Idiots can't tell that they're idiots

I've posted this before, somewhere. It should be required reading for anyone joining SciForums.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/health/011800hth-behavior-incompetents.html

Thoughts?

 

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Makes perfect sense to me.

 

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How idiotic do you think three appellate-court judges and two lawyers could be about the statistical errors in DNA sampling and profiling?

 

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An example: a scientist testified that the DNA profiles she characterised from evidence, definitively identified a person who was not the defendant.
But also said there was another signal, beyond definition, that meant the defendant could not be excluded.

The judges turned down the appeal.

What's wrong with this picture?

 

competence is a subjective term and hard to define.
isn't that article saying that people recognize familiar traits?
for example a car salesman would know what to look for in competence in regards to sales.
a person incapable of recognizing competence?
there are only two real answers:
1. the person is plain incapable of recognizing competence.
or
2. he's beyond redemption.

-my opinion, such as it is.

 

I've found those who feel or think they are superior that those around them , even if they are, seem to be more arrogant and demeaning many times to others rather than trying to teach others what they know. To many times I see people on job sites that instead of trying to show someone a better way to do something will just let others fumble through with their jobs and never give them advice on how to do it better. Teaching people has become a lost art on many jobs and people must jump through hoops to learn anything that could help them become a more skillful person. That is because those with the :knowledge" of certain tasks don't want others finding out what they know for fear of not being needed themselves any longer.

 

Haha Cosmic,
Arrogance is the term for people who feel or think they are superior to those around them.
And I agree fully about those kinds of people in the work environment. I work in IT and I see stingy asses like that all the time, never wanting to teach anyone what they know.
Whenever I work with those people, anytime I can't get done what I need to get done whether due to them not doing their part or them not showing me how to do my part, I just pin the blame/responsibility on them. And if I'm on my game, I usually document anything that they do/I do so I have plenty of credibility if it comes down to brass tacks.

 

Mike---I guess a relevant question would be: as an IT guy, do you run across other IT guys who think that they're competent, but really have no idea what they're doing? And, when that person gets caught in some sort of situation where their incompetence bites them on their ass, is it ever their fault, or is it the world working against them?

cosmic---in the defense of not telling someone that they're wrong: most people are non-confrontational by nature. So if someone is doing something wrong, or "the hard way", mostly an expert will leave him to his tasks. Assuming that everyone on the job was hired because of their competence (a huge assumption, I know), who am I to correct someone who supposedly knows what they're doing?

Ok, so I'm playing devil's advocate here. But there is a calculus which goes into these things, like egos and past experiences and such.

I read this article and was instantly terrified that I may be that idiot

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I think anyone who reads this piece should feel the same way!

 

As an IT guy I do see those kinds of guys, but they're much less common than the 'know it alls' who like to hoard their knowledge.
In fact, one of the females that does store support like I do is just like that; she has no idea what she's doing. And I think the only reason she's still here is that aside from our supervisor, she's the only female left in the end-user-support/field technician section of the Carolinas/Tennessee region.
But it's her work ethic (or staunch lack thereof) way moreso than her lack of technical expertise that gains her disdain from the rest of us.

I usually don't give the 'know it alls' much respect at all, and sometimes will blatantly show disdain for them. I'll sidestep those guys and even go over their heads if need be if their stinginess gets in the way of me doing my job.

Nope. You'll NEVER get me to admit that I'm an idiot; mostly because I'm not.
Now, HOWEVER....just like any other person on this planet, I do have my share of brain farts and fuck ups. And during those times that I do mess up, and realize that I've messed up, I'll own up to it quickly. I also have no problem admitting my faults.

 

As an IT "gal", I can answer this as well. We have a guy who thinks he's great, but who basically messes up every machine he touches. He blames everyone else other than himself and now he needs extra staff to catch up on his backlog. He has zero troubleshooting skills, and no memory for past incidents. It's our biggest frustration. Other than that, he's a nice guy, but he's convinced he's God's gift to the company and will defend himself to everyone who'll listen. Silently, everyone brings his screw ups to the rest of us in the IT department for fixing... and we do it because we have to, but our boss is completely oblivious because he's a perfectly nice guy. But, he hasn't worked on her computer problems yet... We keep hoping she'll break something on her laptop.

 

no shit.

 

Some smart people don't even know they are smart.

 

Or they don't care that they are. They just don't have anything to prove really.

 

The idiots don't doubt themselves, even when confronted with evidence. They don't do reality checks.

 

In my job, I have a fear of rising to the level of my incompetence.

 

What do you do?

 

Makes sense. How can you recognize incompetence without a frame of reference?

Regarding the thread title, I'm reminded of a story I read in which an alien was on the loose and would temporarily "mind meld" with the people it came across and let them know its thoughts and see things from its point of view. For most people, it was just a cool experience. But a retarded women who had always been known to be happy and friendly saw in those few moments of the mind meld all that she was missing due to her poorly functioning brain. Afterwards, she was never as happy as she had been up to that point.

Really, a very sad story somewhat reminisent of Flowers for Algernon.

 

The striking aspect for me was the failure to adjust one's own self-assessment based on evidence, and preferentially in areas of endeavor that were difficult.

I know for sure I can label myself incompetent in some areas in which I am unable to spot competence in others - but no doubt any idiot can say the same. It appears to depend on recognizing that the task is difficult. The question seems to be, can a non-idiot person in one field reliably recognize difficulty of endeavor in others?

They don't say, for example,whether the same people were idiots in all fields, and whether some of the incompetents were consistently accurate rather than being idiots.

 

Originally Posted by Article
"Incompetent individuals were less able to recognize competence in others," the researchers concluded. ​

Consider the implications for democracy. Perhaps we should require people to pass some kind of basic civics knowledge test before voting.

 

Haha....then does that mean that competent people are better at recognizing incompetence in others?

I find incompetence fairly easy to spot.