
Everywhere is filled with something - quantum foam for example...

What's that stuff in between the photons and electrons and nuclei in atoms?

Hmmm sort of, if there was air all around us we wouldn't be able to move?
If we went swimming in water we wouldn't be able to move?

In air there is more space than there is in water. In outer space there is more space than there is in air. If there's no such thing as nothing then how could we have varying densities of matter?

This goes back to that black and white argument. If we have grey then we must have both black and white.

Oli

03-30-09, 01:18 PM

This is just a phenomena that I've noticed in my own life and in others. As for bad things happening to good people - I can't prove that reincarnation exists but it is a possibility that they are carrying karma over from another lifetime.]/quote]
You've "observed" it.
You are aware that what the human brain does best is pattern fitting?
And if no actual pattern exists it invents one?
Observe: record: hypothesise.

[quote]That's not true. At every middle point you choose you have the relative opposites for that middle point. Since no absolute can be achieved, there are an infinite amount of middle points and likewise an infinite amount of relative opposites.
Already shown to be false.

Also, there are absolute opposites ie. absolute noise and absolute silence
Absolute noise? Nonsense.

absolute hot and absolute cold
Pure nonsense.

When I said that theoretically -500 C would be the opposite of 500 C I also said that I was assuming that the metric system was calibrated so that -1 C would cancel out 1 C. Since this not the case and you conveniently ignored this point, this renders your point here moot.
No, it demonstrated that you have no idea as to what you're talking about.
The "calibration" and "cancellation" is based on YOUR prejudices, not reality.

Yes, I understand that - but the freezing point of water is only "0" in some people's book.
"Some people" er, the entire world of science and by extension the rest of the world.

We could have made the freezing point 5,000,061 degrees if we wanted to and all the other temperatures would follow suit. We made it "0" for simplicity and ease of calculation. There's no rule in the universe that says you have to make the freezing point of water "0 degrees." In the Fahrenheit system (which I'm sure you're aware of) the freezing point of water is 32 degrees.
Okay, use Fahrenheit: what's the opposite of 2000 deg F?

What's that stuff in between the photons and electrons and nuclei in atoms?
In between?
You do know that electrons, for example, aren't in any one place?
They don't have a fixed location.

In air there is more space than there is in water. In outer space there is more space than there is in air. If there's no such thing as nothing then how could we have varying densities of matter?
Good question.
Once we've worked out a ToE we might know.

This goes back to that black and white argument. If we have grey then we must have both black and white.
And if we don't have black and white we still have red, green and blue.

Algernon

03-30-09, 02:38 PM

I actually have a bit of experience in this field... but I'll refrain from participating for the time being. This topic seems to have deterred from the original discussion.

Oli

03-30-09, 02:43 PM

Deterred?
Algernon, EVERY thread diverts off topic, unless the mods impose severe restrictions.
It's part of the fun.

spidergoat

03-30-09, 03:06 PM

stateofmind

03-30-09, 03:20 PM

None of those exist in nature, they are the product of human definitions.

Okay so the next time you want to have sex with your girlfriend just swap her with a male prostitute since male and female don't exist and there's no difference. :rolleyes:

stateofmind

03-30-09, 03:22 PM

I actually have a bit of experience in this field... but I'll refrain from participating for the time being. This topic seems to have deterred from the original discussion.

You're right algernon - this thread has deterred from its original focus. Oli and I should have debated evidence for yin/yang elsewhere - from now on if Oli wishes to continue this debate one of us will make a yin/yang thread and we'll post there. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this thread topic, please continue.

spidergoat

03-30-09, 04:37 PM

Okay so the next time you want to have sex with your girlfriend just swap her with a male prostitute since male and female don't exist and there's no difference. :rolleyes:

There is no universal polarization of the sexes in nature, some creatures come in as many as 6 different sexes!

Repo Man

03-30-09, 05:48 PM

You're right algernon - this thread has deterred from its original focus. Oli and I should have debated evidence for yin/yang elsewhere - from now on if Oli wishes to continue this debate one of us will make a yin/yang thread and we'll post there. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this thread topic, please continue.

It hasn't been much of a debate. You've yet to provide anything that could be considered credible evidence for the concept of yin/yang. Everything you've asserted has been effortlessly rebutted.

spidergoat

03-30-09, 05:51 PM

I'm extremely skeptical of the effectiveness of a drug that is watered down so much it is as good as absent.

stateofmind

03-30-09, 05:53 PM

I'm extremely skeptical of the effectiveness of a drug that is watered down so much it is as good as absent.

It wouldn't be a drug - it would most likely be an evaluation and reconstitution of a person's input (food and beverages) and output (exercise.)

Oli

03-30-09, 05:54 PM

There's a good review of homoeopathy on, I think, the "Bad Science" web page.
One leading practitioner was shown two different "remedies" and asked if there was any way at all to distinguish between the two "cures" in the bottle.
"By the labels" was the only answer she could come up with...

stateofmind

03-30-09, 05:55 PM

There is no universal polarization of the sexes in nature, some creatures come in as many as 6 different sexes!

I've never heard of that! That sounds really interesting! What are these creatures?

Algernon

03-30-09, 07:10 PM

LOL... I guess I was misunderstood and didn't explain why I refrained.
It didn't have to do with the topic going off, I just used that as an excuse to not post.

I guess I just have some personal reasons, since I have a friend who is going through a tough situation b/c of topic. So until I have done enough research on the subject, I don't feel it would be fair for me to just throw out whatever I have learned and subject you guys to descramble it. (Although for confusion sake it would be quite humorous).

spidergoat

03-30-09, 07:31 PM

I've never heard of that! That sounds really interesting! What are these creatures?

This article describes a species of ant with 4 sexes. (http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020183&ct=1) I can't find confirmation of the six, but I think I read that somewhere.

Asguard

03-30-09, 07:31 PM

state of mind, would you care to post reviews from the database i posted on your "science"?

Its freely avilable in almost every country but the US so try it

Roman

03-30-09, 07:38 PM

Not true.
Homeopathy works, just like any other placebo "works", which, in many cases, is quite well. However, due to the litigatious nature of our society, lying to a patient for his own good can end up costing a doctor a fortune in law suits.

I don't get how the placebo effect isn't a genuine effect.
If it works, why does it get so much hate?

stateofmind

03-30-09, 07:48 PM

This article describes a species of ant with 4 sexes. (http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020183&ct=1) I can't find confirmation of the six, but I think I read that somewhere.

Interesting article..

I only read about a colony of ants that had 3 sexes. Even so, two of the parties were mostly male (yang) and one of the parties was mostly female (yin.) The phenomenon of sex can get cloudy like every other dualistic phenomenon in reality. Hermaphrodites could be looked at as the "grey" of black and white - but even these types of people usually lean to one side or another.

The principle of yin/yang states that there are no things in reality that are completely yin or completely yang.

Does this make more sense?

stateofmind

03-30-09, 07:51 PM

By the way, has anyone seen this movie yet? It's the reason I made this thread! No one?? Someone download it and watch it already!

Repo Man

03-30-09, 07:53 PM

It doesn't matter if the concept "makes sense", only that there is objective evidence for it. You are applying a template to reality, and seeing what confirms your bias, and rejecting what does not.

“When men wish to construct or support a theory, how they torture facts into their service!”

—John Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds , 1852

Diode-Man

03-31-09, 01:20 PM

Repo Man

03-31-09, 01:46 PM

I'd think that level of garlic consumption should also help prevent the contraction of STDs.

Diode-Man

03-31-09, 02:24 PM

I'd think that level of garlic consumption should also help prevent the contraction of STDs.

Maybe so, it is a manna of sorts. White, disease preventive, goes good on pizza, steaks, hamburgers, and I have yet to deep fry and bread it up though! :D

stateofmind

03-31-09, 06:52 PM

Never underestimate the power of fresh garlic!!!!!!!!!!!

The main problem is getting people to chew the stuff fast enough to drink it down, in order to heal without burning the stomach and mouth.

There is a reason Garlic is embedded in lore for stopping vampires. It kills something like 90% of bacteria and destroys about 70% of viruses.

2 Years ago I consumed one fresh bulb of garlic per day for 3 months. I haven't had a bad case of the flu since! (before that I had the flu once a year without fail!)

(do suggest taking something to assist your stomach in processing the garlic)

I'm not so sure on all the health benefits of garlic - I've never looked into it. Either way it would probably be a good idea to chew it up real well before swallowing it, as you should do with all foods, so your stomach has an easier time digesting it.

"Chew your drinks and drink your foods."

Oli

03-31-09, 06:58 PM

Garlic apparently does have beneficial effects with regard to the blood: the vampire myths got that bit right.

Repo Man

03-31-09, 07:34 PM

Maybe so, it is a manna of sorts. White, disease preventive, goes good on pizza, steaks, hamburgers, and I have yet to deep fry and bread it up though! :D

You aren't going to catch any STDs if you have garlic breath that can melt glass.

stateofmind

03-31-09, 08:46 PM

Is anyone at least trying to watch the film "Healing Cancer from the Inside Out"?

Oli

03-31-09, 08:47 PM

Not at that price.

stateofmind

03-31-09, 11:09 PM

Not at that price.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4574310/Healing_Cancer_From_Inside_Out_-_by_Mike_Anderson

A link to a torrent that allows you to download it for free. :D

Oli

03-31-09, 11:12 PM

Ha, bloody Google: only gave me pay sites.
BASTARDS!!!

Tried it. All I get is junk file that does f*ck all...

stateofmind

03-31-09, 11:37 PM

Ha, bloody Google: only gave me pay sites.
BASTARDS!!!

Tried it. All I get is junk file that does f*ck all...

Okay I take it you've never used torrents before. They're simple to use and once you know what you're doing you can get just about any movie or album you can think of.

That "junk file" you got was a torrent file. In order to use it you first need to download a torrent program. There are many torrent programs out there - the two I'm most familiar with are BitTorrent and Azureus. I use Azureus.

You can download Azureus here: http://azureus.sourceforge.net/download.php

Now once you download a torrent program, take that torrent file you downloaded and drag it onto the torrent program. The video will start downloading and you will be able to see it's progress.

And that's how you use torrents :cool:

Oli

03-31-09, 11:47 PM

Nah, I use eMule: but that file does nothing for some reason.
I was suspicious when it downloaded in about half a second.
I'll try the link again, but I'm getting close to my download limits as it is.
Might have to wait for the start of a new month :(

stateofmind

04-01-09, 12:02 AM

Well torrent files are really small - this one is only 14kb. I don't have any experience with eMule so I don't know what could be wrong. If you do see the movie sometime let me know what you think.

Oli

04-01-09, 12:17 AM

Sure thing.
If it's free I can afford it :)

Algernon

04-01-09, 01:33 AM

A friend of mine had an oncologist from a well known institution recommend interleukin and interferon treatment for cancer. He also recommended a 2nd opinion from another friend of his.

She went to see his oncologist friend at this other very well known institution (I apologize if I cannot name the said institutions because I am obliged under HIPAA policy) and he recommended against IF and IL. He suggested some tyrosine kinase inhibitor chemotherapeutic drugs (One being sunitinib) which actually didn't target her specific sarcoma but rather it had shown effectiveness against different types of tumor receptors and could possibly shrink it if not slow the growth of the tumor cells that had metastisized. These drugs were fairly low toxicity and low on the side-effects chart (or so says my pharmacist friend). The difference is also that IL and IF are given intravenously while sunitinib(sutent) can be taken orally.

kmguru

04-10-09, 05:31 PM

stateofmind

04-10-09, 07:31 PM

Once you are diagnosed with Cancer, this has been going on for 4 to 5 years and is very hard to change the natural way. Radical therapy like chemo, radiation, microwave etc. are needed. But one can make a radical life style changes and may, just may come out healed. That is a risk though.

Better to start preventive measures now....

Actually there are two main kinds of cancers; ones that develop quickly ones that develop slowly. This is why getting regular check-ups for cancer is useless and a waste of money. Since the scanning techniques used today are only useful for finding the slow cancers, which is what they find if they find anything, the fact that doctors rush their patients into treatment as fast as possible makes one think that there's some kind of scam going on. The slow cancers take a while to kill people, giving a person ample time to do thoughtful research on what the best treatment would be for them.

Many cancer patients say that the standard procedures for treating cancer, like chemo, are worse than the cancer itself.

On another note, today I thought of another example of how opposites give meaning and existence to each other. If there was a person who was healthy their entire life and never heard or saw or sensed in any way any existence of sickness, decay or death, that person would not know what health was.

Asguard

04-10-09, 07:49 PM

what a load of crap, my mother is only alive because she does regular breast checks and when she noticed something out of the ordenry went and got a mamagram, had her breast (and the respective lympth nodes) removed and had chemo and the anti estrogen drug (i always forget the name)

kmguru

04-10-09, 07:55 PM

On another note, today I thought of another example of how opposites give meaning and existence to each other. If there was a person who was healthy their entire life and never heard or saw or sensed in any way any existence of sickness, decay or death, that person would not know what health was.

Are you saying, just because you never flew in an airplane, you would not know what it is? or that you have not been on the top of a mountain....or that you have not taken cyanide, what it is...etc....

Repo Man

04-10-09, 08:25 PM

Stateofmind, your posts are quite depressing to me. They are reminders of how a very large percentage of reasonably educated and intelligent people believe in complete and utter nonsense.

stateofmind

04-10-09, 08:38 PM

Are you saying, just because you never flew in an airplane, you would not know what it is? or that you have not been on the top of a mountain....or that you have not taken cyanide, what it is...etc....

No, that's something different. Remember we're dealing with perfect opposites here. Try to imagine eliminating one side of an opposite - it's impossible because they give meaning to each other; one cannot exist without the other, and if something doesn't exist it cannot be perceived.

kmguru

04-10-09, 08:40 PM

Me thinks:

Breast Cancer has a direct corelation with ingestion of food with small amount of pesticide due to modern agricultural process for a long period that may connect to estrogen receptors in the body and in the breast.

Asguard

04-10-09, 08:52 PM

kmguru possably, i will grant you that breast cancer is wierd in that it has a very similar graph to the SES graph. Ie the higher the women's SES, the more likly she is to have breast cancer. All the other cancers, CVD, stroke ect tend to follow an inverse of the SES graph

kmguru

04-10-09, 10:42 PM

I have not done any serious, technical research on Cancer because the technical data that I need is not available publicly.

Long ago, I had an opportunity to be a part of the research team for a Breast Cancer Specialist because I teach meditation and the purpose was to reduce organ inflammation and bring the body to homeostasis....but I got too involved in my job - the rocket science.

Anyway, since body follows "Control Theory", and doctors lack that part of the education, it will be a long time before we can find the real causes - just like our American Economy! :)

kmguru

04-10-09, 10:44 PM

No, that's something different. Remember we're dealing with perfect opposites here. Try to imagine eliminating one side of an opposite - it's impossible because they give meaning to each other; one cannot exist without the other, and if something doesn't exist it cannot be perceived.

Health and Sickness are as opposites as Apples and Oranges are...

stateofmind

04-10-09, 10:49 PM

Health and Sickness are as opposites as Apples and Oranges are...

Give me a break! :rolleyes:

What are the opposites of health and sickness then?

kmguru

04-10-09, 11:03 PM

The same opposite as opposite of Apple....I am sure you will figure it out if your mind is healthy....:)

stateofmind

04-10-09, 11:22 PM

The same opposite as opposite of Apple....I am sure you will figure it out if your mind is healthy....:)

An apple isn't a good specimen though... it's a mix of many different elements. It would fall somewhere around the middle of the spectrum. The opposites I'm talking about are absolutes and cannot be achieved in their pure form in reality e.g. black-white, big-small, healthy-sick, alive-dead etc.

stateofmind

04-13-09, 11:26 AM

Check.

Nasor

04-13-09, 02:59 PM

I just got finished watching half of this movie (I downloaded a torrent of it) and it confirmed my beliefs of the corruption of the AMA (American Medical Association) and the ACS (American Cancer Society.)

Homeopathic medicine has been demonized and branded as "quackery" for the sole reason of eliminating competition and maximizing profits. Their tactics are eerily familiar to some of the "scientific skeptics" that frequent this forum.

What do you think about chemotherapy and its effectiveness in treating cancer?
Here's the basic problem with your premise: There are many, many cancer researchers in various universities and hospitals who would all LOVE to come up with a new treatment, let alone a cure. These people are not on the payroll of the AMA, ACS, or the drug companies; they are just individual researchers (and groups of researchers) who all want to advance their own careers by discovering new cancer treatments, regardless of what effect it might have on drug companies etc. These people have no discernible motivation to "demonize" anything that might work.

In fact, the more surprising or outlandish the new treatment, the more they wish it would work, because a surprising new treatment that doesn't seem like it should work would bring a lot more fame and research papers and grants than an "unsurprising" new treatment. So, while it is perhaps true that researchers in some big drug company that made a lot of money treating cancer would have a motivation to suppress or ignore "alternative" treatments that they couldn't make money off of, there are still many serious cancer researchers who do not have such a motivation.

stateofmind

04-13-09, 06:56 PM

Here's the basic problem with your premise: There are many, many cancer researchers in various universities and hospitals who would all LOVE to come up with a new treatment, let alone a cure. These people are not on the payroll of the AMA, ACS, or the drug companies; they are just individual researchers (and groups of researchers) who all want to advance their own careers by discovering new cancer treatments, regardless of what effect it might have on drug companies etc. These people have no discernible motivation to "demonize" anything that might work.

In fact, the more surprising or outlandish the new treatment, the more they wish it would work, because a surprising new treatment that doesn't seem like it should work would bring a lot more fame and research papers and grants than an "unsurprising" new treatment. So, while it is perhaps true that researchers in some big drug company that made a lot of money treating cancer would have a motivation to suppress or ignore "alternative" treatments that they couldn't make money off of, there are still many serious cancer researchers who do not have such a motivation.

Yah, of course there are some cancer researchers looking for a cure - I saw a video a little while ago of a guy who found a way to target and kill cancer cells by burning saltwater. He'd been contacted by big pharmaceutical companies to sell his research but he refused because he was sure they would take it and suppress it.

The main people I think are corrupt in all of this are the head honchos that everyone seems to believe in.

kmguru

04-13-09, 06:59 PM

I wonder if skin cancer can be healed using sea salt water? Worth a test...even for a benign skin condition....

Nasor

04-13-09, 07:12 PM

Yah, of course there are some cancer researchers looking for a cure - I saw a video a little while ago of a guy who found a way to target and kill cancer cells by burning saltwater. He'd been contacted by big pharmaceutical companies to sell his research but he refused because he was sure they would take it and suppress it.

The main people I think are corrupt in all of this are the head honchos that everyone seems to believe in.
My point is that if homeopathy or any of the other "alternative" things that you're supporting worked with any consistency, there should be a lot of studies to back them up. If homeopathy can cure cancer, then why aren't there dozens of studies to prove it?

Asguard

04-13-09, 07:15 PM

in inderpendent journals like cochrane

stateofmind

04-13-09, 08:58 PM

My point is that if homeopathy or any of the other "alternative" things that you're supporting worked with any consistency, there should be a lot of studies to back them up. If homeopathy can cure cancer, then why aren't there dozens of studies to prove it?

Do you really think that all the things that are possible of being discovered are already discovered? There are people who claim that they were cured of cancer through a change in their diet (check out the video I've titled this thread after.) I doubt any cancer foundation would care to research a possible cure that wouldn't make them ANY MONEY - they'd lose all funding after a while.

Repo Man

04-13-09, 08:59 PM

Yah, of course there are some cancer researchers looking for a cure - I saw a video a little while ago of a guy who found a way to target and kill cancer cells by burning saltwater. He'd been contacted by big pharmaceutical companies to sell his research but he refused because he was sure they would take it and suppress it.

The main people I think are corrupt in all of this are the head honchos that everyone seems to believe in.

If ever there were a match made in heaven, it's woo woos and conspiracy theories. Lemme tell you about this carburetor that would make your car get 100 MPG...

Asguard

04-13-09, 09:02 PM

stateofmind

04-13-09, 09:11 PM

what a load of crap, the goverment would LOVE to find out all they needed to do to cure cancer is to change peoples diets. They would be extactic, the health budget is the biggest item in the states and probably the second biggest for the commonwealth.

Not unless there was a conflict of interest and it would be in their favor to keep the pharmaceutical companies happy - after all, if all health were as easy as having a proper diet, the pharmaceutical companies would go completely out of business - I'm sure some very powerful people that wouldn't like that.

Oli

04-13-09, 09:20 PM

You think a big corporation couldn't/ wouldn't find way of tarting up a simple remedy and marketing it at a high price?
It's really help the profit margin if there was a cheap solution.

Repo Man

04-13-09, 09:29 PM

You think a big corporation couldn't/ wouldn't find way of tarting up a simple remedy and marketing it at a high price?
It's really help the profit margin if there was a cheap solution.

What big corporations would really hate is if people learned critical thinking skills, and stopped buying woo woo nonsense such as Kinoki footpads. (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Stossel/story?id=4636224&page=1) But we both know there is absolutely no danger of that ever happening, and the gullible will continue to be fleeced out of their hard earned cash.

Oli

04-13-09, 09:32 PM

Exactly.

kmguru

04-13-09, 09:42 PM

If homeopathy can cure cancer, then why aren't there dozens of studies to prove it?

It does not. In India they have tested it time and again....There are more homeopathy doctors in India than any place on Earth....

stateofmind

04-13-09, 09:47 PM

What big corporations would really hate is if people learned critical thinking skills, and stopped buying woo woo nonsense such as Kinoki footpads. (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Stossel/story?id=4636224&page=1) But we both know there is absolutely no danger of that ever happening, and the gullible will continue to be fleeced out of their hard earned cash.

The only people making more money from this kind of solution would be farmers and grocery stores... I don't see how those could be marketed better :bugeye: As for the footpads I've never seen or heard of them and they seem like a scam.

Diet on the other hand has a very logical basis for the cause of disease and health - after all, our bodies are made up entirely of either what we or our mother (while we were in the womb) eat.

Oli

04-13-09, 09:50 PM

And if they packaged ordinary food, doubled the price and sold it as a cancer cure who'd know?

Repo Man

04-13-09, 09:58 PM

The only people making more money from this kind of solution would be farmers and grocery stores... I don't see how those could be marketed better :bugeye: As for the footpads I've never seen or heard of them and they seem like a scam.

Diet on the other hand has a very logical basis for the cause of disease and health - after all, our bodies are made up entirely of either what we or our mother (while we were in the womb) eat.

And all media sources I'm aware of are constantly telling us that the health of the average person would be far better if they stopped eating so much fast food, ate less food, and exercised more. It's everywhere, you can't not know it. But it continues to fall on deaf ears. Humans like to do what makes them feel good in the short term, and to hell with the long term consequences. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, the list is quite extensive.

But don't forget, one reason more people die of cancer now than in the "good old days" is because people live long enough to die from cancer, rather than being felled from smallpox, or tuberculosis, or any number of diseases that conventional medicine has cured or eliminated. What has homeopathy ever cured?

Asguard

04-13-09, 10:21 PM

Not unless there was a conflict of interest and it would be in their favor to keep the pharmaceutical companies happy - after all, if all health were as easy as having a proper diet, the pharmaceutical companies would go completely out of business - I'm sure some very powerful people that wouldn't like that.

you forget who the biggest consumer of pharmaceuticals actually IS. The only reason the goverment wants to keep them on shore is so they can be extorted to keep the prices down (look at the difference in price between Australia and NZ). If they didnt need them at all our goverment would LOVE it. They could save so much money

stateofmind

04-13-09, 11:06 PM

And all media sources I'm aware of are constantly telling us that the health of the average person would be far better if they stopped eating so much fast food, ate less food, and exercised more. It's everywhere, you can't not know it. But it continues to fall on deaf ears. Humans like to do what makes them feel good in the short term, and to hell with the long term consequences. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, the list is quite extensive.

You hit the nail on the head here. The diseases that plague us now are ones that are caused by long term eating and lifestyle habits - symptomatic medicine (aka western medicine) is futile against them.

you forget who the biggest consumer of pharmaceuticals actually IS. The only reason the goverment wants to keep them on shore is so they can be extorted to keep the prices down (look at the difference in price between Australia and NZ). If they didnt need them at all our goverment would LOVE it. They could save so much money

or they could give shitty treatment that just barely keeps people alive at primo prices and keep a bunch of sick people and their families in indefinite servitude.

Repo Man

04-13-09, 11:16 PM

You hit the nail on the head here. The diseases that plague us now are ones that are caused by long term eating and lifestyle habits - symptomatic medicine (aka western medicine) is futile against them.

Only because people will not take their doctor's advice. What can anyone do about individuals who refuse to listen to good advice, and smoke until they die of lung cancer? Nothing.

stateofmind

04-13-09, 11:22 PM

Only because people will not take their doctor's advice. What can anyone do about individuals who refuse to listen to good advice, and smoke until they die of lung cancer? Nothing.

Right, but anyone who thinks chemo is the answer, and not a last resort, is in my opinion misinformed.

Asguard

04-14-09, 12:04 AM

or they could give shitty treatment that just barely keeps people alive at primo prices and keep a bunch of sick people and their families in indefinite servitude.

how does that benifit the goverment?

firstly they are less likly to be re-elected

secondly it lowers there tax base because if people are sick then they cant work which means they cant earn money and there for dont pay tax (something the US doesnt seem to understand)

thirdly it costs them more both in disability benifits and in direct health care outlay

God are you a conspiracy nut

stateofmind

04-14-09, 08:47 AM

how does that benifit the goverment?

firstly they are less likly to be re-elected

secondly it lowers there tax base because if people are sick then they cant work which means they cant earn money and there for dont pay tax (something the US doesnt seem to understand)

thirdly it costs them more both in disability benifits and in direct health care outlay

God are you a conspiracy nut

People are greedy. You're right to think that the bulk of people (and consequently the country) would be much better off and more efficient if this were the cure. Those sick people often times have family members that have to contribute huge sums of money to keep their relatives alive.

The people who are making money from this don't give a shit about the country, they only care about profits for themselves. If the U.S. went to shit, which it is, they wouldn't be affected in the slightest.

Asguard

04-14-09, 07:42 PM

stateofmind

04-14-09, 08:16 PM

your an idiot. The goverment controls the universites, the goverment controls the CSIRO NOT the pharautical companies, the TGA is an inderpendent statitory body as well. Cochrane is an inderpendent international meta resurch journal. None of these organisations have an insentive to cover anything up, quite the oposite. The goverment has an insentive to relace it so as to increase productivity and save money.

Take the aluminiom foil off your head

Spew your venom all you want - I am rubber you are glue :D

Don't take my word for any of this, just check out the movie and form your own opinion. Oh, and when you're done come back here and tell me what you think.