Corrective Rape

[S.A.M.]

This is some crazy shit.


The partially clothed body of Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa's acclaimed Banyana Banyana national female football squad, was found in a creek in a park in Kwa Thema, on the outskirts of Johannesburg. Simelane had been gang-raped and brutally beaten before being stabbed 25 times in the face, chest and legs. As well as being one of South Africa's best-known female footballers, Simelane was a voracious equality rights campaigner and one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian in Kwa Thema.

Her brutal murder took place last April, and since then a tide of violence against lesbians in South Africa has continued to rise. Human rights campaigners say it is characterised by what they call "corrective rape" committed by men behind the guise of trying to "cure" lesbians of their sexual orientation.

Now, a report by the international NGO ActionAid, backed by the South African Human Rights Commission, condemns the culture of impunity around these crimes, which it says are going unrecognised by the state and unpunished by the legal system.

The report calls for South Africa's criminal justice system to recognise hate crimes, including corrective rape, as a separate crime category. It argues this will force police to take action over the rising violence and ensure the resources and support is provided to those trying to bring perpetrators to justice.

What the hell is wrong with people????:mad:


Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/12/eudy-simelane-corrective-rape-south-africa)

[visceral_instinct]

I think the ones who did it should be punished by being raped. Preferably in public. :mad:

[Orleander]

so they get rid of white rule and this is what they sink to? Why didn't they make it a better country?

[Baron Max]

This is some crazy shit.

SAM, I keep trying to tell you and the others that humans suck, but you just refuse to believe me! And yet, all of you post shit like this, then ask "What's wrong with people?" ....as if it's some major surprise.

SAM, c'mon, nothing that humans do should really shock you ...so why pretend that it does? And, no, SAM, this is not directed at ONLY you ...everyone here is as guilty of it.

Baron Max

[takandjive]

Nothing makes me want to have sex with men like being stabbed.

In theory, wouldn't that just make you MORE gay?

[S.A.M.]

I want to send a bangle in protest to the South African government. How do I do it?

[chris4355]

SAM, I keep trying to tell you and the others that humans suck, but you just refuse to believe me! And yet, all of you post shit like this, then ask "What's wrong with people?" ....as if it's some major surprise.

SAM, c'mon, nothing that humans do should really shock you ...so why pretend that it does? And, no, SAM, this is not directed at ONLY you ...everyone here is as guilty of it.

Baron Max

it should shock us because if it did not more people would do it.

it doesnt surprise me that some people would do shit like this; however that doesnt stop me from asking myself what the hell is wrong with them.

[Baron Max]

I want to send a bangle in protest to the South African government. How do I do it?

I think such addresses are listed on the Internet, SAM.

And you're sure that anyone there would actually care about your bangle of protest? I mean, think about it, South Africa has protests using real people tied to burning tires and such as that, so you think this little bangle will suddenly make them change their minds? ...when murdered and tortured people didn't? ...LOL!

Hey, SAM, why don't send that bangle to the Indian gov in protest over the lack of adequate sewer systems in India? The killing of this one woman moved you so much, yet the death of thousands each and every day is ...what.... no big deal?

Baron Max

[Baron Max]

it doesnt surprise me that some people would do shit like this; however that doesnt stop me from asking myself what the hell is wrong with them.

What's wrong with them? They're human, that's what's wrong!!!

None of the lower animals would ever do something like that ....and we call them "animals"???

Humans suck giant donkey dick!

Baron Max

[Orleander]

I...
Hey, SAM, why don't send that bangle to the Indian gov in protest over the lack of adequate sewer systems in India? The killing of this one woman moved you so much, yet the death of thousands each and every day is ...what.... no big deal?

Baron Max

waaaaaaaay off topic.

[Baron Max]

waaaaaaaay off topic.

No it's not! It's shocking what some people do to other people, ain't it? SAM is concerned about this one South African woman, yet displays no concern whatsoever about the horrors of India ...and the multitude of unnecessary deaths.

Perspective .....the world is better viewed from several different perspectives rather than just ones own rose-colored glasses.

Baron Max

[visceral_instinct]

None of the lower animals would ever do something like that ....and we call them "animals"???



Wow. Hell just froze over. Baron said something worth saying.

Lower animals especially the social ones only seem to use violence to establish dominance, and then they won't actually fight to the death or inflict a serious wound.

It's only in the higher ones like chimpanzees and similar monkeys that you get behaviours like rape, and bigger monkeys ganging up and beating up a small one for no reason.

[S.A.M.]

I think such addresses are listed on the Internet, SAM.

And you're sure that anyone there would actually care about your bangle of protest? I mean, think about it, South Africa has protests using real people tied to burning tires and such as that, so you think this little bangle will suddenly make them change their minds? ...when murdered and tortured people didn't? ...LOL!

Hey, SAM, why don't send that bangle to the Indian gov in protest over the lack of adequate sewer systems in India? The killing of this one woman moved you so much, yet the death of thousands each and every day is ...what.... no big deal?

Baron Max

I sent them a pink panty recently when some thugs were beating women in pubs.

You'd be surprised how public opinion can make a difference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Chaddi_Campaign

[Baron Max]

You'd be surprised how public opinion can make a difference.

No, I told you, SAM, nothing surprises me about humans ....and that includes how some politicians cave in to a few protestors while completely ignoring the great majority who did NOT protest!

So tell me, SAM, if we all got togehter and send pink panties to the Indian gov would they put in sanitary sewer systems for Indians? Isn't 1,000 dead kids per day more important than one lousy South African woman?

Baron Max

[visceral_instinct]

Isn't 1,000 dead kids per day more important than one lousy South African woman?

Baron Max

So if I kill you with my lock knife you won't make a fuss while dying, since there are so many kids dying out there that one old fart is insignificant?

Happy thoughts...

[S.A.M.]

One cause at a time Baron. No one can do everything, but everyone can do something.

[visceral_instinct]

SAM, he doesn't give a rat's ass, he just likes provoking people.

[Orleander]

....SIsn't 1,000 dead kids per day more important than one lousy South African woman?

Baron Max

Yes, but that isn't that this thread is about.

This thread is.
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=91198&highlight=bathroom

[Baron Max]

Hey, I got to thinking about this topic ...corrective rape. Now tell me honestly, didn't the attack on the women "cure" her of being a lesbian? She's no longer a lesbian, is she? So, see, the cure works!!

Baron Max

[visceral_instinct]

Hey, I got to thinking about this topic ...corrective rape. Now tell me honestly, didn't the attack on the women "cure" her of being a lesbian? She's no longer a lesbian, is she? So, see, the cure works!!

Baron Max

You insensitive piece of crap.

[Baron Max]

One cause at a time Baron. No one can do everything, but everyone can do something.

Oh, I agree, SAM. It's just surprising to me that you, an Indian, would chose a cause like something in South Africa over something dire in your own nation. That's all ....just curious.

Baron Max

[Enmos]

What the hell is wrong with people????:mad:

Your question contains the answer.

[Bells]

Hey, I got to thinking about this topic ...corrective rape. Now tell me honestly, didn't the attack on the women "cure" her of being a lesbian? She's no longer a lesbian, is she? So, see, the cure works!!

Baron Max

It is a shame my position as a moderator and the rules of this forum does not allow me to call you a retarded buffoon.

--------------------------------------------------

Sam..

South Africa has many, many issues. They fear homosexuality to the point where they will rape and murder women and men who are homosexual. Lets face it, these men who raped her and stabbed her probably thought that having sex with "real men" would cure her of her homosexuality. Obviously uneducated retards. We are talking about a society where such actions are rarely commented on by the State. When you have witch doctors telling people that raping newborn babies can cure you of AIDS, and men infected with the disease actually went out and raped newborn babies.. while the State remained silent, refusing to even acknowledge that AIDS was a problem or educating the public about AIDS.. honestly, what do you expect?

[Asguard]

bells already said it but its true, alot of people in africa belive raping virgins will cure aids. Its part of the reason why the epidemic is so large in africa. As to what you can do i honestly dont know, maybe put pressure on your own goverment to put pressure on them, it worked before to at least some extent. South africa was banned from all sports and the commonwealth in protest over apartied and it apeared to work so maybe it will again. However i doubt it, as barron said humans are the most evil animals and there is little we can do to change it

[Baron Max]

... and it apeared to work so maybe it will again. However i doubt it, as barron said humans are the most evil animals and there is little we can do to change it

Force! Force seems to be the only thing that will make humans behave in any civilized manner. Without the threat of, or the application of, force, humans will do most anything ...and usually to other humans.

Laws or legislation will do nothing ....without the threat of force to back it up. As has been shown umpty-eleven times throughout history, morality comes from the muzzle of a gun!

Baron Max

[John99]

But Max can we all safety say the doing nothing is the best approach? Sure you can send them your panties in protest but that only makes you feel good and then you can say 'see i did something, i sent my panties' or 'i wrote a letter' etc. The minute real action takes place to oppose dictators or any of the other atrocities perpetrated on humanity many people will work against it. We see it right here on sciforums all the time. You can be damn sure that Hitler would be a hero to many if there were no concentration camps, they would find many reasons to justify what he did and even turn him into the victim.

There are many parallels to this, a homeless person starving to death is a shame and people will feel bad but as long as they gave that man or woman a dollar last month then that is all that matters to them. Or even a domestic dispute, the guy can be beating his wife all around the trailer park but when the cops get there and taze him and he dies in the process people will forget the wife being beaten and the dead guy will be viewed as the victim.

Well that is my impression.

[mikenostic]

It is a shame my position as a moderator and the rules of this forum does not allow me to call you a retarded buffoon.
It's sarcasm, Bells.
Why is it that I'm the only one who sees that in the comment of Baron's you are referring to?

And IIRC, I asked a similar question when I posted the article about Chris Brown beating the shit out of Rhianna. At that time you could ask, what the hell was wrong with Chris Brown. But since then Rhianna has returned, they are reunited and now you can ask, what the hell is wrong with her?
People do stupid, immoral, selfish shit.

[Baron Max]

But Max can we all safety say the doing nothing is the best approach?

In viewing the world affairs for over 60 years, I'm coming to the conclusion that people should live their own lives as best they can without interfering in the lives of others ...so long as those others don't interfer in their lives. A simplistic form of "isolationism", perhaps.

People starve to death or are killed every single day ...by the thousands! Women are battered by their husbands by the thousands every day, all over the country.

We, as a society, set up laws against what we think are not good things to do in that society. We have cops and courts to enforce those laws within our own society. But just how large is our "society"? And how far afield should we expect those laws to govern?

But how far should we go to interfere with the lives of others? I don't know, but it seems that the further we take it, the worse things appear. Maybe we should stop looking so far and concentrate on our own affairs? If we hadn't learned of this South African rape thing, then it wouldn't have bothered us in the least, would it? Perhaps the news media is just fuckin' with us so as to make us fuckin' crazy?!

Isolationism? No, not quite, but perhaps it's time that we get a little closer to isolationism and further away from telling others what to do in their lives.

"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" is a nice thought, and it's also a good rule to live with others. But how far should be take that beyond those that we interact with? If Abdullah in Iran beats his wife, is he one of the "others" in that Golden Rule? Do we ever have any interaction with Abdullan at all? If not, then the Golden Rule doesn't really apply to us individually, does it?

If South Africans want to rape women or lesbians, and no one in South Africa seems to want to stop them, why should we do anything about it? Why are those South African women anything to us? ...just because they're humans?

Wouldn't the world be a damned odd place if, say, all animals reacted like humans do ...if a hunter kills a deer in Michigan, then all deer all over the world attack humans because of it. Or if a man in Texas kills a rattlesnake, then all snakes, all over the world, join forces and attack all humans? Geez, sounds pretty odd, huh?

Baron Max

[S.A.M.]

The minute real action takes place to oppose dictators or any of the other atrocities perpetrated on humanity many people will work against it. We see it right here on sciforums all the time. You can be damn sure that Hitler would be a hero to many if there were no concentration camps, they would find many reasons to justify what he did and even turn him into the victim.

Real action? You mean bombing homes? The panties worked. Bombing them wouldn't have.

The trouble with most diplomats is they have no imagination.

Perhaps if they were able to get beyond the urge to punish people, they might actually achieve something.

[Orleander]

do you think the men actually believe they will cure these women or is it just an excuse to gang rape?

[John99]

SAM,

Obviously everyone has to be willing to cooperate when someone sends them panties in protest. When India and Pakistan are on the verge of war just have everyone send the other side their panties.

[Cellar_Door]

Nothing makes me want to have sex with men like being stabbed.

In theory, wouldn't that just make you MORE gay?

I saw an item about this on the news last week - what was that about women being 'more than equal' again?

In answer to your very fair question, I might add that the motive for corrective rape runs much deeper than simple homophobia. Raping a woman seems to be a way of asserting the power of men, breaking her feminist spirit and showing her that her duty is to serve them.
They killed this woman to make an example of her, because she was a notable role model for many others. In other words: behave like this and you'll be next.

[swarm]

so they get rid of white rule and this is what they sink to? Why didn't they make it a better country?

Sorry dumb shit. "White rule" is no protection against this sort of thing.

[shorty_37]

Just another case of the sick animals out there. Their logic is outstanding.........

Beat, rape and stab women = cure lesbians into wanting men instead. :bugeye:

I can see the women just running to be with these men now. Some men are just violent, jealous and want to control women no matter what.

[shorty_37]

I think the ones who did it should be punished by being raped. Preferably in public. :mad:

Yeah by large sticks.

[S.A.M.]

I had nightmares about the woman. Violence like that is so difficult to rationalise.

[shorty_37]

Well since that Chris Brown episode it is widely back in the media and every talk show from Oprah to Dr Phil are talking about it. They had some Women Abusers on and a lot of it stems from jealousy. Most of the men that were on hit or beat their women if they even looked at another man too long. One guy choked his wife in the car till she passed out because they were at a party and she danced with another man, very innocently.

The problem is that almost of these women stay with the man. A couple of them even gave up their own children because the courts would not let a child stay in that kind of environment. There is really something wrong with women who would give up their own child over a man, especially one that beats them. :mad:

[Baron Max]

Some men are just violent, jealous and want to control women no matter what.

See? If women would stay home and take care of the husband, home and family, none of that would happen. :D

Baron Max

[shorty_37]

See? If women would stay home and take care of the husband, home and family, none of that would happen. :D

Baron Max

Well some of these men MADE the wife/girlfriend stay home and they weren't permitted to leave unless they asked for permission. That is a jail not a home.
One crazy lunatic came home and hit his wife because she didn't answer her cell phone on the first ring when he called. :bugeye:

I mean these men have control issues big time, but the wives g/f are only enabling them to continue with such behaviour. What is wrong with women grow some BALLS!

C'mon do you think Viceral Instinct would take this kind of treatment? :p

[Baron Max]

One crazy lunatic came home and hit his wife because she didn't answer her cell phone on the first ring when he called.

Well, she wasn't gang-raped, then murdered, was she?


C'mon do you think Viceral Instinct would take this kind of treatment?

Well, in another thread, she seem awfully anxious to have a man to have sex with. So, ...I don't know, perhaps. :D

Baron Max

[visceral_instinct]

Well, in another thread, she seem awfully anxious to have a man to have sex with. So, ...I don't know, perhaps.


I assure you, I would not take that kind of treatment. I don't do victimhood. No matter how much I liked the guy, even if he has a 3in thick penis, even if he's Keanu Reeves, I am a fucking human being, not a doormat.

[shorty_37]

3 inches thick huh.....did you mean that in a good or bad way? lol :shrug:

[visceral_instinct]

I meant it in a good way. :D

[iceaura]

so they get rid of white rule and this is what they sink to? I seriously doubt that outspoken, authority-defying, publicly independent black women were safe from rape and murder under white rule.

[Orleander]

so at least now its hitting the media where before it was ignored?

[Repo Man]

Well since that Chris Brown episode it is widely back in the media and every talk show from Oprah to Dr Phil are talking about it. They had some Women Abusers on and a lot of it stems from jealousy. Most of the men that were on hit or beat their women if they even looked at another man too long. One guy choked his wife in the car till she passed out because they were at a party and she danced with another man, very innocently.

The problem is that almost of these women stay with the man. A couple of them even gave up their own children because the courts would not let a child stay in that kind of environment. There is really something wrong with women who would give up their own child over a man, especially one that beats them. :mad:

And there are the women who instigate this sort of behavior, and even seem to like it. My ex GF was only twenty two, and on the rebound from divorcing her husband. Who she would still see from time to time (she made it clear from the start we wouldn't be exclusive) and at least twice while we were together, she made him so jealous that he hit her. And then she would tell me about it, and it would make me sick. And I would wonder why she would see him again ever, since he had done it in the past, and seemed likely to do it again?

After we broke up, we went out a few more times. The last time, we went to a club, and got a table. She went to get a drink, then danced with a guy who asked her to on the way back. And then another, and then another, and soon it had been about a half an hour (maybe longer), and she hadn't been back to our table once. I wasn't angry that she was dancing with other men, but by her never taking a break, and not coming back to our table, she was trying to instigate something. Though we weren't officially together at that time, we were on a date together. She knew exactly what she was doing, and if I were the same type as her ex husband, I probably would have hit her, made a scene, whatever. But I wasn't, so I left. Which was hard, because I'd ridden my motorcycle to her place, and we had left from there. This meant I had to walk about four or five miles to get back to my motorcycle, and then ride home. The next day she called, and asked if she could come over. I told her that if she wanted to hurt me, she had succeeded. She began crying, and apologized. Then she left, and I never saw her again.

If she didn't get some sort of thrill from making men angrily jealous in that manner, she wouldn't have acted that way. What the underlying cause is I have no idea. But I want no part of it.

[jayleew]

Hey, I got to thinking about this topic ...corrective rape. Now tell me honestly, didn't the attack on the women "cure" her of being a lesbian? She's no longer a lesbian, is she? So, see, the cure works!!

Baron Max

Hey, this isn't funny. This is not a joke.

[Baron Max]

Hey, this isn't funny. This is not a joke.

Sure it is! Millions of people all over the world are murdered in many different ways all the time. Selecting only one of those victims in order to post the horrors of this one murder, while virtually ignoring all the others, is a major joke.

While you're reading this post, thousands of children have already died of starvation or of easily-cured diseases. Yeah, that's right ....thousands!

See how insignificant the death of one lesbian is? We make a big deal out of the lesbians death, yet say nothing about the other thousands. Joke, huh?

Baron Max

[Orleander]

....See how insignificant the death of one lesbian is? We make a big deal out of the lesbians death, yet say nothing about the other thousands. Joke, huh?

Baron Max

but its not just one. This article focused on one, but its not just woman this is happening to.

[Baron Max]

but its not just one. This article focused on one, but its not just woman this is happening to.

Oh, I agree. But it's still focusing on one victim while thousands are dying ...RIGHT NOW, Orleander. How is that one victim, already dead and gone, so much more important than the thousands that just now died?

See? That's the joke of it all ...not the death itself, but the undue attention to it while all the others simply died and no one gave one single turd about them.

Baron Max

[jayleew]

Sure it is! Millions of people all over the world are murdered in many different ways all the time. Selecting only one of those victims in order to post the horrors of this one murder, while virtually ignoring all the others, is a major joke.

While you're reading this post, thousands of children have already died of starvation or of easily-cured diseases. Yeah, that's right ....thousands!

See how insignificant the death of one lesbian is? We make a big deal out of the lesbians death, yet say nothing about the other thousands. Joke, huh?

Baron Max

Understand, but we can't say one of those murders is any less or more barbaric or appalling. You can't place a quantity requirement for morality. If murdering one person is wrong, than murdering a thousand is wrong, and vice versa. If one of those kids just died, we don't say, "Well, just another kid cured of disease or hunger." That is disrespectful of the other 999 kids in line to die!! The same is true for the woman. There is at least 2 more that are about to die from the same thing.

Have you no decency?

[jayleew]

Oh, I agree. But it's still focusing on one victim while thousands are dying ...RIGHT NOW, Orleander. How is that one victim, already dead and gone, so much more important than the thousands that just now died?

See? That's the joke of it all ...not the death itself, but the undue attention to it while all the others simply died and no one gave one single turd about them.

Baron Max

Undue attention? We can't fix all the problems in the world at once, we fix them one at a time. Do you really think no one gives a turd just because unnecessary poverty and disease exist?? These problems don't exist just because people aren't trying to tend to them.

If you honestly feel the way you feel and want the right to come out here and make fun of a sigle death in the face of the thousands of deaths, then you must get out there are work towards fixing the problems. Otherwise, you have no vested interest in any person who is dying right now. You may have the right to say what you feel, but that doesn't make it right to say it.

[Jozen-Bo]

Protest is good, why make it easy for the legal system to deteriorate anywhere? Deteriorations spread out and conglomerate into even bigger problems, so whack them wherever and whenever you can. Submitting your voice is a great way to apply mental pressure for corrective measures to take place. By remaining silent, your giving ease of mind for the perpetrators, making it conducive for them or such an activity to take place.

[Baron Max]

Undue attention? We can't fix all the problems in the world at once, we fix them one at a time.

Yeah, sure! Name a few that we've actually fixed. People in India have no sanitary sewer systems, their sewage runs right out into streets and playgrounds. Children have been dying of diseases from that sewage for ....thousands of years! Yet India sends a satellite into space. See? Even India don't give a fuck about those thousand kids that died today.


Do you really think no one gives a turd just because unnecessary poverty and disease exist?? These problems don't exist just because people aren't trying to tend to them.

Like the Indian sewage problem, the same is true of thousands of places in the world ...the same problems occur now that have been occuring for thousands of years. Yeah, Jay, I don't think people really give a shit ....they lie and claim to care, but they really don't.


.... Otherwise, you have no vested interest in any person who is dying right now. You may have the right to say what you feel, but that doesn't make it right to say it.

See, the difference is that I really don't care about people that die, and I'm not afraid to say it. But most people here claim to care, and I'd say that most people on Earth would say they care, yet nothing is done ...the same problems are going on now that went on 1,000 years ago! No, they don't care either, they're just too chickenshit to admit it.

Ya' want to have some fun about how much people care? Check out how much people spent on going to the movies last week. Or the week before that. Or any of the weeks over decades ......all the while claiming that they care about poor people and poverty, etc.

Baron Max

[Baron Max]

Protest is good, ... By remaining silent, your giving ease of mind for the perpetrators, making it conducive for them or such an activity to take place.

Now c'mon, do you really think that the rapists in South Africa come to sciforums or any other Internet site to check on what people are saying about the rapes that they commit????

Surely you're just being ....what ....overly idealistic?

Baron Max

[jayleew]

Ya' want to have some fun about how much people care? Check out how much people spent on going to the movies last week. Or the week before that. Or any of the weeks over decades ......all the while claiming that they care about poor people and poverty, etc.

Baron Max

Do you expect everyone to jump out of their lives and join the Peace Corp? People care and are just needing a way. Every frickin organization that holds their hand out for help to solve these problems there are people giving and giving. This is all that some people can do. Are they supposed to then spend the rest of their life working to correct these problems instead of enjoying a movie? But, who will harvest the corn when we're all busy working to solve the unending problems of the world. It is foolhardy.

This is a job for people like yourself who have it in them that it isn't enough to just give money to organizations, to tell us folks who care what to do. Because to us, there is nothing that we can perceive that we can do to help these people more. And does it even matter, when the governments of the world keep the aid from its people and take it for themselves and let their people die? How can you help the kids if you can't get into the country?

I understand the injustice you are talking about. But, give people more credit. It is an illusion that people don't care. That's what it looks like, but it isn't true. Come up with a plan to solve even one of these problems, and people will rise up to help you in your noble cause.

[Baron Max]

I understand the injustice you are talking about. But, give people more credit. It is an illusion that people don't care. That's what it looks like, but it isn't true. Come up with a plan to solve even one of these problems, and people will rise up to help you in your noble cause.

If people cared about others as much as they claim, there'd be no problems of hunger or sickness in the world. Neighbors would help neighbors. Townspeople would help their fellows. And yet....?

Yeah, instead of helping their neighbors or other people in their own town, they spend millions going to the movies on the weekends. To get to the movies, they likely pass hundreds, if not thousands, of needy people ...but they prefer to spend their money on entertaining themselves.

So now tell me .....just how much do people really care? And if they obviously don't care, should we allow them to say that they do without calling them on it?

Baron Max

[jayleew]

If people cared about others as much as they claim, there'd be no problems of hunger or sickness in the world. Neighbors would help neighbors. Townspeople would help their fellows. And yet....?

Yeah, instead of helping their neighbors or other people in their own town, they spend millions going to the movies on the weekends. To get to the movies, they likely pass hundreds, if not thousands, of needy people ...but they prefer to spend their money on entertaining themselves.

So now tell me .....just how much do people really care? And if they obviously don't care, should we allow them to say that they do without calling them on it?

Baron Max


So, what you are saying is that you also do not care?

Yes, there are some people who don't care. But, at least half do. A few of reasons you don't see neighbors joining together to help solve these problems is:

1) They don't care about each other.
2) They are pessimistic that their effort will put a dent in the problem.
3) They don't know what to do that will help more than putting money in an envelope.
4) They are under the false pretense that the problems are being dealt with by professionals and will help them if asked and need to be educated.

[jayleew]

If people cared about others as much as they claim, there'd be no problems of hunger or sickness in the world. Neighbors would help neighbors. Townspeople would help their fellows. And yet....?



The issue here is most people don't care about their neighbors enough to talk to each other. If you don't look like you need help, they don't give a shit to know you or your situation. They care more about the needy kids who are dying than their neighbor. So, how can they join together if they are apathetic to each other so much that they cannot work together?

They need a leader to rally them.

[nietzschefan]

This is some crazy shit.


The partially clothed body of Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa's acclaimed Banyana Banyana national female football squad, was found in a creek in a park in Kwa Thema, on the outskirts of Johannesburg. Simelane had been gang-raped and brutally beaten before being stabbed 25 times in the face, chest and legs. As well as being one of South Africa's best-known female footballers, Simelane was a voracious equality rights campaigner and one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian in Kwa Thema.

Her brutal murder took place last April, and since then a tide of violence against lesbians in South Africa has continued to rise. Human rights campaigners say it is characterised by what they call "corrective rape" committed by men behind the guise of trying to "cure" lesbians of their sexual orientation.

Now, a report by the international NGO ActionAid, backed by the South African Human Rights Commission, condemns the culture of impunity around these crimes, which it says are going unrecognised by the state and unpunished by the legal system.

The report calls for South Africa's criminal justice system to recognise hate crimes, including corrective rape, as a separate crime category. It argues this will force police to take action over the rising violence and ensure the resources and support is provided to those trying to bring perpetrators to justice.

What the hell is wrong with people????:mad:


Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/12/eudy-simelane-corrective-rape-south-africa)

Huh what? South Africa? Ahh hell obviously it's white people's fault.

[visceral_instinct]

sure it is! Millions of people all over the world are murdered in many different ways all the time. Selecting only one of those victims in order to post the horrors of this one murder, while virtually ignoring all the others, is a major joke.

While you're reading this post, thousands of children have already died of starvation or of easily-cured diseases. Yeah, that's right ....thousands!

See how insignificant the death of one lesbian is? We make a big deal out of the lesbians death, yet say nothing about the other thousands. Joke, huh?

Baron max

obviously we think it's wrong to harm anyone for being gay, not just this woman, or we wouldn't be complaining in the first place

[Baron Max]

obviously we think it's wrong to harm anyone for being gay, ....

"We" do? Who's this "we" of which you speak? ...because those South African men didn't seem to share your opinion, did they???? So, since you left them out of the "we", who else did you leave out?

I'm also curious how you think you can speak for all those "we" people? Did they elect you to speak for them?


..., or we wouldn't be complaining in the first place ...

I disagree. People around here complain about everything and anything. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that they'd even complain if they were hung with a new rope!

Baron Max

[visceral_instinct]

"We" do? Who's this "we" of which you speak? ...because those South African men didn't seem to share your opinion, did they???? So, since you left them out of the "we", who else did you leave out?

I'm also curious how you think you can speak for all those "we" people? Did they elect you to speak for them?



I disagree. People around here complain about everything and anything. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that they'd even complain if they were hung with a new rope!

Baron Max

Look at the other posts making the same point as me, such as


Undue attention? We can't fix all the problems in the world at once, we fix them one at a time. Do you really think no one gives a turd just because unnecessary poverty and disease exist?? These problems don't exist just because people aren't trying to tend to them.

If you honestly feel the way you feel and want the right to come out here and make fun of a sigle death in the face of the thousands of deaths, then you must get out there are work towards fixing the problems. Otherwise, you have no vested interest in any person who is dying right now. You may have the right to say what you feel, but that doesn't make it right to say it.


Do you expect everyone to jump out of their lives and join the Peace Corp? People care and are just needing a way. Every frickin organization that holds their hand out for help to solve these problems there are people giving and giving. This is all that some people can do. Are they supposed to then spend the rest of their life working to correct these problems instead of enjoying a movie? But, who will harvest the corn when we're all busy working to solve the unending problems of the world. It is foolhardy.

This is a job for people like yourself who have it in them that it isn't enough to just give money to organizations, to tell us folks who care what to do. Because to us, there is nothing that we can perceive that we can do to help these people more. And does it even matter, when the governments of the world keep the aid from its people and take it for themselves and let their people die? How can you help the kids if you can't get into the country?

I understand the injustice you are talking about. But, give people more credit. It is an illusion that people don't care. That's what it looks like, but it isn't true. Come up with a plan to solve even one of these problems, and people will rise up to help you in your noble cause.


but its not just one. This article focused on one, but its not just woman this is happening to.


Understand, but we can't say one of those murders is any less or more barbaric or appalling. You can't place a quantity requirement for morality. If murdering one person is wrong, than murdering a thousand is wrong, and vice versa. If one of those kids just died, we don't say, "Well, just another kid cured of disease or hunger." That is disrespectful of the other 999 kids in line to die!! The same is true for the woman. There is at least 2 more that are about to die from the same thing.

Have you no decency?

We are angry because these men committed a crime - a crime that is wrong no matter who your victim is.

Not because this woman was special and worth more than others.


No, that's you. You piss on threads just because you can. Go use your energy for something more productive, like saving kids from hunger and disease, or quit giving out to people in here.

[Baron Max]

We are angry because these men committed a crime - a crime that is wrong no matter who your victim is.

Not because this woman was special and worth more than others.

Four pages to show that y'all are angry because of one crime? ...even while millions of other crimes have been commited while you complained about one of them? And you think that's something worthwhile?

Baron Max

[Tiassa]

Max, one of the longstanding hallmarks of your posts is that it taken together they have the cumulative effect of proposing that nobody should ever worry about or do anything other than eating, sleeping, shitting, occasionally reproducing, and dying.

Humans are animals; not all animals are humans. Human beings have selected over time in such a manner that the basic existence of a slug, while observably enough for the slug, is insufficient to sustain the human endeavor.

Yes, people respond to specific stimuli. Some of these responses are angry. And some of that anger is futile. But nature is not extraneous. If the capacity for abstract and remote responses to stimuli had no utilitarian purpose, the human species would be considerably different.

Individual events, while they are merely individual events, can become emblematic of a larger situation. What's one chick footballer, more or less? Or one dancer (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1112128/Dancing-girl-murdered-Taliban-refusing-traditional-performances-despite-death-threats.html)? In the War on Terror, the murder of Shabana—one among thousands—has become emblematic of the Taliban and what it stands for, much like the rape and murder of Eudy Simelane asserts much about the form and nature of South African cultural mores. The murder of Matthew Shepherd tells us something about the priorities of some Americans. In all these cases, the outcome is a chilling explanation of what is possible within the given parameters.

Because human beings are social creatures with a capacity for abstract and remote responses to diverse stimuli, we tend to see in these possibilities something for the larger society to consider. What occurs on the ends of the bell curve, and how the central body social responds tells us much about the health of any given society. For the individualist, an analogue might be immunization. Why get a shot? After all, you don't have polio. Or measles. Or mumps, rubella, diptheria, papilloma, or even the flu.

Socially, immunization has the effect of reducing the dangers of these diseases. By attending to what is possible, and taking certain measures to protect oneself against specific outcomes, one protects their own self and stability.

Likewise, by attending to potential corruption of the body social, human communities protect themselves and their stability.

Yes, certain things are bound to happen in society. We even account for this in the American justice system: Not all murders, for instance, are the same. A crime committed in the heat of passion is not exonerated; society generally—to a persuasive degree—agrees that no, you can't kill someone just for boffing your wife, but, yeah, we understand. So we treat it differently. Gangland murders are especially stupid. And we treat those differently. Psychotic murders, as well. The idea that the fact of someone's homosexuality is cause for people to conspire and plot to gang rape, beat, and then butcher someone for? Yes. That sets off alarm bells. This is something that sounds psychotic, but is drawn from contemporary cultural passions. (I don't buy the human rights campaigns' bureaucratic term "corrective rape"; this is vigilante hatred, intended as punishment, through and through.) People do sit up and take notice. (I mean, look at what people have come up with before: heavy metal is responsible for rapes, murders, and suicides? Rap is responsible for gang violence? What the hell was Tchaikovsky thinking? The 1812 Overture? No wonder the nineteenth century had so many damn wars!)

The mundanely sordid is enough for many, the petty jealousies of a failed marriage stuffed into the trunk of a car, a house robbery gone wrong, or another broken heart whose mouth said no but—apparently—eyes said yes. When you get a the nibbled-on remnants of cute, ethnic gay boys; or the black man dragged to death behind a truck; or the infant raped to death by her father; or ... the point is that eventually people do sit up and take notice.

And you see it yourself. There are a lot of people who think concern over the way women and homosexuals are treated is desperate exaggeration. But these sorts of things keep happening.

One thing I would also urge you to consider is the context of the issue in any given community. While, to be certain, you are far above such things, I would urge you to recall the oft-muttered outrages and bigotry against women and homosexuals that fuel many people's frustrations.

We are social creatures, Max. And there are implications in that context arising from situations such as this one. Civilization and society are not so distal to everyone as they are to you; people will inevitably find some investment of priority in these things.

[Tiassa]

Mod Hat — Take a breath, take a deep breath now

Alright. Enough. We get the point. A couple of obvious notes. To the one: C'mon ... please? I know, but so do you. To the other: If you keep baiting people like that, they're going to unload; a bit of good faith won't kill you.

Either way, enough.

So everyone take a deep breath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8gPeI_Mn2M) and move forward.

[Baron Max]

Max, one of the longstanding hallmarks of your posts is that it taken together they have the cumulative effect of proposing that nobody should ever worry about or do anything other than eating, sleeping, shitting, occasionally reproducing, and dying.

No, that's not it, Tiassa. I try to show them that their worries or complains should NOT be taken out of the context of humanity as a whole.
If some people take one lousy murder and make it into a major issue, they're missing, and ultimately covering up, the fact that gazillions of murderers and killings occur every single day in the world. Even you, Tiassa, can see that.


Yes, people respond to specific stimuli. Some of these responses are angry. And some of that anger is futile. ...

And I'm trying to help them redirect that anger and frustration to the conditions at large ...not just one lousy murder out of gazillions of murders that occur every day.

I'm often shocked by how people respond when I make mention of how insignificant and decidedly misplaced their anger is over one little incident while completely ignoring the gazillions of similar incidents that occur daily. I've come to see that their displays of anger are actually directed at themselves or at humanity as a whole instead of at me. They are angry because they can't control their anger, and they're angry because they can see that there's nothing they can do about anything. Odd, huh?


Because human beings are social creatures with a capacity for abstract and remote responses to diverse stimuli, we tend to see in these possibilities something for the larger society to consider. ...

And I try to help them see that larger society of which they claim to be happy to be a part of ....yet seemingly miss it badly by expressing such anger and frustration over one lousy little incident. People need to realize that the humanity to which they belong ....is violent and deadly and vicious and lying and ...., and sucks giant donkey dicks!


We are social creatures, Max. ....

People keep saying that, Tiassa, but look around ...the world is full of those "social creatures" that you so love, and they're killing, raping, lying, stealing, thieving, conniving, cheating, hateful, bigoted, prejudicial, warring, bombing, ....., and all other manner of horrid things!

Social creatures? Naw, I don't think so. Humans are "social" only because of the laws and courts and cops that keep them toeing the line of what society considers ....decent behavior.

People need to see that, Tiassa. And I consider it my role and my duty to push it into their faces at every opportunity! :D

Baron Max

[S.A.M.]

If everyone thought like you Max, we'd still be living like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TZ4zYEBSw1I/STLlG7SxECI/AAAAAAAAItM/gA1Ew0sMSTg/s320/black_history_colored_waiting_2.jpg

The miracle of human beings is that if enough of them get together about the things that matter it is possible to change the world.

[Baron Max]

The miracle of human beings is that if enough of them get together about the things that matter it is possible to change the world.

That might be possible, SAM, if the stupid bastards wouldn't waste so much time and anger and energy worrying over one lousy little incident. As it is, they miss the big picture completely by focusing their concerns too narrowly.

But that's okay, ....humans are all fucked up, and I think we all know it. Most just aren't willing to admit it.

Baron Max

[visceral_instinct]

That might be possible, SAM, if the stupid bastards wouldn't waste so much time and anger and energy worrying over one lousy little incident.
Baron Max
Myself and others have already made the point that it is not just this one specific incident that was wrong, it is the crime of so called corrective rape in general. It is always wrong no matter who the victim is, or whether you rape 100 people or just one, and should be eradicated.

But you are choosing to keep ignoring this point, and put words in our mouths, insisting that we are angry ONLY about this one specific crime.

Now I'm just going to accept that you're talking crap, and ignore you unless by some miracle you say something reasonable.

[swarm]

humans are all fucked up, and I think we all know it. Most just aren't willing to admit it.

Simply because you are all fucked up baron, that doesn't mean that all humans are fucked up.

[hypewaders]

Misanthropy is such a black hole, hard to see (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6kfPnNMGKA) into and out of, and hard to reach a helping hand far into. Improving humanity from inside ourselves is only natural, but self-hatred is terrified of that, and wants to deny the obvious.