Shanequa, LaQuanda, etc: Strange Names among African Americans

[madanthonywayne]

If you meet an African American in their forties or above, they'll have names like Kyle, Henry, George, etc. But at some point in the last few decades, black people began coming up with names like Shaniqua, Laquanda, Precious, Anfernee, or Mercedes. What is the origin of this trend?

[draqon]

media culture spreading across Africa

[tim840]

i have no idea. im not sure whether those names are real african names, or if they're made up by American blacks. Actually, I know at least one that is not authentically African: LaPrecious. A girl at school has got that name, and i think shes from somewhere in the south. Things like Shaniqua though, i dont know. Oh and I have a friend named Kleshie, her parents are immigrants from Africa, and her name is really African.

[Fraggle Rocker]

. . . . or Mercedes.Mercedes is an established female name. It means "graces" in Spanish. Mercedes Sosa is one of the top singers in Argentina. Mercedes Ruehl, the American actress (best known for her role in "The Fisher King") was born in 1948.

In 1900 Emil Jellinech ordered a car from Gottfried Daimler, built to specifications he supplied. He also stipulated that the type of engine he designed would be named the Daimler-Mercedes, after his daughter Mercedes Jellinech. Mercedes was registered as a trade name in 1902 and soon became the name for the entire line of cars made by the company that was eventually renamed Daimler-Benz.

Jellinech wanted a sports car that was not just for today or tomorrow, but for "the day after tomorrow." His advanced features included a long wheelbase, wide track, chassis-mounted engine, low center of gravity and electric ignition.

[madanthonywayne]

Mercedes is an established female name. It means "graces" in Spanish. Mercedes Sosa is one of the top singers in Argentina. Mercedes Ruehl, the American actress (best known for her role in "The Fisher King") was born in 1948.

In 1900 Emil Jellinech ordered a car from Gottfried Daimler, built to specifications he supplied. He also stipulated that the type of engine he designed would be named the Daimler-Mercedes, after his daughter Mercedes Jellinech. Mercedes was registered as a trade name in 1902 and soon became the name for the entire line of cars made by the company that was eventually renamed Daimler-Benz.

Jellinech wanted a sports car that was not just for today or tomorrow, but for "the day after tomorrow." His advanced features included a long wheelbase, wide track, chassis-mounted engine, low center of gravity and electric ignition.Ok, Mercedes was a bad example. How about Shaniqua?

[iceaura]

Precious is another one not so strange. I've had white neighbors with daughters Faith, Hope, and Charity. Eastern Seaboard upper class whites are famous for goofy sobriquets used as names - Scooter Libby, four thousand Missys and Buffys.

The goofiest black name I know of is George - for six sons of the same father.

[quadraphonics]

Go read Freakanomics if you really want to know the answer to this question, and aren't just looking for an outlet for "gosh, black people are so funny" type of sentiments.

Notice that this same phenomenon occurred in pretty much every other racial category in the United States, at the same time. You won't meet many Ethans in the 40+ white population (especially if you exclude Jews), but it's currently among the top 10 most popular names for newborn gentile boys.

This kind of thing gets REALLY extreme in more class-bound societies (like, say Britain), where there is a constant effort by the upper classes to come up with weird names to distinguish their offspring from everyone else, which then trickles down.

This also happens in the United States, of course. For example, witness the decline of names like "Brittney" or "Kiesha:" once respectable, even classy names, which are now synonymous with trailer trash.

[spidergoat]

The reason for this was the re-emergence of a strong African identity among many African-Americans in the 1960's. They gave up their "slave names", in favor of those reminiscent of African ones (although I'm not sure if they are truly African).

[madanthonywayne]

The reason for this was the re-emergence of a strong African identity among many African-Americans in the 1960's. They gave up their "slave names", in favor of those reminiscent of African ones (although I'm not sure if they are truly African).
Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate. I remember doing an exam on this black kid with a really wierd name, but he wanted everyone to call him "Sean". This would piss his mom off, she complained that girls were always calling the house asking for Sean rather than the ridiculous name she'd saddled the kid with. Even Baraq Obama used to go by "Barry". Don't parents consider the effect they're having on their children when they give them some ridiculous name?

[Orleander]

Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate. I remember doing an exam on this black kid with a really wierd name, but he wanted everyone to call him "Sean". ....

Yep, I worked with a woman who's parents named her Princess. She said her name was Judy.
Growing up I knew a Bambi and a Bunny. Those are stripper names for crying out loud!

[spidergoat]

Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate. I remember doing an exam on this black kid with a really wierd name, but he wanted everyone to call him "Sean". This would piss his mom off, she complained that girls were always calling the house asking for Sean rather than the ridiculous name she'd saddled the kid with. Even Baraq Obama used to go by "Barry". Don't parents consider the effect they're having on their children when they give them some ridiculous name?

They call that pride. I think it can backfire on the kids though.

[MacGyver1968]

The reason for this was the re-emergence of a strong African identity among many African-Americans in the 1960's. They gave up their "slave names", in favor of those reminiscent of African ones (although I'm not sure if they are truly African).

That makes total sense to me. During that time there was a movement for African Americans to get back to their African roots..and through the 60's and the 70's for "socially conscient" African American's to wear traditional African clothes. It only makes sense that mothers would start giving their kids more African sounding names.

Different cultures have different traditions about naming babies. It seems to me that atleast some of the African American culture has a fondness to give their child a "unique" or different name. My father's name is Zifton..we know no others. As he said: "A name is to distinguish you from everyone else..and how distinguished can you be?" Some of those names listed in the OP probably started with an African origin..and as mothers heard a name and liked it...they changed it up a little to give it "uniqueness".

[Pandaemoni]

Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate. I remember doing an exam on this black kid with a really wierd name, but he wanted everyone to call him "Sean". This would piss his mom off, she complained that girls were always calling the house asking for Sean rather than the ridiculous name she'd saddled the kid with. Even Baraq Obama used to go by "Barry". Don't parents consider the effect they're having on their children when they give them some ridiculous name?

Are am not sure that first names should be the hallmark of assimilation. Names and spellings change all the time. It is pretty difficult for kids named Eugene, Quincy, Marvin, or Orville too, and even some presidential first names are tough sells, Chester, Calvin, Millard, Rutherford, Ronald, Franklin, Lyndon, but I would not take "Marvin" or "Millard" as a sign of non-assimilation.

To me, in fact, I'd be surprised to hear the name Shanequa on anyone *but* an American. On the other hand, my first name is German in origin and most of "traditional" names that people think of like Robert, Bill, Henry, Nick, James, Fred, Alex, etc, come from languages like French, German and Greek, etc. The purely "English" names like Ethelred, Egbert, Aelfric, Cerdic, Osbourne (as a first name) and Godwin you pretty much never hear outside of a history book (though you do hear a very limited handful, some more than others, like Dunstan, Alfred and Edward (Eadweard)).

Names are subject to fads, I myself knew two kids name "Lance," four named "Taylor," three "Briannas" and two "Brielles." Those names don't hearken back to anything American, whereas Shanequa was basically invented here.

Even the now common "Anthony," "Patrick," "Andrea," "Donna," "Brandon," "Vincent," "Ryan," were "ethnic" names not so long ago, brought here by the supposedly ape-like Italians and dirty Irish. I do not see that the use of those traditional, and ultimately foreign, names impeded the assimilation of those groups, despite the nasty discrimination those with those names faced. Then again, I think it can be asked, is the proper response to discrimination against a child to cave in and let the bigots have their way?

Edit: As for "Barack," the President is named directly after his father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. I suppose that answers the "what were they thinking?" question.

[Saquist]

If you meet an African American in their forties or above, they'll have names like Kyle, Henry, George, etc. But at some point in the last few decades, black people began coming up with names like Shaniqua, Laquanda, Precious, Anfernee, or Mercedes. What is the origin of this trend?

This thread is hilarious...It's the epitome of ignorance on the african american culture. How can you not know that those names have origins from Africa. Have you guys not met any real BLACK PEOPLE or what...

The computer is a remarkable device but you can't experience....EVERYTHING through it. You have 8,000 post! Get off that computer and go somewhere before the world ends.

[Tyler]

Actually, according to the interwebs Shaniqua has no African origins at all. It is a purely American name with no apparent meaning.

My personal guess is someone wanted to name their kid something African-sounding, but didn't actually know anything abut African names.

[Nasor]

This thread is hilarious...It's the epitome of ignorance on the african american culture. How can you not know that those names have origins from Africa. Have you guys not met any real BLACK PEOPLE or what...

Have to agree with Tyler on this one. I know a number of genuinly african people in my university department, and they all say they're never heard anything like most of the names that african americans make up for their kids. So far as I can tell, most of the names are simply made up to sound nice. Which I guess is as good a way as any, but it's got to suck for the kids when everyone else in class is named Judy or Susan, and they're named Shaquifa or something.

[madanthonywayne]

Edit: As for "Barack," the President is named directly after his father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. I suppose that answers the "what were they thinking?" question.I'm aware of that. I simply brought up the "Barry" thing to point out how kids often respond to having unusual names.
This thread is hilarious...It's the epitome of ignorance on the african american culture. How can you not know that those names have origins from Africa. Have you guys not met any real BLACK PEOPLE or what...As has been pointed out above, most of the names in question are completely made up and were never used in Africa.

The computer is a remarkable device but you can't experience....EVERYTHING through it. You have 8,000 post! Get off that computer and go somewhere before the world ends.
Dude, you post 3.5 posts per day and I post 4.9. I've simply been a member longer. Or is 1.4 posts per day the difference between spending too much time on the computer and the exact right amount of time?

[Saquist]

Even though these names don't actually exist. It was my understanding that these names are Americanized derivitives of African names. I know alot of African individuals from a number of countries but they are usually males. Frank's real name I couldn't hope to pronouce.

Thus it still begs the question, why don't you ask?

[Fraggle Rocker]

If you trace any name back far enough, it's made up. Daniel is one of the most ancient and respectable names in Western society, but Dan-i-El is Hebrew for "judged by God," and was coined as a name by the Jewish tribes in the Biblical era. Eugene is Greek Eu-Genes, "well-born," i.e. noble. Alfred is Anglo-Saxon Elf-Read, "Counseled by Elves," i.e. wise. Maximilian (the full name of which Max is the nickname) is Latin for "the Greatest." Perhaps Mohammed Ali the boxer would have liked to be so named.

You're all probably thinking, "But those are at least real words. They mean something. Who wants a name that was made up of random syllables and doesn't mean anything?"

Well then ponder the lives of some of the people who were recently given names that mean something: Moon Unit Zappa, Chastity Bono, China Slick. Or go back further to the famous Puritan ministers who figure in American history: Increase Mather and his father Cotton Mather.

Texas Governor Big Jim Hogg named his daughter Ima Hogg. She grew up to be a renowned philanthropist and one of the most respected ladies in 20th-century Texas, and struggled to downplay that name throughout her life, going by her initials and scrawling her signature illegibly. (Rumors that she had a sister named Ura are apocryphal.)

Somehow I think she would rather have been named Laquonda.

[spidergoat]

This thread is hilarious...It's the epitome of ignorance on the african american culture. How can you not know that those names have origins from Africa. Have you guys not met any real BLACK PEOPLE or what...

The computer is a remarkable device but you can't experience....EVERYTHING through it. You have 8,000 post! Get off that computer and go somewhere before the world ends.

They are probably not African, but there are many African-inspired African-American names. What it means is that segregation and Jim Crow laws created a parallel culture, with it's own customs, names, and holidays (Kwanzaa).

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: My Black girlfriend from New Jersey has four grown sons named John, James, Thomas and Eric. We had a conversation a few years ago about African sounding names of some students we had: LaKeesha, Tawanda, Faniqua and DeShawna. I assumed they were African names, but she told me otherwise. Interestingly, she said were those were made-up ghetto names.

[madanthonywayne]

Texas Governor Big Jim Hogg named his daughter Ima Hogg. She grew up to be a renowned philanthropist and one of the most respected ladies in 20th-century Texas, and struggled to downplay that name throughout her life, going by her initials and scrawling her signature illegibly. (Rumors that she had a sister named Ura are apocryphal.)

Somehow I think she would rather have been named Laquonda.
Ima Hogg? Holy shit! What kind of asshole would name his daughter that!

[Tiassa]

The general theme of such names, as far as I've been able to determine over time, is rhythmic. Notice how many of them are short syllables of one or two letters tacked onto the front of a regular name. Jamarcus, D'Marco, and so on.

To the other, though, I find it a pleasant alternative to another phenomenon in American culture, whereby you give your kid a normal name, but just spell it weird.

[madanthonywayne]

To the other, though, I find it a pleasant alternative to another phenomenon in American culture, whereby you give your kid a normal name, but just spell it weird.That is annoying. I'll bet it's especially annoying for the kid to be constantly having to correct people. I remember my wife had 2 kids in her class named Tyrone. One of them spelled it some bizzare way and his mother would go nuts if anyone "miss-spelled" it. She was constantly going off when she'd she one of the papers from the other Tyrone and wouldn't believe it was the other kid's paper.

[domesticated om]

Perhaps Mohammed Ali the boxer would have liked to be so named.

I get the spirit of what you're trying to say......but I have a small factual nitpick.

You mean "Cassius Clay". He chose Muhammed Ali based on his religious and nationalist affiliations, so you're technically wrong. His name was totally what he wanted.

- at any rate, you're point is valid. Just wanted to post this as an FYI.

[Fraggle Rocker]

You mean "Cassius Clay". He chose Muhammed Ali based on his religious and nationalist affiliations, so you're technically wrong. His name was totally what he wanted.I know that; I lived through that era. But in the U.S. you're legally allowed to call yourself by any name you choose so long as there is no intent to defraud. You don't even have to have it changed legally in court; all you have to do is get everyone else to call you that, and we tend to be pretty accommodating about it. Only government records like your Social Security card, tax returns, driver's license and property deeds will continue to be in your official name.

This practice has been fairly common in the modern era among actors and musicians, but in recent decades it has spread to athletes and other entertainers. Archibald Leach was Cary Grant, Bob Zimmerman is Bob Dylan, and Cassius Clay is Mohammed Ali to everyone except the tax collector. His daughter's name is Layla Ali.

[Medicine*Woman]

Ima Hogg? Holy shit! What kind of asshole would name his daughter that!
*************
M*W: Miss Ima was a delicate and demure proper society lady who gave so much back to Texas.

http://www.famoustexans.com/imahogg.htm

[MacGyver1968]

*************
M*W: Miss Ima was a delicate and demure proper society lady who gave so much back to Texas.

http://www.famoustexans.com/imahogg.htm

Hell yeah!...she didn't let her unfortunate name affect her ability to make an impact. We could use more people like that.

[MacGyver1968]

I know that; I lived through that era. But in the U.S. you're legally allowed to call yourself by any name you choose so long as there is no intent to defraud. You don't even have to have it changed legally in court; all you have to do is get everyone else to call you that, and we tend to be pretty accommodating about it. Only government records like your Social Security card, tax returns, driver's license and property deeds will continue to be in your official name.

This practice has been fairly common in the modern era among actors and musicians, but in recent decades it has spread to athletes and other entertainers. Archibald Leach was Cary Grant, Bob Zimmerman is Bob Dylan, and Cassius Clay is Mohammed Ali to everyone except the tax collector. His daughter's name is Layla Ali.

Sean Combs is the perfect example...he changes his name more often than I buy new shoes. I think he has gone by Puff Daddy, P. ditty, Puffy, Ditty, and I think a couple of others.

[domesticated om]

I know that; I lived through that era.

I just meant you were wrong about Clay ever hypothetically liking the name "Maximilian" since he consciously chose "Muhammed Ali" based on his views.

The spirit of what you were saying was that "Maximilian was the kind of name that Cassius Clay would have appreciated due to it's meaning" .......which also coincides with a few of his historic quotes ("I am the greatest of all time!").
....but he actively chose another name "Muhammed Ali" IRL which proves his real preference, so the true context of your hypothetical comment is actually wrong.


This is all off topic though.....I was just nitpicking

[mikenostic]

If you meet an African American in their forties or above, they'll have names like Kyle, Henry, George, etc. But at some point in the last few decades, black people began coming up with names like Shaniqua, Laquanda, Precious, Anfernee, or Mercedes. What is the origin of this trend?

I'm white. Should we be called 'European Americans'?
If you live in America, and you are an American citizen, you are an American. There is no fuckin European, Mexican, Asian or any other prefix before it; whether denoting race or nationality.

[John99]

I'm white. Should we be called 'European Americans'?
If you live in America, and you are an American citizen, you are an American.

It is pretty common though. With Polish Americans, Italian Americans, Irish American and Scotch Irish, West Indian, East Indian.

[Nasor]

I'm white. Should we be called 'European Americans'?
If you live in America, and you are an American citizen, you are an American. There is no fuckin European, Mexican, Asian or any other prefix before it; whether denoting race or nationality.
How would you suggest people talk about their cultural heritage? I guess I could say "I'm an American of Italian ancestry," but that's a bit cumbersome...calling myself Italian American is more convenient.

[Orleander]

How would you suggest people talk about their cultural heritage? I guess I could say "I'm an American of Italian ancestry," but that's a bit cumbersome...calling myself Italian American is more convenient.

well, my Dad is from Scotland, but I have never considered myself Scottish American.
I'm an American. And that is my children's heritage as well.

[Saquist]

*************
M*W: My Black girlfriend from New Jersey has four grown sons named John, James, Thomas and Eric. We had a conversation a few years ago about African sounding names of some students we had: LaKeesha, Tawanda, Faniqua and DeShawna. I assumed they were African names, but she told me otherwise. Interestingly, she said were those were made-up ghetto names.

I'm not surprised...I assumed they were African names too...

Have to agree with Tyler on this one. I know a number of genuinly african people in my university department, and they all say they're never heard anything like most of the names that african americans make up for their kids. So far as I can tell, most of the names are simply made up to sound nice. Which I guess is as good a way as any, but it's got to suck for the kids when everyone else in class is named Judy or Susan, and they're named Shaquifa or something.

Ah...but atleast you two asked.
This unfortunantly brings down my perception of the American Black culture...again. I wish I didn't know.

[CutsieMarie89]

It's just a part of black culture. Maybe it's just me but certain names seem to be rather common depending on where you live or what sub culture in America you identify with. Many lower class black people name their kids Latisha, Tanifa, or Tyreke. But they only sound strange because their relatively new. Names like Sapna and Tatewaki sound weird to me, but if I lived around a lot of Indians or Japanese people I probably wouldn't think they were so weird sounding. All names are just made up, personally I wish my parents had given me a bit more unique of a name.

[iceaura]

At one recent time many black Americans were sensitive to the fact that their very names - on top of their language, religion, clothing, food, etc - had been simply pasted on them by slave-owners for the slave-owner's convenience and whim.

But they had no other source of names - the practical connections with the particular areas in Africa long obliterated, and no intellectual class preserving cultural identity through history.

So a tradition of inventing names, euphonious and more or less gender-evoking in the aural culture extant, is sort of reasonable.

[Fraggle Rocker]

All names are just made up. . . .Chinese names are not just made up but crafted. You've got your surname of course. But there are only four hundred of those to serve more than a billion people, so you have to be pretty creative with the second and third name to avoid having a hundred thousand William Roger Smiths walking around in the same city.

The second name is a generation name that's unique to the generation and the family. ("Branch" of the family to be precise; all three million Chinese people with the surname Li are considered to be members of the same "family" and they're not supposed to marry each other.) Your family can choose any of the five thousand common characters; that way your name will be printable. I suppose if your family is powerful they can choose from the entire set of 75,000 and printers will scramble to get the character from academic publishers. Anyway, the generation names are selected about five generations in advance so there's no one alive you can blame if you don't like the one you get.

Then finally the third name is unique to the individual, and the parents get to choose that one. Again, it can be any Chinese word. Still, 5,000 x 5,000 = only 25 million, so there's still a good chance that you might have a namesake in another city.

Sometimes people break with the tradition. My Chinese girlfriend and her brother were born in the 1930s, after Japan had started WWII by occupying northeastern China. Her father was a general in the army so for their second name he gave them the word "remember" and for their third name he gave them each the name of one of the captured provinces.

[Tyler]

I love Chinese names. One of my good friends' name translates as "Master of the Known Universe".

Some English names have old meanings that are equally hilarious, but usually those meanings are hidden and the name is no longer used as a word in daily function.

[Orleander]

I love Chinese names. One of my good friends' name translates as "Master of the Known Universe"....

LOL, an only son?

[Nasor]

At one recent time many black Americans were sensitive to the fact that their very names - on top of their language, religion, clothing, food, etc - had been simply pasted on them by slave-owners for the slave-owner's convenience and whim.

But they had no other source of names - the practical connections with the particular areas in Africa long obliterated, and no intellectual class preserving cultural identity through history.

So a tradition of inventing names, euphonious and more or less gender-evoking in the aural culture extant, is sort of reasonable.
That would all make sense if we were talking about 1880. But these new, made-up names didn't take off until about 20 years ago. I think it's just a fashion thing; many of their friends make up names for their kids, so they follow along.

[firdroirich]

What's in a name?

[visceral_instinct]

Shaniqua is actually a pretty normal sounding name.

I agree with Orly about names like Princess, though. A name can be distinctive without being ridiculous.

[CutsieMarie89]

These names actually have meaning associated to them now. I was surprised. So they are no longer just crazy and made up. They're official.

[visceral_instinct]

I would imagine they arose as part of a subculture, an additional way of having your own racial identity. ?

[CutsieMarie89]

I guess. They are consider authentic American names. And considering the names other Americans have made up, no one should be pointing the finger at African Americans. "Chakalaka, December, Dragon, Blue, Easter, Gutsy, Happy," It's like they're just picking words out of the dictionary.

[takandjive]

How come it takes someone from the UK to answer the damn question about American culture?

Yes, those names arose in part because of the civil rights movement and creating a unique African AMERICAN identity.

[visceral_instinct]

^Exactly. White people have named their kids things like Fifi Trixibelle. No one attaches that to their race.

[madanthonywayne]

^Exactly. White people have named their kids things like Fifi Trixibelle. No one attaches that to their race.A strange name has to be an unusual name. So when a member of the majority group names their child something weird, clearly that can not attributed to their race since, if that were the case, the weird name would be a common name.

We generally consider white people who give their children crazy names to just be idiots.

[CutsieMarie89]

A strange name has to be an unusual name. So when a member of the majority group names their child something weird, clearly that can not attributed to their race since, if that were the case, the weird name would be a common name.

We generally consider white people who give their children crazy names to just be idiots.
That's cuz there are so many of them it's easy to brush aside the number that give their kids weird names off as weirdos, and for other races you don't understand their language. So when a mexican lady shows up with a daughters named Chica and Mantel (real life example) u think nothing of it. But "Girl" and "Tablecloth" are not normal names.

[Fraggle Rocker]

I guess. They are consider authentic American names. And considering the names other Americans have made up, no one should be pointing the finger at African Americans. "Chakalaka, December, Dragon, Blue, Easter, Gutsy, Happy," It's like they're just picking words out of the dictionary.Those sound like dwarves.:)

Why is that any worse than picking them out of the Bible? Michael, David, Judith, John, Daniel, Luke, Noah, Mary, Levi, Raphael, Eli, Esther...

The most common name on Earth is Mohammed.

Many of the names we now consider "standard" were originally made up. "Alfred" means "taking the counsel of elves," i.e., "wise." "Eugene" means "high-born," i.e, "noble." "William" means "desire for a helmet," i.e., "protection." "George" means simply "farmer." BTW, that whole list of biblical names were originally made up in Hebrew. Anything ending in -el has something to do with "God."

I'm getting bored with everybody having the same two or three hundred names. I like it when people name their kids River and Moon Unit (and most especially Dweezil). I have a friend named Meadow.

[madanthonywayne]

The most common name on Earth is Mohammed.
Reminds me of Superbad, where the idiot got the fake ID and said he couldn't decide between: Mohammed ("most common name on earth, but not so common in the US) and McLovin'. He went with, of course, McLovin'.

[wise acre]

Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate. I remember doing an exam on this black kid with a really wierd name, but he wanted everyone to call him "Sean". This would piss his mom off, she complained that girls were always calling the house asking for Sean rather than the ridiculous name she'd saddled the kid with. Even Baraq Obama used to go by "Barry". Don't parents consider the effect they're having on their children when they give them some ridiculous name?So because of this kid's experience black parents are doing something wrong? You really don't know white kids who don't hate their names or are saddled by names that many kids would shudder to have? Do you have some source that backs up the implicit idea that black kids with names you do not consider 1) american enough that are also not what you consider 2) authentically african
are upset by the names their parents gave them?

Further I personally would have no trouble having someone in my workplace with the names you disapprove of. IOW I cannot see these names as anti-assimilation. In fact I find the idea kind of strange. Aren't most of these people assimilated? If I hear that name should I expect to have to teach them American Culture - whatever that is? If Jews take names from the old Testement like Yael, should I think they don't want their kids to assimilate?

How about latino names? Are these rebellions against assimilation? Or are they OK as long as they are traditional latino names?

Seems to me we have had a melting pot of names for a long time. People have been creative and boring about name choices. People have brought names from other countries. Some have chosen to change their names to make it easier. But many we can be past all that.

I do think Sean should be able to call himself Sean.
And if my mother had called me Melvin I might have called myself Sean also, no offense to any Melvins reading this.....

But come on.

And look at those 'white' names on Repo's list. Are they somehow objectively better? Jesus.

[nirakar]

Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate.

I think that was a fuck you reaction to feeling that they would never be allowed to assimilate and never be considered equal to whites. I think they did this as soon as they felt safe enough to say fuck you to whites.

James Brown "I'm black and I'm proud" song might have gotten him lynched in an earlier time.

Keeping the old English names has no particular value anyway accept that they are easy for English speaking people to remember.

[Repo Man]

James Brown "I'm black and I'm proud" song might have gotten him lynched in an earlier time.

Might have? Are you familiar with the case of Emmett Till? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till)

[nirakar]

Might have? Are you familiar with the case of Emmett Till? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till)

Yes.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Seems to me we have had a melting pot of names for a long time. People have been creative and boring about name choices. People have brought names from other countries. Some have chosen to change their names to make it easier. But many we can be past all that.The ten most popular baby names in the USA in 2007 were:

(Boys) Aiden (Irish), Jayden (Hebrew), Jacob (Hebrew), Michael (Hebrew), Christopher (Greek), Ethan (Hebrew), Joshua (Hebrew), Daniel (Hebrew), Anthony (Etruscan), Matthew (Aramaic)

(Girls) Emma (German), Isabella (Hebrew), Emily (Latin), Madison (English), Ava (Hebrew), Olivia (English), Sophia (Greek), Abigail (Hebrew), Elizabeth (Hebrew), Chloe (Greek)

Note that only two of the girls' names and none of the boys' names are English.

Hebrew: 10
Greek: 3
English: 2
Irish: 1
Etruscan: 1
Aramaic: 1
German: 1
Latin: 1I do think Sean should be able to call himself Sean.Sean is the Irish form of John/Juan/Jean/Jan/Giovanni/João/Johann/Ivan.And if my mother had called me Melvin I might have called myself Sean also, no offense to any Melvins reading this.....I can't find any origin for the name Melvin. It might be a variant of the French name Melville, "bad town" or the Irish girl's name Malvina, "smooth brow."

[Pandaemoni]

What I hate is when foreigners come into a country and give their kids strange names that evidence their desire to never assimilate, and here I am thinking of Norman England and weird sounding French names (weird to the English ear anyway) that started popping up amongst the Frenchies, like "Robert," "Allison," "William," "Amy," "Louis," "Richard," "Henry," "Emma," "Roger" etc. As we all know from history, the Normans miserably failed to assimilate, a failure based, almost entirely, on their many foreign-sounding names. :D

And don't even get me started on the non-assimilation of the Jews with all their weird foreign sounding names, like "Aaron," "Rachel," "Benjamin," "Daniel," "Elizabeth," "Michael," "Sarah," etc. Do Jews expect to be taken seriously with names like that?

(Kidding, of course.)

I think there is no good evidence that "strange" sounding names are a serious hindrance to assimilation or social cohesiveness. There was a study that showed that in the U.S. having a "black sounding" name on top of a resume seriously lessened the likelihood of getting an interview, as compared to the exact same resume with a more traditional American name on it. SO it seems like I have seen more evidence of "the culture" being hostile to offbeat ethnic names than vice versa.

I am sticking to giving my kids good, old-fashioned traditional names, like the Gaelic "Siobhan" (pronounced "Shi-VAHN"). :p

[Fraggle Rocker]

I am thinking of Norman England and weird sounding French names (weird to the English ear anyway) that started popping up amongst the Frenchies, like "Robert," "Allison," "William," "Amy," "Louis," "Richard," "Henry," "Emma," "Roger" etc.Ironically, since both the Franks ("French") and the Norsemen ("Normans") were Germanic tribes, many of those Norman French names are of Germanic origin. A couple of them even predate the Germanic diaspora and had Anglo-Saxon forms, such as Hrodberht=Robert, but the Norman renditions replaced them.As we all know from history, the Normans miserably failed to assimilate. . . .An interesting historical episode, in which the conquerors assimilated into the conquered people rather than the other way round. I can't find the precise chronology but probably in the 13th century the Norman rulers started speaking English.

The Chinese accomplished the same thing twice, swallowing up both their Mongol conquerors and the Manchurians. On the other hand the Anglo-Saxons, for their part, had marginalized or displaced the original Celtic people, turning southern "Britannia" into "Angle Land" but stealing their name, "Britons."And don't even get me started on the non-assimilation of the Jews with all their weird foreign sounding names, like "Aaron," "Rachel," "Benjamin," "Daniel," "Elizabeth," "Michael," "Sarah," etc. Do Jews expect to be taken seriously with names like that?At one time it was a fad for Jewish parents to give their children Gentile names that had a vague resemblance to Hebrew names. Urban legend says this practice screeched to a halt when one family named their son Isadore after Isaac, and learned too late that the only Isadore of historical significance was the archbishop of Seville during the Inquisition.There was a study that showed that in the U.S. having a "black sounding" name on top of a resume seriously lessened the likelihood of getting an interview, as compared to the exact same resume with a more traditional American name on it.At the peak of the Affirmative Discrimination movement, it worked the other way. People with Spanish surnames were picked out of applicant lists, especially in civil service.I am sticking to giving my kids good, old-fashioned traditional names, like the Gaelic "Siobhan" (pronounced "Shi-VAHN").Siobhan is the Gaelic rendition of Joan, the feminine form of John/Ian/Jean/Ivan, from Latin Johannes, from Hebrew Yokhanan, meaning "God is gracious."

[Enmos]

My Chinese girlfriend and her brother were born in the 1930s, after Japan had started WWII by occupying northeastern China. Her father was a general in the army so for their second name he gave them the word "remember" and for their third name he gave them each the name of one of the captured provinces.
Is that considered absurd in Chinese tradition ?
I wouldn't even give my pets a name like that.. it's like you're naming an object rather than a person.

[ili]

The black community in America feel they are outside of the main culture so they reflect that by naming their children with non-American names and also referring themselves as as subculture by classifying themselves as African-Americans.

Celebrities also name their kids stupid names:

http://www.hollywire.com/lists/when-celebrity-baby-naming-goes-bad/

[Pandaemoni]

The black community in America feel they are outside of the main culture so they reflect that by naming their children with non-American names and also referring themselves as as subculture by classifying themselves as African-Americans.

Celebrities also name their kids stupid names:

http://www.hollywire.com/lists/when-celebrity-baby-naming-goes-bad/

Some of those are ridiculous...a few though...

Is "Corde" really such a bad name? Certainly not common, but it is a proper English (girl's) name as a shortening of "Cordelia." Given the three little girls I know with traditional boys names (Taylor, Madison and Casey) I have to side with Snoop Dog on that one.

A few are not that bad. "Magnus Paulin Ferrel?" "Magnus" is a traditional Scandinavian and Scottish name (and the other two are the parents surnames) derived from Latin.

"Sosie", "Coco", "Brawley," "Maddox Chivan" (noting that Maddox is a normal Gaelic baby name and Chivan just a phonetic respelling of the Gaelic "Siobhan")...I don't see those as so bad.

"Aurelius Cy" is a little pretentious, but if a child as a built in reason to read Meditations by Emperor Marcus Aurelius, he could do worse. How many kids over the past decade do we expect received a name that their parents lifted out of Harry Potter? [Edit: OMG, at least one source has it that the name "Harry" was on the outs because it was an "old fogey" name...but recently it is "very cool, hip" because of its association with Harry Potter. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/13/earlyshow/leisure/books/main3160651.shtml]

[Fraggle Rocker]

Is that considered absurd in Chinese tradition? I wouldn't even give my pets a name like that.. it's like you're naming an object rather than a person.No, it's perfectly okay. Remember, Chinese doesn't have any "words" that are specifically "names." Every morpheme has a meaning. Every established combination of two or more has a meaning that is somewhere on the spectrum between the syntactically obvious (fan ting = food room = "dining room") and the lost logic of an ancient generation (dong xi = east west = "thing").

And every Chinese name is a combination of morphemes that have perfectly serviceable meanings. The second name is the generation name, chosen by a distant ancestor and recorded in a book that every (patrilineal) branch of the family has a copy of. All members of a generation have the same generation name. The third name is the parents' choice. My friend's father was sufficiently high in the Nationalist chain of command that it was not a violation of Confucian tradition for him to create a new generation name that had meaning in the context of modern Chinese history.

But getting back to words for a moment, if you make up a combination that is not established it had better be grammatically obvious or no one will understand it. Wan an is not the way to say "good evening," but since it literally means "evening peace" no one ever failed to understand me and I even got a few respectful winks for understanding the spirit of Chinese, if not the dictionary.

And I do mean obvious, because since there are only 1,600 phonetically possible syllables in Mandarin, every morpheme has an average of three homonyms--just using the minimal vocabulary of 5,000 han zi they're supposed to learn to write in high school. When you put two together the listener has nine possible combinations to sort through.

So when it comes to names, there are no rules except Confucian tradition about making it possible for members of the same generation to recognize each other by name. Most names are relatively illogical combinations of morphemes like "east west," whose meaning becomes established as that particular person's name. When my friend's father named her "remember" plus "first syllable of province name"--which itself is a morpheme with its own meaning, drafted into service to form a name that's only recognizable when joined to the other half--no one could possibly divine his intention without being told; it lurks beneath two layers of codebreaking. Her name is no more odd than (Mao) Ze-Dong or (Deng) Xiao-Ping.

You wouldn't name your pet "Remember the Alamo," but I'll bet there are quite a few dogs in Texas who answer to just plain "Alamo."

Many if not all Hebrew names are built that way. "Yisra-El" means "wrestles with God."

[Enmos]

No, it's perfectly okay. Remember, Chinese doesn't have any "words" that are specifically "names." Every morpheme has a meaning. Every established combination of two or more has a meaning that is somewhere on the spectrum between the syntactically obvious (fan ting = food room = "dining room") and the lost logic of an ancient generation (dong xi = east west = "thing").

And every Chinese name is a combination of morphemes that have perfectly serviceable meanings. The second name is the generation name, chosen by a distant ancestor and recorded in a book that every (patrilineal) branch of the family has a copy of. All members of a generation have the same generation name. The third name is the parents' choice. My friend's father was sufficiently high in the Nationalist chain of command that it was not a violation of Confucian tradition for him to create a new generation name that had meaning in the context of modern Chinese history.

But getting back to words for a moment, if you make up a combination that is not established it had better be grammatically obvious or no one will understand it. Wan an is not the way to say "good evening," but since it literally means "evening peace" no one ever failed to understand me and I even got a few respectful winks for understanding the spirit of Chinese, if not the dictionary.

And I do mean obvious, because since there are only 1,600 phonetically possible syllables in Mandarin, every morpheme has an average of three homonyms--just using the minimal vocabulary of 5,000 han zi they're supposed to learn to write in high school. When you put two together the listener has nine possible combinations to sort through.

So when it comes to names, there are no rules except Confucian tradition about making it possible for members of the same generation to recognize each other by name. Most names are relatively illogical combinations of morphemes like "east west," whose meaning becomes established as that particular person's name. When my friend's father named her "remember" plus "first syllable of province name"--which itself is a morpheme with its own meaning, drafted into service to form a name that's only recognizable when joined to the other half--no one could possibly divine his intention without being told; it lurks beneath two layers of codebreaking. Her name is no more odd than (Mao) Ze-Dong or (Deng) Xiao-Ping.

You wouldn't name your pet "Remember the Alamo," but I'll bet there are quite a few dogs in Texas who answer to just plain "Alamo."

Many if not all Hebrew names are built that way. "Yisra-El" means "wrestles with God."

Thanks for explaining Fraggle ! :)
I have one question though.
Who decides on the generation name ? If two brother get kids around the same time which one gets to decide ? I mean, there's only one generation name allowed..

[CutsieMarie89]

Of course a name is just a name. Even if your name is Buttface, it maybe be weird sounding at first, but after a short time that's just your name and people rarely think about the meaning.

[Fraggle Rocker]

I have one question though. Who decides on the generation name ? If two brother get kids around the same time which one gets to decide ? I mean, there's only one generation name allowed.The generation names are chosen about five generations in advance. Maybe longer if your family is prominent. If you were born in 1980 your generation name was selected by somebody who died in 1890.

There is no problem with two brothers having kids at the same time. They BOTH use the generation name. Even two cousins having kids at the same time. Even two second cousins having kids at the same time! All of your siblings, first, second, third and fourth cousins will have that same generation name. There might be two hundred of you.

If you run into someone who has the same surname and generation name as you do, you know that they are members of your family and your generation, even if you've never met them and don't know where their home is. Your relationship might be only in having the same great-great-great grandparents--the ones who picked that name for all of you.

* All of this is strictly patrilineal, of course. Maternal lineage doesn't count for much. You can't marry someone with the same surname because you're "related" back at some point in the gene pool's distant past. But you could probably marry your mother's niece--your first cousin--because she has a different surname so that relationship is nearly irrelevant.

[Cyperium]

If you meet an African American in their forties or above, they'll have names like Kyle, Henry, George, etc. But at some point in the last few decades, black people began coming up with names like Shaniqua, Laquanda, Precious, Anfernee, or Mercedes. What is the origin of this trend?I think it has to do with popularity, also Shaniqua sounds exotic, and I guess that being exotic is nice if you are an African American girl. Movies also have great influence in this I think, nice looking (and popular) girls in movies named Shaniqua will definitely create a trend. If I've seen a movie featuring African Americans there's often popular and nice looking girls that have exotic sounding names.

[Acid Cowboy]

If you meet an African American in their forties or above, they'll have names like Kyle, Henry, George, etc. But at some point in the last few decades, black people began coming up with names like Shaniqua, Laquanda, Precious, Anfernee, or Mercedes. What is the origin of this trend?

It's people trying to be cute or fancy. Kinda like if parents name their child Jeremy, but spell it "Jaeramee".

[Acid Cowboy]

Of course a name is just a name. Even if your name is Buttface, it maybe be weird sounding at first, but after a short time that's just your name and people rarely think about the meaning.

Can you look me in the eye and honestly say that you could EVER forget the meaning of a name like "Buttface"? :D

[CutsieMarie89]

Can you look me in the eye and honestly say that you could EVER forget the meaning of a name like "Buttface"? :D

If I liked Buttface then yeah I could forget, if I didn't like Buttface then that would just be a source of ammunition for insulting them just like any other name I could find insult in. I had a counselor in middle school named Mrs. Bitchenshitz, but she was cool so by the second semester we could all say her name without giggling. :D

[mikenostic]

What's up with the PC??? They're black.
Or mad, if you want to go by that logic, all white people are now to be referred to as European-Americans.
What about black people in Europe? Are they European-Africans?
We're fuckin Americans. Not African/Asian/Mexian/European-Americans.

I work with and know quite a few black people. NONE of them really want to be referred to as African-Americans.

[Orleander]

I think Teresa Heinz, John Kerry's wife is African American.

[CutsieMarie89]

What's up with the PC??? They're black.
Or mad, if you want to go by that logic, all white people are now to be referred to as European-Americans.
What about black people in Europe? Are they European-Africans?
We're fuckin Americans. Not African/Asian/Mexian/European-Americans.

I work with and know quite a few black people. NONE of them really want to be referred to as African-Americans.

Do you start this up wherever you go? If some people feel more comfortable using politically correct language then they should. If someone told me to refer to them as white trash, I couldn't oblige them to their face. I wouldn't feel comfortable with or without their permission. So I stick with what I feel comfortable with and so should everyone else. African American may not be my favorite term for my race but it's better than some other less than tasteful ones.

[FreshHat]

We're fuckin Americans.

I actually hear that term used a lot, amongst non-US residents, moreso during the Bush II years :D

For the record, if I wanted an African name for a newborn daughter, I'd call her Violet.

[grimace]

my next child i would like to call 'little baby' and then when it gets to around a year or two then decide on a name.

[takandjive]

my next child i would like to call 'little baby' and then when it gets to around a year or two then decide on a name.

A baby knows his or her name at a few weeks old. It's the equiv. of giving an adopted older child a totally new name. It isn't advisable.

[grimace]

i would prefer to call him or her 'little baby' because that is what i would use all the time. its only a problem when you have more than one kid at the same time running around.

[takandjive]

That's good for having someone form a strong personal identity at an early age. :rolleyes:

[Tiassa]

A couple of notes. Lewis Black, in his Carnegie Hall performance, tells of a friend who was a social worker who handled an odd case. Apparently, the parents of one young girl wanted a rhythmic name for their child, and chose what works out to shi-THAY-uh. And her middle name was something normal, like Denise or Danielle. But the problem was the cruelty of the name. The social worker's file on the child read, Smith, Shithea D.

It's one of those jokes I'm hesitant to call true, except it's so well within the bounds of possibility. To the other, my grandfather once attended a preacher named Rev. Perry Winkle.

When my former partner was pregnant with our daughter, she assigned me to pick a name. I came up with five, wanting the names to be unique, aesthetic, and in some way meaningful. They were:

• Najam Nadira ("rare star", "precious star")
• Amala Levana ("hopeful moon")
• Ceres Ananda ("fertile bliss", "growing bliss")
• Tifareth Viridis ("beautiful green", "balanced green")
• Grace Katharine (okay, no special meaning here, but a longstanding preference from the first time I ever answered the question, "What would you name your child?" A son, by that reckoning, would have been Shaw LaRocque, named after members of King Diamond's band.)

Grace Katharine was rejected because my partner felt it had too much association to a former girlfriend, my high school sweetheart. I suppose that's fair. Or, rather, I can see how that works.

But the others were rejected on the grounds that they were too unusual. Our daughter would be teased and beaten for having an Arabic-sounding name, or for having a hippie name, or whatever. So my partner proposed the name "Emma Claire", which was altogether too common for me. (Indeed, "Emma" was among the top ten names for girls in 2002, as it turns out.) I suggested a compromise: Emma Grace as the first name, and de Cleyre as the middle. My partner agreed to the name, allegedly as a stand-by in case I didn't come up with anything else. I tried, but within a few days I discovered that "stand-by" was the code word for "the name we're going with come hell or high water". So that's how it worked out.

Of course, I also came up with two absolutely hippie names—Kamea Maya and Rhythm Erthe—but neither of these did I really expect to stick. Kamea Maya was a nod to a television show, and I had already ruled out TV names. Rhythm Erthe I liked simply because it had a good sound and the second name comes from an old poem that I adore.

The name we went with derives from two Anarchists (Emma Goldman and Voltairine de Cleyre) and my maternal grandmother (Grace).

It's not that I resent my daughter's name in any way, but I just don't understand the idea of telling me to pick a name when my partner already had it in mind that nothing I picked was going to work. She already knew my philosophy on naming. What was the point, then?

I've bitched about this before ... a couple (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=161226&postcount=4) times (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=9346). Still, I just don't understand the need to give your kid a name like everyone else:

I'm ready to bargain on the name "Emma", which I would not have considered for a first name until the mother suggested it, but I highly doubt that I would get my way to name a child Emma Cleyre simply because of where the name comes from.°

But forgive me if I seek to avoid Emily, Michelle, Sydney, and so forth. The obscurity of "Tifareth" isn't so much problematic as is the fact that it would shorten to "Tif", and if there's one piece of harmony between us, it's that neither of us would wish such a moniker on a child. Were it a son, I would seek to avoid John, Bill, Ed, Mike, Mark, Jason, and other common names. Try sitting around smoking dope and drinking beer in a room where there's four of you responding to the same name ....

.... What crushes me is that a friend just called with a vote for Ceres Ananda ... thankfully, she did not suggest any names; I can't quite describe her sense of taste, though I'm somehow not surprised that her world is filled with Amys, Sherris, Alisons, Cheryls, Jamies, and other such names of common use. It's not that I have anything against any one name per se, except that as I deal with more and more common names, I start asking myself, Why not name the child TK-421?

(June 22, 2002 (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=9346))

You see? I can be wrong, sometimes.

I mean, my name is Brian. My best friends anywhere is John, Corrie, and Mo. My brother is named Drew. The mother of my child is named Jennifer. My parents have common names, Tigger's (Jennifer) parents have common names. Looking through the family, there are now at least three Jim's, a David, a Daniel, a Heidi, a Laurie, a Sue, a Chris (female), a Jeff ... I mean, Tigger has even suggested "Nicole", which name I object to on two grounds; (A) it's common, (B) we both, in our history together, slept with Nicole. (I mean, come on ....) A bunch of people I know have started to call each other random names in order to break the monotony: there's The Goat (a friend of a friend), Doctor Nick, Wiz, J-Love, A-B-A (Abie-ay), Dragon, Jhereg (despite my Sciforums handle, that's me), Coriander, Pooh, Tigger, Piglet, Eeyore, Alley Cat, and "Lester" (don't ask, it's a long story).

My fantasy football league? Brian, Drew, Chris, Brandon, Abe, Scott, Trevor, Dave, Tony, Sharon. (Sharon has no funny nickname yet, I don't know if Chris has one, and Scott's pet name comes from another social circle with which I am not acquainted.)

We even have a "Slim Shady" in our midst (Bob).

(September 19, 2002 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=161226&postcount=4))

Oh, and it turns out that Chris' nickname was, and still is to this day, Spic.

I just don't see what's so wrong about giving a child a name that actually means something. Hell, a friend of mine, a theologian, gave her two daughters four names. First name, middle name, second middle name, and family name. And it was the second middle names that caught everyone's attention, as "Bringer of Light" and "Bringer of Joy" appear on the birth certificates. Absolutely beautiful.

[madanthonywayne]

It's not that I resent my daughter's name in any way, but I just don't understand the idea of telling me to pick a name when my partner already had it in mind that nothing I picked was going to work. She already knew my philosophy on naming. What was the point, then?
For some reason, women love to do that. I don't know how many times I've had this conversation with my wife:
Me: So, where do you want to eat tonight?
Her: Oh, I don't care, where ever you do.
Me: All right then, how about Red Lobster.
Her: No. That doesn't sound good.
Me: All right, how about Outback. They've got pretty good steak...
Her: No. I don't think so...
Me: Well, then where do you want to go?
Her: Oh, I don't care, where ever.
Me: Alright, how about chinese?
Her: No, I'm not in the mood.
Me: Um, Italian?
Her: No.....
Me: Seriously, where exactly do you want to go?
Her: I told you, I don't care. Just pick someplace!
It's like a game. They want you to pretend you're making the decision when, in fact, they really want you to show your skill in picking the place (or thing) they want without making them tell you.

[EmmZ]

Emma's a good sturdy name ;)

My friend called her son Cameron (meaning hooked nose). Now he's all grown up and decided to change the spelling of the name from the Scottish spelling to the Persian Kamran because it has more meaning (prosperous).

[Fraggle Rocker]

It's one of those jokes I'm hesitant to call true, except it's so well within the bounds of possibility. To the other, my grandfather once attended a preacher named Rev. Perry Winkle.There was a very famous and beloved lady in Texas named Ima Hogg.Grace Katharine (okay, no special meaning here. . . .
Grace means good will (Latin origin) and Katharine means purity (Greek). Actually the name was first used in its Russian form, Ekatrina, but it was hellenicized by a culture that revered everything Greek.Kamea Maya was a nod to a television show. . . .I presume it was a play on Hawaii's first King, Kamehameha.

[Orleander]

For some reason, women love to do that. I don't know how many times I've had this conversation with my wife:
Me: So, where do you want to eat tonight?
Her: Oh, I don't care, where ever you do.
Me: All right then, how about Red Lobster.
Her: No. That doesn't sound good.
Me: All right, how about Outback. They've got pretty good steak...
Her: No. I don't think so...
Me: Well, then where do you want to go?
Her: Oh, I don't care, where ever.
Me: Alright, how about chinese?
Her: No, I'm not in the mood.
Me: Um, Italian?
Her: No.....
Me: Seriously, where exactly do you want to go?
Her: I told you, I don't care. Just pick someplace!
It's like a game. They want you to pretend you're making the decision when, in fact, they really want you to show your skill in picking the place (or thing) they want without making them tell you.

change the Her to Him and you have nailed the conversation my husband and I have every weekend. Now when he asks me, I say "turn this car around and take me home. I have no problem making bologna sandwiches for supper"

[Fraggle Rocker]

I once knew a guy named Gene Poole.

[John99]

That's good for having someone form a strong personal identity at an early age. :rolleyes:

i would prefer not to name my next child. i would much rather have the child name himself when he is old enough to speak of course...or herself but moreso for a boy.

[Fraggle Rocker]

i would prefer not to name my next child. i would much rather have the child name himself when he is old enough to speak of course...or herself but moreso for a boy.In the large families of the past every child needed a name so he would know when people were talking to him instead of somebody else. I think there are a couple of years of that before a child becomes old enough to do justice to the freedom to name herself.

I'm sure we're all curious as to why you think that freedom is less appropriate for a girl.

Haven't there been cultures--and perhaps some still exist--in which a person is given a name but gets to choose another as a rite of passage into adulthood?

[Ganymede]

Yes, but it seems they're going out of their way to not assimilate.

Completely stunning. I don't think you realize how ignorant and bigoted this statement is. Who are you or anyone to question what someone names their child. If find it incredibly revealing that you believe Blacks go out of their way not to assimilate by naming their kids Sheniqua. By utilizing your logic it's safe to conclude that Sarah Palin is going out of her way to not assimilate too, since she named her kids Track, Willow, Piper and Trigg. How many people do you know with those names? It's a fact that names like Shanequa, LaQuanda are more common then Track, Willow, Piper and Trig. So in the end, it's Sarah Palin who really hates America AMRITE?


/checkmate:)

[MacGyver1968]

There's a guy in my company named "Peter Johnson". I can help but snicker everytime I say his name.

[Ganymede]

The black community in America feel they are outside of the main culture so they reflect that by naming their children with non-American names and also referring themselves as as subculture by classifying themselves as African-Americans.

Celebrities also name their kids stupid names:

http://www.hollywire.com/lists/when-celebrity-baby-naming-goes-bad/

Bullshit, 90% of the most prominent Blacks in American history all had European names. Martin Luther King, Booker T. Washington, Fredrick Douglas, Lewis Latimer, George Washington Carver, Rosa Parks, Emmit Teal, Medgar Evars just to name a few. The ignorance in this thread is mortifying. Also, please explain to me what's an American name? If it's not native American, then it's not a American name. Your mixing up American names with European names.

[Orleander]

Booker is a European name?

[Ganymede]

Booker is a European name?

Indeed it is.

http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Booker-places-origin.ashx

[Fraggle Rocker]

Booker is a European name?Many given names are co-opted surnames, and Booker T. Washington is an example. So are Jefferson Davis, Jackson Browne, Wilson Pickett. So are all the Madisons toddling around today, since it's been one of the most popular baby girl's names in recent years. You can bet that any name ending in -son was originally a surname, duh!

People often give their baby the surname of a beloved politician or other celebrity. Roosevelt Grier was a big football star back in my day, and lots of kids were named Lincoln. Aren't there some Kennedys? Reagans?

I'm sure there are a few Presleys, Lennons and McCartney's out there. Probably some Eastwoods and Norrises and maybe even a Schwarzenegger or two. :)

In America I wouldn't be surprised to meet a Hershey or a McDonald.

[madanthonywayne]

Bullshit, 90% of the most prominent Blacks in American history all had European names. Martin Luther King, Booker T. Washington, Fredrick Douglas, Lewis Latimer, George Washington Carver, Rosa Parks, Emmit Teal, Medgar Evars just to name a few. That's because the fad for wierd names didn't come around until, I don't know, the sixties or seventies.

[Nasor]

People often give their baby the surname of a beloved politician or other celebrity. Roosevelt Grier was a big football star back in my day, and lots of kids were named Lincoln. Aren't there some Kennedys? Reagans?
This (ongoing) trend is especially annoying because it results in first names that don't indicate the gender of the person.

[joepistole]

Getting back to the OP I think these names were part of the getting back to African roots movement of a few decades back. I am white, I cannot imagine the descrimination some of these folks experienced...growing up thinking that you were less intelligent because of your race...feeling inferior.

We need to get past that stage and I think we are. In the overall scheme of things this is not going to matter much in the long term. Who cares what people want call themselves as long as they are upright individuals.

[Nasor]

Completely stunning. I don't think you realize how ignorant and bigoted this statement is. Who are you or anyone to question what someone names their child. If find it incredibly revealing that you believe Blacks go out of their way not to assimilate by naming their kids Sheniqua. By utilizing your logic it's safe to conclude that Sarah Palin is going out of her way to not assimilate too, since she named her kids Track, Willow, Piper and Trigg. How many people do you know with those names? It's a fact that names like Shanequa, LaQuanda are more common then Track, Willow, Piper and Trig. So in the end, it's Sarah Palin who really hates America AMRITE?


/checkmate:)
I really hate Palin, but one doesn't have to resort to "she doesn't want to fit in" as an explanation for her naming her kids as she did, since "Trigg," "Willow" and "Track" are already-existing names/words that have been in use for centuries and have meanings. I might think they're stupid-sounding (and in fact, I do) but I can at least appreciate that she chose those names for a reason other than simply wanting to be weird.

"Shanequa", on the other hand, is entirely made up and has no meaning. If someone gives their kids a weird name that doesn't actually mean anything or have any significance, I'm not sure how to explain it other than wanting to be different for the sake of different.

Getting back to the OP I think these names were part of the getting back to African roots movement of a few decades back.
That explanation would be much more convincing to me if they were using genuine African names, or African words, or anything that had any meaning or significance. Instead, most of them seem to be entirely made-up and devoid of meaning.

[The Esotericist]

please do note the disclaimer at the end of the article, for fun. . .

Federal Judge: Enough With the Stupid Names (http://thepeoplesnewsonline.com/2008/03/02/federal-judge-enough-with-the-stupid-names/)

[Fraggle Rocker]

That's because the fad for wierd names didn't come around until, I don't know, the sixties or seventies.Texas Attorney General "Big Jim" Hogg named his daugher Ima in 1882. He did not invent the name Ima, he got it from a poem his brother wrote. Nonetheless, he had to be aware that he was setting a World Record For Giving Your Baby A Crappy Name and 127 years later I'm not sure that anyone has yet stolen it from him. One of America's most beloved philanthropists, she always signed her name illegibly and went by I. Hogg.This (ongoing) trend is especially annoying because it results in first names that don't indicate the gender of the person.You mean like Shawn, Marion, Pat, Jo, Bobbi, Robin, Carol, Marty and Shannon?

In Spanish they're rather casual about it when doling out names with religious connotations. I had a female friend named Rosario, which is a masculine noun, "Rosary". California actor A Martinez's first starring role on TV was on "Santa Barbara" as the character Cruz, a feminine noun, "Cross." He goes by "A" (no period) because his name is Adolfo and he wanted to distinguish himself from his father and grandfather--talk about a name with no gender clue.

"Is A Martinez here?" "Yes, I'm a Martinez, I'm Bob Martinez." "Oh yeah, and I'm a Martinez too, I'm Gloria Martinez. Which Martinez do you want?" "No, I want A Martinez." "Well take your pick!"I really hate Palin, but one doesn't have to resort to "she doesn't want to fit in" as an explanation for her naming her kids as she did, since "Trigg," "Willow" and "Track" are already-existing names/words that have been in use for centuries and have meanings. I might think they're stupid-sounding (and in fact, I do) but I can at least appreciate that she chose those names for a reason other than simply wanting to be weird.Oh yeah? Those names are less weird than Shanequa just because they are real words? What do the rest of you think? If I name my kid "Refrigerator," it's okay then?"Shanequa", on the other hand, is entirely made up and has no meaning. If someone gives their kids a weird name that doesn't actually mean anything or have any significance, I'm not sure how to explain it other than wanting to be different for the sake of different.It was a fad among show business people in the 1960s, especially rock-and-rollers. Grace Slick has a daughter named China (she thought of naming her God and that persists as an urban legend although she changed her mind) and Cher's daughter Chastity now calls herself Chaz.

And who can forget Frank Zappa's daughter Moon Unit and son Dweezil? The hospital refused to put "Dweezil" on his birth certificate so his birth name was Ian Donald Calvin Euclid Zappa. The family called him Dweezil and when he became old enough to realize that was not his legal name he insisted on making it so. Obviously he had no bad feelings about the name.

These days in the USA we encounter so many people with foreign names that I don't see why anyone bats an eyelash at a made-up name that at least conforms to English phonetics. Many Chinese, Arabic, Vietnamese, Persian and Korean names are pretty hard to pronounce. At least I can say "Shanequa" and get it right.Instead, most of them seem to be entirely made-up and devoid of meaning.Richard and Katherine Mather named their son Increase. He passed the favor along and named his son Cotton. Is that a whole lot better?

[nietzschefan]

Texas Attorney General "Big Jim" Hogg named his daugher Ima in 1882. He did not invent the name Ima, he got it from a poem his brother wrote. Nonetheless, he had to be aware that he was setting a World Record For Giving Your Baby A Crappy Name and 127 years later I'm not sure that anyone has yet stolen it from him.

There is at least one Mike Hawk running around in Canada...

[Fraggle Rocker]

There is at least one Mike Hawk running around in Canada.The cot-caught merger is primarily a northeastern U.S. phenomenon and is not widespread in Canada. I.e., cot/caught, don/dawn, sod/sawed, chock/chalk, dodder/daughter, holler/hauler, etc., are not homophones to most Canadian speakers. So they don't pronounce "Mike Hawk" the same as "my cock."

[nietzschefan]

The cot-caught merger is primarily a northeastern U.S. phenomenon and is not widespread in Canada. I.e., cot/caught, don/dawn, sod/sawed, chock/chalk, dodder/daughter, holler/hauler, etc., are not homophones to most Canadian speakers. So they don't pronounce "Mike Hawk" the same as "my cock."

Wow Fraggle is actually wrong for once. Yes we Canadians do say it like that. You can even pause like 7 seconds between "Mike" and "Hawk" and it's actually even more funny.

I was wrong also, I just learned from my source (Shorty) the guy's name from her middle school was even worse. Mike Hunt. Yes the way it is "said" in Canada, is funny from Newfoundland to Vancouver.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Wow Fraggle is actually wrong for once. Yes we Canadians do say it like that.Sorry, I guess I wasn't paying attention when I was working in Vancouver and Toronto. However, I double-checked the geographical chart in the Wikipedia article and it agreed with me. It said there are a few cities in Canada where the cot/caught merger has taken place, but not many. It's not standard even in the USA.Mike Hunt. Yes the way it is "said" in Canada, is funny from Newfoundland to Vancouver.I think that's universal throughout the anglophone world. Most guys with that name probably go by "Michael," "Red" or "Shorty." ;)

[nietzschefan]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't paying attention when I was working in Vancouver and Toronto. However, I double-checked the geographical chart in the Wikipedia article and it agreed with me. It said there are a few cities in Canada where the cot/caught merger has taken place, but not many. It's not standard even in the USA.I think that's universal throughout the anglophone world. Most guys with that name probably go by "Michael," "Red" or "Shorty." ;)

Heh well Wiki is never wrong right? ;) There are actually "few" Canadian cities, period.

People in Vancouver often sound Californian actually (certain sayings anyway). Toronto has a very broad range, natives (born/raised) actually speak about the most middle of the road Canadian accent possible. People cannot tell I am Albertan and would have never guessed it. The accent, colloquialisms, culture is very similar from the interior of B.C, all the way to Nova Scotia. Quebec exempted as it always is in all things...

I find it very very funny that many Americans seem to think we all talk like we are from Newfoundland, with their very distinct "Aboot" and lazy way of shortening up words.

I blame Bob and Doug Mackenzie and Southpark.

[Fraggle Rocker]

People in Vancouver often sound Californian actually (certain sayings anyway).Yes, there is a Pacific Coast Sprachbund. It goes back at least to the 1960s when Vancouver produced several acid-rock and protest-rock bands and was affectionately known as San Francisco North.Quebec exempted as it always is in all things.Yes, and they have their own dialect of French. Céline Dion made several lovely albums in French before the Hollywood machine discovered her and taught her to sing formula pop ditties in English.I find it very very funny that many Americans seem to think we all talk like we are from Newfoundland, with their very distinct "Aboot" and lazy way of shortening up words. I blame Bob and Doug Mackenzie and Southpark.Why do they need the dialect since we've learned from watching South Park that Canadian heads have such a unique manner of articulation during speech.;)

Entertainers, especially comedians, need a shorthand way of identifying foreigners, so they develop linguistic caricatures from their most extreme dialects. We used to laugh about the fact that until very recently, many American characters on British TV shows spoke like they were from the South.

[Nasor]

You mean like Shawn, Marion, Pat, Jo, Bobbi, Robin, Carol, Marty and Shannon?
Shawn=male
Marion=so far as I can tell, another example of a last name that because a genderless first name
Pat=short for Patrick or Patricia or something else that probably indicates gender
Jo=not a name I'm aware of, but I'll take your word for it
Bobbi=not a name I'm aware of, but I'll take your word for it
Robin=female
Carol=female
Marty=male
Shannon=female

Anyway, I realize that there's no iron-clad reason why first names need to denote gender. I just think that the ability of first names to denote gender seems like a useful trait, and it's a shame to lose it.
Oh yeah? Those names are less weird than Shanequa just because they are real words?
I didn't say that they aren't weird, I said that I can imagine reasons for picking them as names other than a simple desire to be weird. I don't need to resort to "they just didn't want to be like everyone else" as an explanation.

[Orleander]

Shawn=male (Shawn Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Johnson) - female)
Marion=so far as I can tell, another example of a last name that because a genderless first name Marion Morrison aka john Wayne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_wayne)
Pat=short for Patrick or Patricia or something else that probably indicates gender (yes, but Pat doesn't denote gender)
Jo=not a name I'm aware of, but I'll take your word for it (short for Joanne, Josephine, Joseph.
Bobbi=not a name I'm aware of, but I'll take your word for it (short for Robert and Roberta. I have an Aunt Bobbi and there was that rather famous assassinated Kennedy)
Robin=female (Robin Williams - male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_williams))
Carol=female (Carol O'Connor - male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_O%27Connor), and a couple Romanians Kings)
Marty=male (I went to school with a female Marty, as does my daughter)
Shannon=female (Shannon Hoon - male) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_Hoontp://)
...

I worked with a guy named Erin. After 4 sons, his mother desperately wanted a girl and instead of naming him Aaron, she chose the female version. He was always explaining it, especially when he showed up for job interviews.

I had a male boss named Kelly, males and female co workers both named Jerry.

I know Teresa who married Terrance, both known as Terry. She reverted to Teresa, which made for a lot of paperwork and confusion in her family.

[Nasor]

Of course there are examples of people not following the normal gender name conventions, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people named "Shawn" are male, etc.

[TBodillia]

Back in the day, I used to be in sales. I usually dealt only with couples and usually was given only basic information on a little card. I always hated when the card had two...well, cross gender...names. Kim & Terry is the couple that stands out in my mind: He was Kim, and she Terry.

In the Army, my closest friend was a guy named Stacy. I know a man Terry that married a woman Terry. I went to school with a guy named Kelly and dated a girl named Kelly. There are just too many "gender ambiguous" names.

Shawn, Marion, Pat, Jo, Bobbi, Robin, Carol, Marty, Shannon... if you do a Google search of images you'll see how most of those names cross gender lines. Bobbi is usually the feminine version of Bobby and Jo is the same for Joe.

And, Bobbi Jo used to be a very popular name for southern girls. Petticoat Junction, a late 60s TV sitcom, was centered partly around three girls: Billie Jo, Bobbie Jo, & Bettie Jo.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Shawn=maleShawn Colvin, a famous female singer. Boys are more likely to be named Sean, but Shawn Phillips was a moderately famous singer in the 1970s.Marion. . . .genderlessI cheated: Marian is feminine and Marion is masculine. Actor John Wayne's real name, the most masculine guy of his generation, was Marion. It's like Frances/Francis.Robin=femaleRobin Williams, a famous male actor.Carol=femaleCarol O'Connor, the male actor who played Archie Bunker in one of America's most beloved TV sitcoms, "All in the Family."Marty=maleI personally have known half a dozen women named Marty and not one man, although we all loved Marty Feldman the comic actor.Shannon=femaleShannon Hoon, the male singer in Blind Melon. Anyway, I realize that there's no iron-clad reason why first names need to denote gender. I just think that the ability of first names to denote gender seems like a useful trait, and it's a shame to lose it.It's hardly universal among the world's cultures. In Chinese given names the first morpheme is chosen to identify a generation and it applies to both girls and boys. The second morpheme can be anything the parents desire. I think I already mentioned my old Chinese girlfriend. She and her brother were born during the Japanese occupation of Manchuria and they were each named "I remember [name of one of the provinces that comprise Manchuria]."

[Nasor]

Yeah, I was pretty sure you were going to come up with a list of people whose names don't follow the gender conventions, but that doesn't change the fact that the conventions exist and are useful. If you tell someone "I want you to meet my friend Carol," they will probably assume that your friend is female, Carol O'Connor notwithstanding. See my last post.