Grammar and Stress

[Orleander]

I haven't noticed a difference. The people that correct others have always been the same people. Asguard bothered me, but that was spelling, not grammar. Have you noticed a difference?


....Some people avoid Krispy Kreme because of the calories. Angela Nickerson won’t go there because of the Ks.

“I confess, I’m a spelling, grammar and punctuation snob,” says the 35-year-old travel writer from Sacramento, Calif. “And I won’t patronize businesses with misspelled signs. It’s like hearing fingernails running down a chalkboard.”

Life isn’t easy for language lovers such as Nickerson. Over the past decade, her beloved mother tongue has been mashed, mangled and mistreated by everyone from a sitting president to a squadron of texting preteens. Misspelled menus have become the stuff of bad dreams. (Try our Sweat and Sour Chicken!) Punctuation is not only hit-and-miss, it’s potentially hazardous. (Employees must “wash hands.”)

But while blunders and bloopers have ever exasperated the spelling snobs and grammar grunions of the world, our recent woes — housing foreclosures, massive layoffs, rising debt and war — may be ratcheting up the pressure some feel to seize control of something (anything!), even if it’s just a properly placed comma.

“Hanging on to some kind of rule might be comforting to people,” says Bethany Keeley, a grad student from Athens, Ga., who runs The “Blog” of “Unnecessary” Quotation Marks. “People are looking for something they can control and ‘What should we do about our foreign policy?’ is a lot more complicated a question than ‘Should the period go inside or outside the quotation mark?’ ”...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28900351/

[Enmos]

I always put the period outside the quotation mark, but I'm pretty sure that's actually wrong.

[clusteringflux]

I always put the period outside the quotation mark, but I'm pretty sure that's actually wrong.

Doesn't it depend on the quote?

Ex.1. Enmos said "Holy shit".

2. Enmos said "Holy shit, you're really stupid." and then went about his business.

IDK, I'm just making things up, I guess.

[cosmictraveler]

Grammar as well as spelling are a weak point with me as well. I really didn't need to write that much when I was working in the trades. Some job proposals were about all the writing I did during my working days. Today with the advent of this new found internet I am learning more and more as I write about punctuation, grammar and spelling. ALL HAIL TO THE CHECK SPELLING!!!!!! :):worship:

[Enmos]

Doesn't it depend on the quote?

Ex.1. Enmos said "Holy shit".

2. Enmos said "Holy shit, you're really stupid." and then went about his business.

IDK, I'm just making things up, I guess.

I never put a period between mid sentence quotation marks. But it doesn't look too weird.

[Orleander]

OK, but do any of you find people correcting you more often? As if this were one aspect of their life they could control?

[Enmos]

OK, but do any of you find people correcting you more often? As if this were one aspect of their life they could control?

I don't. But I sometimes ask people to correct my spelling or grammar if they see an error. I rather know and correct it than keep repeating the same error over and over.

[cosmictraveler]

I don't. But I sometimes ask people to correct my spelling or grammar if they see an error. I rather know and correct it than keep repeating the same error over and over.

Me too! But I do not like people who put me down for errors but people show only a good concern to improve my quality of writing. ;)

[S.A.M.]

As long as I can understand what the person is saying, I don't care.

IMO, language = communication. If you're communicating, I'm fine

Sometimes I do point out grammar and spelling, but thats just to be obnoxious. :D

[Fraggle Rocker]

I always put the period outside the quotation mark, but I'm pretty sure that's actually wrong.It is, in general. The only time it's proper is if the quote includes a URL or a line of computer code or something like that, which might actually have an embedded period.

Open your browser and type "http://myspace.com".

I usually leave it on the outside of numbers with fractions.

John said, "The answer to question 2 is 1.5".

Not: John said, "The answer to question 2 is 1.5."

I don't know if that would really confuse anyone but it just looks awkward.

Doesn't it depend on the quote? Ex.1. Enmos said "Holy shit".That's wrong, and you also left out the comma. Enmos said, "Holy shit."2. Enmos said "Holy shit, you're really stupid." and then went about his business.No. You never put a period in a quote if the quote is embedded in the middle of a sentence, EVEN IF the quote itself is a complete sentence. You use a comma instead of a period. And once again you left out the opening comma.

Enmos said, "Holy shit, you're really stupid," and then went about his business.

Of course if it's anything besides a period, then you must include it.

Enmos said, "Holy shit, you're really stupid!" and then went about his business.

Enmos asked, "Mr. Holyshitz, are you really stupid?" and then went about his business.OK, but do any of you find people correcting you more often? As if this were one aspect of their life they could control?Nobody ever corrects me.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself there. ;) I edit and proofread other people's writing all day.

[shorty_37]

When it comes to spelling I think I am pretty good. I very rarely have to check to see if my spelling is correct. I don't use super huge words either though, so it's pretty easy.
When it comes to Grammar though, I suck. I have never been good at it. When I went to school they didn't spend much time on it. I probably made countless mistakes in this paragraph alone. It does bother me when I see really bad spelling though. If you are that bad you should take advantage of the built in spell check programs.

[clusteringflux]

That's wrong, and you also left out the comma. Enmos said, "Holy shit."No. You never put a period in a quote if the quote is embedded in the middle of a sentence, EVEN IF the quote itself is a complete sentence. You use a comma instead of a period. And once again you left out the opening comma.

Enmos said, "Holy shit, you're really stupid," and then went about his business.

Of course if it's anything besides a period, then you must include it.

Enmos said, "Holy shit, you're really stupid!" and then went about his business.

Enmos asked, "Mr. Holyshitz, are you really stupid?" and then went about his business.Nobody ever corrects me.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself there. ;) I edit and proofread other people's writing all day.


Yeah, I knew those examples didn't look quite right.:cool: But, as a wise old friend used to say, "Screw the king and his English."

(Hey, I got it that time.)

[CutsieMarie89]

As long as I know what their trying to say, then it doesn't matter. I may notice a mistake, but I never say anything. Unless of course I just want to be annoying or obnoxious.

[Enmos]

It is, in general. The only time it's proper is if the quote includes a URL or a line of computer code or something like that, which might actually have an embedded period.

Open your browser and type "http://myspace.com".

I usually leave it on the outside of numbers with fractions.

John said, "The answer to question 2 is 1.5".

Not: John said, "The answer to question 2 is 1.5."

I don't know if that would really confuse anyone but it just looks awkward.

That's wrong, and you also left out the comma. Enmos said, "Holy shit."No. You never put a period in a quote if the quote is embedded in the middle of a sentence, EVEN IF the quote itself is a complete sentence. You use a comma instead of a period. And once again you left out the opening comma.

Enmos said, "Holy shit, you're really stupid," and then went about his business.

Of course if it's anything besides a period, then you must include it.

Enmos said, "Holy shit, you're really stupid!" and then went about his business.

Enmos asked, "Mr. Holyshitz, are you really stupid?" and then went about his business.Nobody ever corrects me.

Yep, as I thought ;)
I remember that from Grammar school.
I just find it weird looking to have quotes at the end of a sentence instead of a period (I forgot about replacing the period with a comma though).
So I just leave the period out altogether most of the time.
I'll try to do it right from now on :)

While I'm at it, can I ask you a question ?
Why is 'altogether' spelled with only one 'l' instead of two ? Same for 'always'.

Oh, and also.. do the same rules apply to round brackets ?

[Fraggle Rocker]

When it comes to spelling I think I am pretty good. I very rarely have to check to see if my spelling is correct. I don't use super huge words either though, so it's pretty easy. When it comes to Grammar though, I suck. I have never been good at it. When I went to school they didn't spend much time on it. I probably made countless mistakes in this paragraph alone.There are no errors in this post. I don't generally see a lot of errors in your posts, and as an editor I'm more likely to notice them than most people. I think you're being too hard on yourself.It does bother me when I see really bad spelling though. If you are that bad you should take advantage of the built in spell check programs.As has been mentioned on SciForums several times, we do not read the letters in words sequentially. The first and last letters have to be correct, but all the others simply have to be there with nothing missing and nothing extra, in any sequence. (Mnay ttess hvae been desveid to isultartle tihs pnehoneomn.) In other words, we do not read phonetically. We read holistically. So by misspelling a word, the writer forces us to slow down to a fraction of our normal speed, read each letter separately, and puzzle out the error. It is a tremendous discourtesy to one's readers to not use a spell checker.

Transpositions, one of the most common errors, are not only forgivable but most of the time we won't even notice them. But incorrect, missing or extra letters are a disaster.While I'm at it, can I ask you a question? Why is 'altogether' spelled with only one 'l' instead of two ? Same for 'always'.No one can explain the inconsistencies in English spelling. It has never been reformed by a national body of scholars, the way it's been done in German, Italian, Spanish and many other languages in the past couple of centuries. We still spell most words the way they were spelled 600 years ago, when a long A was pronounced AH and a long I was pronounced EE.

Even worse, until the rise of London in recent times, no region had cultural dominance over all of England, so each region spelled words the way they were pronounced in its own dialect.

Although, also, albeit, almighty, there are quite a few words in which the second L in ALL has been dropped. When Oxford University (in England) and Noah Webster (in the USA) established the authority to publish dictionaries that would normalize spelling, they did the best they could with what they had to work with. They didn't want to make people learn a new spellling for 3/4 of their words or nobody would have bought their books. And then of course Webster went out of his way to create a few American rules that deliberately differed from British spelling, such as color/colour, traveled/travelled and center/centre.Oh, and also.. do the same rules apply to round brackets ?I assume you mean (parentheses), although "brackets" can be used [for the whole family] of such {paired markers}. In this case you simply have to do what's logical. If you're putting an entire sentence in parentheses, then you punctuate it so it stands alone. (You might do this with an explanatory thought in a scholarly article.) But if it's one phrase within a sentence (something you inject to improve understanding), then you have to treat it like one long word and leave the punctuation outside. Of course it could have its own internal punctuation (periods, commas, dashes: the list is endless) which you have to include for readability.

[Enmos]

There are no errors in this post. I don't generally see a lot of errors in your posts, and as an editor I'm more likely to notice them than most people. I think you're being too hard on yourself.As has been mentioned on SciForums several times, we do not read the letters in words sequentially. The first and last letters have to be correct, but all the others simply have to be there with nothing missing and nothing extra, in any sequence. (Mnay ttess hvae been desveid to isultartle tihs pnehoneomn.) In other words, we do not read phonetically. We read holistically. So by misspelling a word, the writer forces us to slow down to a fraction of our normal speed, read each letter separately, and puzzle out the error. It is a tremendous discourtesy to one's readers to not use a spell checker.

Transpositions, one of the most common errors, are not only forgivable but most of the time we won't even notice them. But incorrect, missing or extra letters are a disaster.No one can explain the inconsistencies in English spelling. It has never been reformed by a national body of scholars, the way it's been done in German, Italian, Spanish and many other languages in the past couple of centuries. We still spell most words the way they were spelled 600 years ago, when a long A was pronounced AH and a long I was pronounced EE.

Even worse, until the rise of London in recent times, no region had cultural dominance over all of England, so each region spelled words the way they were pronounced in its own dialect.

Although, also, albeit, almighty, there are quite a few words in which the second L in ALL has been dropped. When Oxford University (in England) and Noah Webster (in the USA) established the authority to publish dictionaries that would normalize spelling, they did the best they could with what they had to work with. They didn't want to make people learn a new spellling for 3/4 of their words or nobody would have bought their books. And then of course Webster went out of his way to create a few American rules that deliberately differed from British spelling, such as color/colour, traveled/travelled and center/centre.I assume you mean (parentheses), although "brackets" can be used [for the whole family] of such {paired markers}. In this case you simply have to do what's logical. If you're putting an entire sentence in parentheses, then you punctuate it so it stands alone. (You might do this with an explanatory thought in a scholarly article.) But if it's one phrase within a sentence (something you inject to improve understanding), then you have to treat it like one long word and leave the punctuation outside. Of course it could have its own internal punctuation (periods, commas, dashes: the list is endless) which you have to include for readability.

Thanks Fraggle, very informative :)

[iceaura]

Isn't the period inside the quote marks an American rule? I've never liked it. Seems to me that it puts something inside the quote that shouldn't be there, necessarily, and confuses the ending of the sentence with the end of the quote.

The situation is even worse if the quote is, say, a question, and the sentence incorporating it isn't.

The first and last letters have to be correct, but all the others simply have to be there with nothing missing and nothing extra, in any sequence That's not quite so. What was found was that randomizing the internal letters made little difference - but that is partly an artifact of the circumstance that randomizing the letters in a fairly short sequence (most words are fairly short) seldom destroys the structure or sequence of the sounds completely.

If you set about systematically to destroy the sounds, you can pretty much render prose into code by rearranging the internal letters of the words.

Elmpxe: snprtaaeig innrtael lrttees cnnnsaoot from vweol, then abhlnptzaeiig slprtaaeey, flnqrteeuy obcrsttus chmnprseioon.

[LadyMidnight]

I don't mind if others have mediocre writing skills, as long as I can understand what they're saying. Formal grammar and excessive proofreading is not necessary on forums, but writing in a way that enables others to understand you is nice. I find it really annoying when sentences are so mangled that you have to struggle to understand their meaning. I usually don't bother trying.

[firdroirich]

Even before I was too young to stress, I remember being particular about grammar, punctuation, pronunciation and most of all...spelling. The stress began when I realised that not too many people care. :D

[Oli]

Period outside the quotes is called "logical" punctuation.
It stems, AFAIK, from computer programming and the manuals.
Originally it was inside, but to a programmer seeing
Type "%."
Would mean he entered 96. and not 96
It's explained better in the Yellow Book the hard copy of Eric Raymond's the Jargon File.
(There are numerous copies on the net (surprise! as that's all the book is -printed and tidied net files))